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Over a dozen people on life support in Michigan from the flu

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 

http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archive/201401/flu

 

Looks like it could be a dangerous flu this year. 

 

"More than a dozen adults and children are on life support at the University of Michigan Health System’s hospitals right now, because of flu.  Most are young and otherwise healthy...most have the H1N1 strain of flu.

And as far as hospital staff can tell, these patients either didn’t get the flu vaccine at all -- or didn’t get it in time to protect them fully.

“We are seeing the same thing we saw in 2009 and early 2010, with ICUs full of people in their 30s, 40s and 50s who need advanced life support for flu-related illness,” she says. “Except this year, protection has been available since September.”

 It appears that most of the current ICU patients have the H1N1 flu strain. This year’s regular seasonal flu vaccine protects against the most commonly circulating H1N1 strain, as well as others." 

I think I remember reading somewhere that the H1N1 flu strain is a viral descendant of the 1918 flu strain that killed mostly young healthy adults as well. 

So does this information make you worry more about the flu this year?  Do you still disagree that this year the flu vaccine benefits outweigh their risks? 

 

 


Edited by teacozy - 2/20/14 at 3:18pm
post #2 of 40
Slightly OT but I'm upset- one of my pregnant patients went to a pharmacy for a flu shot and was turned away for being pregnant! Told her she had to get it from her OBs office. ???
post #3 of 40
Most pharmacists don't want to give the Thimerisol shot to pregnant women. Didn't stop Tara over @ Red Wine & Applesauce tho.

I am interested in their definition of 'getting it in time'. What is the time lapse supposed to be?
post #4 of 40
ETA: http://www.redwineandapplesauce.com/2013/10/22/im-pregnant-but-there-were-too-many-hoops-for-my-flu-shot/

Notice, it is considered best practice for OB offices to offer it & improves uptake.
post #5 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinahx View Post

I am interested in their definition of 'getting it in time'. What is the time lapse supposed to be?

 

IIRC, I think it takes about two weeks for it to fully work.  

post #6 of 40
This has to vary by formulation tho: I'd be curious to see what it is for the MedImmune Mist.
post #7 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

Slightly OT but I'm upset- one of my pregnant patients went to a pharmacy for a flu shot and was turned away for being pregnant! Told her she had to get it from her OBs office. ???

Did they not have the preservative-free? Not every store I work at does. Or did they just not want to vaccinate a pregnant woman at all? In which case, enh. I usually ask a pregnant woman if her OB is cool with her getting the shot. If she says yes, I go with it. (Now that I think about it, my midwives have said zero to me about either the flu or the Tdap shot; I went and got both on my own.) 

post #8 of 40

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

I think I remember reading somewhere that the H1N1 flu strain is a viral descendant of the 1918 flu strain that killed mostly young healthy adults as well. 

So does this information make you worry more about the flu this year?  Do you still disagree that this year the flu vaccine benefits outweigh their risks? 

 

I'm pretty sure all the flu strains are related to one degree or another, so yes, this one is probably related to the 1918 strain, but there are probably some pretty mild strains that are equally related to it (I don't have any citations for that, though, so feel free to prove me wrong).

 

No, reading that article didn't make me any more likely to get my flu shot this year.  I'm sure for some people it does shift the balance of risk -vs- benefits, but we got H1N1 last time it was going around, so I doubt that the vaccine would offer us much protection beyond what we already have.

 

I'm not particularly impressed by the article; it spends more time pushing the vaccine than discussing details, and I'm the sort who wants details.  I would be curious to read any more informative articles that you can suggest.

post #9 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archive/201401/flu

 

“We are seeing the same thing we saw in 2009 and early 2010, with ICUs full of people in their 30s, 40s and 50s who need advanced life support for flu-related illness,” she says. “Except this year, protection has been available since September.”

 

So does this information make you worry more about the flu this year?  Do you still disagree that this year the flu vaccine benefits outweigh their risks? 

 

 

I cut down the post to highlight the points I wanted to address.

 

First off, there is some good evidence the flu vaccine is only effective for about 3-4 months.  If you got the shot in September, it could have worn off by now.  The flu traditionally peaks in February or March - getting the vaccine as early as September makes little sense.

 

Secondly, no, I am not more worried about the flu this year than any other year.  I have no idea how the stats stack up this year compared to others - but if I had to hazard a guess, I would say that nationally, and thus far,  it has been pretty mild.  

post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dinahx View Post

ETA: http://www.redwineandapplesauce.com/2013/10/22/im-pregnant-but-there-were-too-many-hoops-for-my-flu-shot/

Notice, it is considered best practice for OB offices to offer it & improves uptake.

Oh I'm aware. If I owned the practice, we'd offer it smile.gif
post #11 of 40
KM, do you have a link about the vaccine only conferring immunity for 4 months? So are we now up to biannual shots? There's that poor little boy in Oregon who died of H1N1 and was vaccinated. greensad.gif http://www.kptv.com/story/24361002/doctors-confirm-oregon-boy-5-dies-from-h1n1-virus

Still no flu shots for me or my family. It looks like where the actual science is concerned, the jury is still out:
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2010/04/new-canadian-studies-suggest-seasonal-flu-shot-increased-h1n1-risk

Meanwhile, we'll just wait our way through year after year of the usual marketing:

"This year is going to be really bad for the flu. Get your flu shot."

"OK. This year is going to be really, reeeeeeeallllly bad."

"Horrible bad. Black Plague bad. Apocalyptic."
post #12 of 40

 

Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

http://www.uofmhealth.org/news/archive/201401/flu

 

"More than a dozen adults and children are on life support at the University of Michigan Health System’s hospitals right now, because of flu.  Most are young and otherwise healthy...most have the H1N1 strain of flu.

 

I would be very interested to know what drugs they were given before they got to the point of being put on life support.

 

This article does not change my opinion on the flu or the flu vaccine. Plus, I and one of my children got H1N1 in 2009. (the illness, not the vaccine). From being exposed to us, my other child and my husband most likely gained immunity to H1N1 without getting sick.


Edited by ma2two - 1/4/14 at 10:34pm
post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post
 

 

I would be very interested to know what drugs they were given before they got to the point of being put on life support.

 

Were they given Tamiflu? Tamiflu can be dangerous. We really don't know anything else about these patients. Do we trust this news article and leave it at that? Or, are there too many unanswered questions and not enough details?

 

Turquesa, that story is devastating. What's worse is that the boy was sent home from the emergency room. I wonder if he had stayed, would he still be here?

post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

KM, do you have a link about the vaccine only conferring immunity for 4 months? So are we now up to biannual shots? There's that poor little boy in Oregon who died of H1N1 and was vaccinated. greensad.gif http://www.kptv.com/story/24361002/doctors-confirm-oregon-boy-5-dies-from-h1n1-virus
 

Here is an article, not a study.  I will see if I can dig up a study.  There is an interesting blurb on the h1n1 in it as well.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-21/news/ct-met-flu-shots-20120921_1_flu-vaccine-influenza-b-virus-flu-strains

 

ETA:  found this as well, it might be more useful:

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2013/01/studies-flu-vaccine-effectiveness-waned-over-2011-12-season

post #15 of 40
What a devastating story from Oregon!
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 
So does this information make you worry more about the flu this year?  Do you still disagree that this year the flu vaccine benefits outweigh their risks? 

NOPE!

 

Kathy - thanks for your posts! ah,,,,,,,,,,still time to vaccinate!

 

Teacozy - does this story worry you? 

There's that poor little boy in Oregon who died of H1N1 and was vaccinated. greensad.gif http://www.kptv.com/story/24361002/doctors-confirm-oregon-boy-5-dies-from-h1n1-virus
 

post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post
 

Were they given Tamiflu? Tamiflu can be dangerous. We really don't know anything else about these patients. Do we trust this news article and leave it at that? Or, are there too many unanswered questions and not enough details?

 

 

 

The little bit I watch TV or open a magazine yet I do see it ALL OVER--------- errrrrrrrrrrrr :irked 

 

Wonder what it is like to live in a country where you DON'T have to "ask your Dr" if this med or that med is "right for you"!? 

 

FEAR FEAR FEAR!!! 

 

ETA- incase anyone wants to do some reading - http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/us_flu-related_deaths.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5933a1.htm


Edited by serenbat - 1/5/14 at 5:44pm
post #18 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
 

 

Teacozy - does this story worry you? 

There's that poor little boy in Oregon who died of H1N1 and was vaccinated. greensad.gif http://www.kptv.com/story/24361002/doctors-confirm-oregon-boy-5-dies-from-h1n1-virus
 

 

Worry me in what way? The vaccine certainly didn't cause him to die.  The story is very tragic but I have never argued, nor have I ever heard a PVer argue that vaccines are 100% effective in 100% of people who receive them.   But the fact remains that most children who die from the flu have not received their flu vaccine.  We had a thread about this a couple months ago. 

post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

Worry me in what way? The vaccine certainly didn't cause him to die.  The story is very tragic but I have never argued, nor have I ever heard a PVer argue that vaccines are 100% effective in 100% of people who receive them.   But the fact remains that most children who die from the flu have not received their flu vaccine.  We had a thread about this a couple months ago. 

Really?  What gives you such certainty? Do you have first-hand knowledge of his medical history?  

How do you know that he didn't have an unusual autoimmune or inflammatory reaction to the vaccine that subsequently spiraled out of control over the next few weeks?  How do you know his immune system didn't have an unusual (or perhaps not so unusual) reaction to the flu vaccine, that left him unable to cope with the croup, if it even was croup--remember, many doctors incorrectly assume it can't be pertussis if the child was fully vaccinated, and don't even consider pertussis as a possible diagnosis. How do you know that he didn't have any underlying autoimmune disorders that might have contraindicated a flu shot?

 

Fact: you DON'T know.

 

We can't say with any certainty that he died because of the shot, but we can't say that it wasn't a causal factor, either.

 

We do know that the doctor who diagnosed croup gave him steroids to help him breathe.  That's right, steroids--which would inhibit or even shut down his ability to fight influenza, croup, pertussis, and pretty much any other virus or bacteria. So within a few weeks, an apparently healthy child was given at least one vaccine (the flu shot), maybe more, and then steroids--and then he died.  

Gee, I wonder if they gave him Tamiflu on top of everything else after they decided that he had H1N1?

 

How very unscientific of you insist on ruling out a possible factor with absolutely no evidence.  But at least you are consistent: you consistently ignore the findings by the Cochrane group that the flu shot is ineffective in children.

post #20 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

 

Worry me in what way? 

 

what a hoot! ………….and you think non-vaccers should be worried! :laugh 

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