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Brand New Pertussis Study: Let Us Discuss - Page 2

post #21 of 66
"IF you read what I posted I did say - Dr's areN'T (are not) telling patients to stop the vaccine, they simply can't because another part of the govt hasn't given the recommendation to do so, and yet ANOTHER part has to check into the effectiveness and go through yet another list of procedures to (if they do) withdraw the vaccines - this is all time IF it even happens!
​How you jumped to me saying that Dr should tell their patients to stop is beyond me! The rest of the sentence makes it clear, they can't do that."

Ah Seren except you only just edited your post to reflect what it says now. Originally you didn't have "areN'T" in your post but I'm pretty certain we all know what you intended to say.
Considering how much it bothers you when you think other members are twisting your words I'm not sure why you would purposefully do that back to Teacosy.

I agree that the biggest concern is for those infants who are too young to be fully covered by the DTaP, but short of never leaving the house for those early months I'm not certain there is any other method of protection.
Edited by TCMoulton - 12/1/13 at 1:33pm
post #22 of 66
Thread Starter 
Well Breastfeeding & Prenatal Tdap are more reliable as protection IMO, as well as basic respiratory health measures like 'maintaining a smoke free home' (Sounds simple/obvious but I know fully crunchy MDC types who have not been able to accomplish this because of uncooperative spouses/relatives. Even my own child was exposed b/c I occasionally wanted to visit my mother.)

However cocooning seems like a good add on. I am too lazy to grab the study, but there is one that compares reduction in cases from Cocooning vs. Prenatal Tdap & seems like they would work better together.

The very knowledge that some Vax allows for asymptomatic transmission is an important advance tho.
post #23 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinahx View Post



However cocooning seems like a good add on. I am too lazy to grab the study, but there is one that compares reduction in cases from Cocooning vs. Prenatal Tdap & seems like they would work better together.

The very knowledge that some Vax allows for asymptomatic transmission is an important advance tho.

cocooning doesn't work if you feel when you vax you are protected and IMO IRL I find most hold this thought

 

also I fail to see why and I wish the money was throw at public service ads instead, but taking freshly born, day old babies out to eat and to the grocery store and Target really isn't a smart idea yet I see this ALL THE TIME!                       so worried, go vac, the push of false hope vs how about so worried, your new born does not need to socialize!

 

the transmission thing with this vaccine is deeply concerning, even if you are "trying" to cocoon and have sibling, I see so many potential problems

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post

"IF you read what I posted I did say - Dr's areN'T (are not) telling patients to stop the vaccine, they simply can't because another part of the govt hasn't given the recommendation to do so, and yet ANOTHER part has to check into the effectiveness and go through yet another list of procedures to (if they do) withdraw the vaccines - this is all time IF it even happens!
​How you jumped to me saying that Dr should tell their patients to stop is beyond me! The rest of the sentence makes it clear, they can't do that."

Ah Seren except you only just edited your post to reflect what it says now. Originally you didn't have "areN'T" in your post but I'm pretty certain we all know what you intended to say.
Considering how much it bothers you when you think other members are twisting your words I'm not sure why you would purposefully do that back to Teacosy.

I agree that the biggest concern is for those infants who are too young to be fully covered by the DTaP, but short of never leaving the house for those early months I'm not certain there is any other method of protection.

perhaps you failed to get the meaning of the rest of the sentence you are so worked up over and fail to see that in the following sentences I states how they can not tell their patients 

post #24 of 66

The current Pertussis vaccine protects against severe symptoms but not transmission.  The prior version of the Pertussis vaccine (whole-cell pertussis) protected against both. This is well known and widely discussed in the medical literature around Pertussis.  Pertussis rates have been rising since the late 1990s when whole-cell Pertussis vaccines went off the market and were switched for the current Pertussis vaccine.  At the time doctors hoped that herd immunity would be maintained by the new vaccine but that has not been the case.

post #25 of 66
I know that a lot of you who vaccinate on schedule believe in cocooning. Has this new study challenged this belief? Given that the aP vaccine isn't preventing transmission, can we still fairly call pertussis a "vaccine-preventable disease?"
post #26 of 66
The result are worrying. However even the currently used vaccine has been shown to reduce risk of pertussis (8-23 times is a number I remember), and also severity, so it's not worthless.

And the more reactive vaccine worked better. I'm not sure I'd be keen to go back to that given the side effects, but since it did work then, yes, whooping cough is a VPD.
post #27 of 66
Many adults born before 1990 have had the whole-cell pertussis vaccine and studies have shown it often gives lifetime immunity as well as providing barriers to transmission. Personally I think the current rise in pertussis is due to the weakening of herd immunity after the switch away from the more effective vaccine. I actually dislike the trend towards weaker, "safer", acellular vaccines and wish there was more choice available on the drug market. Some of us just don't have any adverse reactions to vaccines and I think the benefits of lifetime vaccination far outweigh the risks for us. My dad had Pertussis as a child and it had lifelong adverse respiratory effects. I wouldn't wish it on my kids.
Edited by naimah - 12/15/13 at 9:19am
post #28 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

The result are worrying. However even the currently used vaccine has been shown to reduce risk of pertussis (8-23 times is a number I remember), and also severity, so it's not worthless.



And the more reactive vaccine worked better. I'm not sure I'd be keen to go back to that given the side effects, but since it did work then, yes, whooping cough is a VPD.

 



I'd be OK with that position, so long as pediatricians are honest about it. "Pertussis is technically a vaccine-preventable disease, but only if we use the whole-cell version of the vaccine. And we can't because we no longer have access to it."

Somehow I can't envision this conversation taking place in most exam rooms.
post #29 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post


I'd be OK with that position, so long as pediatricians are honest about it. "Pertussis is technically a vaccine-preventable disease, but only if we use the whole-cell version of the vaccine. And we can't because we no longer have access to it."

Somehow I can't envision this conversation taking place in most exam rooms.

Honestly, a lot of pediatricians/PCPs aren't that bright. Otherwise they'd be in a higher-paying specialty. And the current formulation of the pertussis vaccine does work for individuals in terms of protecting them from pertussis. It just doesn't help much with herd immunity.
post #30 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by naimah View Post


Honestly, a lot of pediatricians/PCPs aren't that bright. Otherwise they'd be in a higher-paying specialty. And the current formulation of the pertussis vaccine does work for individuals in terms of protecting them from pertussis. It just doesn't help much with herd immunity.

Wow.

 

So, these brainless people somehow got into med school and residency, but just aren't that bright?

 

Maybe, just maybe, they are doing something that they love and they didn't just go into medicine for the money.  Sheesh.

post #31 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chknlovr View Post
 

Wow.

 

So, these brainless people somehow got into med school and residency, but just aren't that bright? until you are forced to step down! 

 

Maybe, just maybe, they are doing something that they love and they didn't just go into medicine for the money.  Sheesh.

yes and everyone is just so ethical! 

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2529541/Rogue-scientist-FAKED-federally-funded-AIDS-research-spiking-rabbit-blood.html

 

 

http://www.universityherald.com/articles/6450/20131226/isu-researcher-produced-fake-aids-vaccine-results-that-raised-19-million-in-federal-grants-for-the-school.htm

post #32 of 66
Yeah, stay at home moms aren't that bright either, otherwise they'd be in a job that paid them at all. Brilliant logic!
post #33 of 66

What in the world does that have to do with anything?  

 

A PhD scientist researcher fakes results.  Obviously bad.  Horrible. You do realize that this person was not a physician, right?  But what does that have to do with primary care physicians?

post #34 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Yeah, stay at home moms aren't that bright either, otherwise they'd be in a job that paid them at all. Brilliant logic!

 

Seriously.  It's a sad statement that some people measure a person's intelligence and worth by their salary.
post #35 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chknlovr View Post
 

What in the world does that have to do with anything?  

 

A PhD scientist researcher fakes results.  Obviously bad.  Horrible. You do realize that this person was not a physician, right?  YES! well aware of it! It's an example of the "OVERALL" medical community and how we hold them up to a high bar and there are bad apples, sadly you only hear of a few of them. But what does that have to do with primary care physicians?

Are you aware there are bad PCP, ped, etc? yes, there are - I took naimah statement to say a lot, NOT meaning ALL. 

post #36 of 66
I have a good number of friends from college who went on to become doctors. The smart ones are specialists, the not-so-smart ones are PCPs. Several of the smart ones love pediatrics and are pediatric specialists, not PCPs. I've talked to the PCPs are they are a lot less up on the vaccine literature compared to the specialists.

Unfortunately the stuff about SAHMs is also true, at least on average.
Edited by naimah - 12/27/13 at 8:56am
post #37 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by naimah View Post

I have a good number of friends from college who went on to become doctors. The smart ones are specialists, the not-so-smart ones are PCPs. Several of the smart ones love pediatrics and are pediatric specialists, not PCPs. I've talked to the PCPs are they are a lot less up on the vaccine literature compared to the specialists.

Unfortunately the stuff about SAHMs is also true, at least on average.

Oh, boy.

 

Break out the popcorn, folks.

post #38 of 66
Quote:
Quote:
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chknlovr View Post
 

What in the world does that have to do with anything?  

 

A PhD scientist researcher fakes results.  Obviously bad.  Horrible. You do realize that this person was not a physician, right?  YES! well aware of it! It's an example of the "OVERALL" medical community and how we hold them up to a high bar and there are bad apples, sadly you only hear of a few of them. But what does that have to do with primary care physicians?

 

What in the world does that have to do with anything?  

 

A PhD scientist researcher fakes results.  Obviously bad.  Horrible. You do realize that this person was not a physician, right?  YES! well aware of it! It's an example of the "OVERALL" medical community and how we hold them up to a high bar and there are bad apples, sadly you only hear of a few of them. But what does that have to do with primary care physicians?

 

 

I honestly have no idea what you are trying to say.

 

 

 

post #39 of 66
Ok now we are in troll territory.
post #40 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by naimah View Post

I have a good number of friends from college who went on to become doctors. The smart ones are specialists, the not-so-smart ones are PCPs. Several of the smart ones love pediatrics and are pediatric specialists, not PCPs. I've talked to the PCPs are they are a lot less up on the vaccine literature compared to the specialists.

Unfortunately the stuff about SAHMs is also true, at least on average.

lol.  You are just asking for it now...privateeyes.gif

 

In any event…most doctors are bright.  I just don't think you can be a doctor without being bright.  I don't think all PCP are up on vaccine research.  Medicine is a huge field, and a primary care physician needs to have a very, very wide (not necessarily deep) knowledge base.  I don't really expect a PCP to be master of anything, really, except advocating for their patients and knowing when they are in over their heads.  They are the Jack of all trades when it comes to the medical field.  

 

Some SAHM are bright and some are not.    

 

It does not matter how bright or stupid a doctor or SAHM mother is.  It is the doctors job to give out the best advice as he sees it, and it is the parents job to decide whether to follow that advice.  Doctors are resources, parents are decision makers.  Barring incredible neglect, that is pointe finale.  


Edited by kathymuggle - 12/27/13 at 2:45pm
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