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Mother believes her 19 yr old son died from complications of flu shot - Page 5

post #81 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

This is one anecdote.  We cannot draw conclusions from one anecdote.  That does not mean I disbelieve the mother though.  Who  am I to disbelieve her?  The arrogance!  

 

 

Just now going through some parts of this thread I missed and this stuck out at me.  I know chickabiddy already addressed this, but this argument always bothers me.  It almost feels like an accusation, like I am calling other mothers liars.   Fact is, giving birth does not come with a medical degree.  I can certainly believe a mother when they say X happened sometime after receiving a vaccine, but I don't have to believe that the vaccine caused X just because they say so or think it did.  That doesn't make me arrogant. 

post #82 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

  Fact is, giving birth does not come with a medical degree.  I can certainly believe a mother when they say X happened sometime after receiving a vaccine, but I don't have to believe that the vaccine caused X just because they say so or think it did.  That doesn't make me arrogant. 

 

Well you certainly do come off as showing you are superior in your thought (that vaccine reactions can not occur) that it can not be true, and that is part of what arrogant means. 

 

Stating a mother does not get a medical degree by giving birth is true, it is also true that having a medical degree does not make one infallible and your snippy remarks comes off as if a mother is wrong because she does not have the degree you hold to such high esteem. 

 

I have a ped I love, he hold to the understanding the mother knows her child best, not him, and he acknowledges medicine is FALLIBLE and also he is, the degree does not change that.

 

Even the CDC acknowledges it, they state reactions DO occur. Someone, sadly has to be in that percentage that has a reaction and it can be severe or cause death - that is a fact. Medicine (be a Dr or a medication or a vaccine) is fallible, not acknowledging it is arrogant-IMO

 

Instead of being so insulating why couldn't you acknowledge it can happen? We do know that is true.

Kathymuggle doesn't know, I don't know and frankly you and chickyabiddy don't know it either.

 

Tea you have stated your child is young so you still have time, we should hope you never have your mothering questioned but if it should ever happen, wouldn't it be nice if someone believed you?


Edited by serenbat - 12/10/13 at 9:05am
post #83 of 85

There a big difference between saying it can't possibly be a reaction and saying that just because it happened right after a vaccination doesn't mean it is definitely a reaction….. 

 

The one surety about medicine in my experience is that nothing is really that sure - they work on best guesses, and most likely outcomes more often than most of us would like to admit! ;) 

post #84 of 85

Nobody is questioning this mother's mothering.  Some of us are questioning her medical diagnostic skills.

 

It is possible that this young man died from a reaction to the vaccine.  It is also possible that he died of completely unrelated reasons.  Without an autopsy, we probably will never know (we may not have known even with an autopsy).

 

It is not arrogant to say that the mother doesn't know either why her son died.  She doesn't.

post #85 of 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

Nobody is questioning this mother's mothering.  Some of us are questioning her medical diagnostic skills.

 

It is possible that this young man died from a reaction to the vaccine.  It is also possible that he died of completely unrelated reasons.  Without an autopsy, we probably will never know (we may not have known even with an autopsy).

 

It is not arrogant to say that the mother doesn't know either why her son died.  She doesn't.

:yeah

 

It's incredibly sad, but sometimes these things just happen.   Here's a story from this year of a teenager who collapsed a day after feeling sick while at a music festival.  An autopsy showed there were no illegal substances and her death is unexplained.  Within the same week a second teenager also collapsed and died at a music festival.  No explanation.  Had these teenagers been given any vaccine beforehand, the parents would almost certainly blame the vaccine for their deaths.  

 

James Houghton http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/08/28/student-james-houghton-dies-leeds-festival_n_3829038.html

 

Esme Blore http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/esme-blore-death-parents-teenager-2235189

 

"The parents of a teenage girl who died after becoming ill at Reading Festival say they are "in limbo" as they wait for answers about their daughter's death.

Seventeen-year-old Esme Blore, from Stevington near Bedford, is thought to have begun feeling unwell as she joined thousands of music fans at Reading Festival on Saturday.

She was taken to hospital in Reading and later discharged. But she collapsed after returning home on Sunday, and was rushed to Northampton General Hospital where she later died.

Tragedy also struck at Reading's sister festival in Leeds over the weekend, where 19-year-old guitarist James Houghton collapsed and died.

Police are investigating the circumstances surrounding his "unexplained" death, but it is not being treated as suspicious.

James, from Hartlepool, was due to take up a place at Manchester University next month." 

 

As I said, an autopsy was conducted on Esme and no cause of death could be determined. 

"A 17-year-old girl who died after attending the Reading Festival had not taken any illegal substances.

Esme Blore, of Stevington in Bedfordshire, died in hospital in August.

A post-mortem examination carried out at the time proved inconclusive. Northamptonshire Police said toxicology reports showed she had not taken an illegal substances.

An inquest into her death was opened and adjourned in September."  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-24909727

These stories are all equally sad, but unexplained deaths in teenagers unfortunately happen, even in teenagers that didn't recently receive an HPV or Flu vaccine.  So you can see why many of us want/need more information before just assuming that unexplained teenage death sometime after a vaccine = vaccine must have caused it. 

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