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New Study: More autism in kids who got mercury in DTaP and Hep B vaccines

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 

http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/2047-9158-2-25.pdf

 

A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States

Quote:
Results: In phase I, it was observed that there was a significantly increased risk ratio for the incidence of ASD
reported following the Thimerosal-containing DTaP vaccine in comparison to the Thimerosal-free DTaP vaccine. In
phase II, it was observed that cases diagnosed with an ASD were significantly more likely than controls to receive
increased organic-Hg from Thimerosal-containing hepatitis B vaccine administered within the first, second, and sixth
month of life.
Conclusions: Routine childhood vaccination is an important public health tool to reduce the morbidity and
mortality associated with infectious diseases, but the present study provides new epidemiological evidence
supporting an association between increasing organic-Hg exposure from Thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines
and the subsequent risk of an ASD diagnosis.
post #2 of 40

"Using a two- phased, hypothesis-generating and hypothesis-testing, epidemiological analytical methodology in two separate data- bases, organic-Hg exposure from Thimerosal-containing childhood vaccines was determined to be associated with a subsequent diagnosis of an ASD. 

In addition, in phase II within the VSD, the present study placed special emphasis on requiring an adequate follow-up period in the analysis. Thus, the cases and controls were followed for a sufficient, evidenced-based interval of time, to ensure that they were appropriately classified with respect to their exposures and outcomes, thus helping to ensure the potential for a cause- and-effect relationship between exposure and outcome was not biased or confounded."

post #3 of 40
:lurk
post #4 of 40
More VAERS data trawling? Garbage in, garbage out. Unsurprising that it was published in "Translational Neurodegeneration", and the authors include these guys: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier
post #5 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

More VAERS data trawling? Garbage in, garbage out. Unsurprising that it was published in "Translational Neurodegeneration", and the authors include these guys: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier

How do you suggest then, that vaccine reactions be reported? I mean, you can be as pro-vaccine as you want, but you have to admit it would be helpful to have a more reliable method to track issues with vaccines, no? If vaers is "garbage", then what do we use? How can we ensure this compulsory medical procedure remains safe and/or becomes safer? I agree that it has limitations, but to dismiss it altogether is foolish. The CDC follows up on serious possible reactions, and that's a good thing. No matter how rare they might be, shouldn't they be counted?
post #6 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

More VAERS data trawling? Garbage in, garbage out. Unsurprising that it was published in "Translational Neurodegeneration", and the authors include these guys: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Geier
 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by littlec View Post


How do you suggest then, that vaccine reactions be reported? I mean, you can be as pro-vaccine as you want, but you have to admit it would be helpful to have a more reliable method to track issues with vaccines, no? If vaers is "garbage", then what do we use? How can we ensure this compulsory medical procedure remains safe and/or becomes safer? I agree that it has limitations, but to dismiss it altogether is foolish. The CDC follows up on serious possible reactions, and that's a good thing. No matter how rare they might be, shouldn't they be counted?

 

Katie, perhaps you'd like to actually join the discussion, ask questions, or offer suggestions, rather than just post snide comments? I'd bet that if you were the parent of a child who'd suffered a severe adverse reaction to a vaccine, you wouldn't appreciate comments such as the one you just posted.

 

littlec, I agree with you, except for one thing:  the CDC does not follow up on serious possible reactions.

post #7 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Katie, perhaps you'd like to actually join the discussion, ask questions, or offer suggestions, rather than just post snide comments? I'd bet that if you were the parent of a child who'd suffered a severe adverse reaction to a vaccine, you wouldn't appreciate comments such as the one you just posted.

littlec, I agree with you, except for one thing:  the CDC does not follow up on serious possible reactions.

Really? I thought I read they did. Does anyone?
post #8 of 40
The CDC actually does follow up on reports from VAERS.

I say "garbage in, garbage out" not trying to call the actual reports garbage, but as a shorthand of saying that as a data source it can be faulty, incomplete, imprecise. You can't take data like that, crunch numbers, and trust the conclusion.

When I look at the authors and see that at least two of them have had serious legal trouble and have had past research found to be unethical, that the research is published in a virtually unheard of China-based journal, and funded by a private organization that exists solely to prove that vaccinations cause autism... I'm just not impressed.

I'd make a popcorn eating face here since that's an a-ok conversation contribution but I'm on my phone. I hope that's alright.
post #9 of 40

My understanding is that the CDC only follows up on doctor and/or hospital reports to VAERS.  Many families of children who had seizure and other severe reactions to vaccines, as well as the families who won their cases in "vaccine court" have reported that NOBODY (including the CDC) ever followed up on their reports to VAERS.

 

I agree with your concerns about the authors.  But I think those issues are EVERYWHERE.  The studies showing vaccines to be safe have major design flaws, major conflicts of interest, and some of those researchers have been in serious trouble with the law as well.  Let's be honest and fair, and admit that the research is crap on both sides.


And it's not just in vaccines, or even limited to pharmaceutical products.  It's EVERYWHERE.

 

For example:
JAMA recently published news of a study, with the headline: "Coffee Hydrates as Well as Water, Study Says."

 

So I looked up the study, which actually had the headline "No Evidence of Dehydration With Moderate Coffee Intake."  Hmm, that's already different.

 

So I read the study.

They only studied men, who were already drinking 3-6 cups of coffee a day.  They divided them into two groups, and gave both groups a controlled diet, and controlled for exercise (potential dehydration).  Group 1 also got 4 cups of coffee per day, Group 2 got 4 cups of water per day.

 

Sounds fine, right?

But the controlled diet ALSO included 6 cups of water per day, for both groups.

 

What exactly are the odds that ANYONE drinking 6 cups of water per day, PLUS the 4 cups of coffee per day that they are already used to drinking, is going to be dehydrated?

Oh, and no conflicts of interest were declared (surprise surprise) BUT the study was funded by the supposedly nonprofit group, "The Institute for Scientific Information on Coffee. ISIC."  Who is ISIC?   Well, according to their website, "ISIC is made up of seven of the major European coffee companies: illycaffè, Mondelez International, Lavazza, Nestlé, Paulig, DE Master Blenders 1753 and Tchibo."

 

See what I mean?

post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlec View Post


How do you suggest then, that vaccine reactions be reported? I mean, you can be as pro-vaccine as you want, but you have to admit it would be helpful to have a more reliable method to track issues with vaccines, no? If vaers is "garbage", then what do we use? How can we ensure this compulsory medical procedure remains safe and/or becomes safer? I agree that it has limitations, but to dismiss it altogether is foolish. The CDC follows up on serious possible reactions, and that's a good thing. No matter how rare they might be, shouldn't they be counted?

 

VAERS is okay as a reporting system, but not great as a database for a research paper since there is no way to prove that the incidents reported were actually caused by the vaccines.

post #11 of 40

That's interesting, but although the headline of the coffee article was misleading (it should have read "Dehydration not shown to occur in a group of moderate coffee drinkers when compared to a control group with equal water consumption" maybe?), we are discussing the article "A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States".

 

Seems to me that special attention should be paid to authorship of articles that reach conclusions opposite to the current state of the science. Just doing some more reading on the Geiers and I am really aghast... Did you see that Dr Geier lost his license to practice medicine in Illinois, Missouri, and Maryland because he and his son opened clinics in which they gave autistic children series of high-dose Lupron injections, for SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS PER MONTH? These men are charlatans and they made a lot of money from the blood and pointless suffering of autistic children. Please read this complaint and tell me it doesn't turn your stomach and make you think, hmm, maybe their research is simply not trustworthy.

 

http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/geier/d_geier_charges.pdf

 

I see Janet Kern works at the Geiers' "Institute of Chronic Illnesses" (address is the Geier home). She's been a close associate for years. Was very much into the business of chemically castrating autistic children. Nice.

 

Guys, these people are not your friends.

post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

 

VAERS is okay as a reporting system, but not great as a database for a research paper since there is no way to prove that the incidents reported were actually caused by the vaccines.

VAERS is NOT okay as a reporting system, as only a fraction of adverse reactions get reported.

post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

VAERS is NOT okay as a reporting system, as only a fraction of adverse reactions get reported.

 

Overreporting is also a problem.  

 

"Overreporting. Adverse events may be included in the VAERS database that are not accurate descriptions of the event that occurred, and erroneous diagnoses may be reported. For example, a case of simple fainting after vaccination may be incorrectly reported as anaphylaxis, a potentially life-threatening condition.

Overreporting may also result from reports that describe adverse events for which a definitive diagnosis has not yet been reached. For example, if the reporter writes on the reporting form a diagnosis of "rule out meningitis", that VAERS report will be computer coded as meningitis. Unless specific follow-up is received indicating that meningitis was ruled out, the meningitis coding term will remain associated with the computerized VAERS report.

Adverse Event Incidence And Trends. As a result of the overreporting and underreporting issues described above, drawing conclusions from VAERS data about how many adverse events occurred in the United States must be done extremely carefully. Similarly, because the factors affecting overreporting and underreporting may vary over time, drawing conclusion from observations of changes, or lack of changes, in the frequency of adverse events in VAERS over time (trends) may be hazardous. In addition, numbers of adverse events reported to VAERS will at least partially reflect the number of doses of vaccine administered. For example, VAERS reports reflect the current trend of a decline in usage of whole-cell pertussis-containing vaccines and a simultaneous increase in the use of acellular pertussis vaccines; however, it would be incorrect to draw conclusions about the relative safety of these vaccines from such trend data. Finally, the number of doses of vaccine administered according to age is not part of the VAERS database, and therefore actual rates of adverse events are not strictly calculable."

 

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/VAERS.htm

post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post
 

That's interesting, but although the headline of the coffee article was misleading (it should have read "Dehydration not shown to occur in a group of moderate coffee drinkers when compared to a control group with equal water consumption" maybe?), we are discussing the article "A two-phase study evaluating the relationship between Thimerosal-containing vaccine administration and the risk for an autism spectrum disorder diagnosis in the United States".

 

Seems to me that special attention should be paid to authorship of articles that reach conclusions opposite to the current state of the science. Just doing some more reading on the Geiers and I am really aghast... Did you see that Dr Geier lost his license to practice medicine in Illinois, Missouri, and Maryland because he and his son opened clinics in which they gave autistic children series of high-dose Lupron injections, for SIX THOUSAND DOLLARS PER MONTH? These men are charlatans and they made a lot of money from the blood and pointless suffering of autistic children. Please read this complaint and tell me it doesn't turn your stomach and make you think, hmm, maybe their research is simply not trustworthy.

 

http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/geier/d_geier_charges.pdf

 

I see Janet Kern works at the Geiers' "Institute of Chronic Illnesses" (address is the Geier home). She's been a close associate for years. Was very much into the business of chemically castrating autistic children. Nice.

 

Guys, these people are not your friends.

 

I think it's far, far more complicated than you realize.  For many autistic children, there are major issues with testosterone, as early as 5 years old, with those issues severely worsening at puberty. These issues include seizures.  

It doesn't take much to see that there may be a link between testosterone and autism; remember that boys are 4 times more likely to have autism than girls (interestingly, this is the same male/female ratio we see with mercury poisoning), and there is a subgroup of autistic children who have seizure disorders.  There is also a subgroup of autistic children who experience precocious puberty, AND LUPRON IS INDICATED AS A TREATMENT FOR PRECOCIOUS PUBERTY: http://www.lupron.com

 

There are studies indicating a benefit to prescribing hormone inhibitors for seizures.

 

The Geiers did some good research on this:  http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/04/mercury-testost.html

 

We know the pharmaceutical industry (and the medical industry as well) is capable of witch hunts, and often tries to get medical licenses revoked.  Sometimes there is good reason to do so; sometimes, it's when a doctor gets too close to an uncomfortable truth.  

 

I don't know enough about the Geier's case to be sure either way; but I do know of autism families whose sons improved enormously on Lupron.  I know of others whose sons did not improve at all; they were not pressured into continuing treatment, and they are still fully supportive of the Geiers.

 

Here is what is probably a very different account of the Geiers than what you have previously read:  http://www.bolenreport.com/Mark%20Geier/attack%20on%20geiers.htm 

 

According to that, they only prescribed Lupron after lab testing indicated a medical reason to do so, and payment for both the testing and Lupron went directly to the lab and to pharmacies, not to the Geiers themselves.  Please read the whole article.

 

I am concerned that you're repeating deliberate (on the part of the Let's-Bash-Vaccine-Critics) fear-mongering when you talk about "chemically castrating autistic children."  If you're going to go there, shouldn't you be consistent, and accuse all doctors who treat premature puberty with Lupron of "chemical castration?"

 

As far as the Geiers are concerned, I have no way of knowing where the truth lies. Neither do you.

 

From my perspective, though--my son, who was diagnosed with autism, did indeed experience precocious puberty.  We chose not to do ANY medications--not ADD/ADHD drugs (which were VERY aggressively pushed on us), not chelation, not homeopathy, not Lupron, and no further vaccinations.  We felt that any of the above, with his complicated medical history, would have been experimental at best. We did not do any naturopathic treatments, either.

But I would totally understand why parents of an autistic boy who was experiencing seizures and precocious puberty, might want to try Lupron as a treatment.

post #15 of 40
It seems that a link between autism and precocious puberty was basically created by the Geiers, and they also played fast and loose with that diagnosis. They diagnosed 9 year old boys with precocious puberty.

I can believe that autism makes puberty even more difficult than it already is. I know especially for boys there are more issues with aggression with that increase of testosterone. I'm sure there are autistic children with precocious puberty. But Lupron as a way to help, what, chelate mercury, to treat autism? Nah. If I'm not seeing the studies, please feel free to link.
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

It seems that a link between autism and precocious puberty was basically created by the Geiers, and they also played fast and loose with that diagnosis. They diagnosed 9 year old boys with precocious puberty.

I can believe that autism makes puberty even more difficult than it already is. I know especially for boys there are more issues with aggression with that increase of testosterone. I'm sure there are autistic children with precocious puberty. But Lupron as a way to help, what, chelate mercury, to treat autism? Nah. If I'm not seeing the studies, please feel free to link.

ONSET of puberty before age 9 IS considered precocious.  I'm not sure that "fast and loose"is accurate.  A 9-year-old boy with voice change and full pubic hair does alarm most pediatricians enough to send the boy for bone age density scan.  We were even sent to a pediatric endocrinologist, who then sent us to a geneticist.

 

Are you sure the Geiers "created" the link between autism and precocious puberty? Or did they just happen to actually listen to all the parents who were reporting it?  Remember, many of these children experienced a drastic uptick or even first onset of seizures at puberty, in addition to the difficulties you recognize, of aggression and sexual behaviors that are exponentially more difficult to manage with autism.

post #17 of 40
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 
 

Are you sure the Geiers "created" the link between autism and precocious puberty? Or did they just happen to actually listen to all the parents who were reporting it?  Remember, many of these children experienced a drastic uptick or even first onset of seizures at puberty, in addition to the difficulties you recognize, of aggression and sexual behaviors that are exponentially more difficult to manage with autism.

 

I don't think the issue has been studied much beyond the Geiers work, but they certainly didn't create it. There was some research done in Russia in 1975, by Mnukhin, S.S and Isaev, D. N. in which they found precocious puberty in autistics., but I don't have the study. Many parents of autistic children also describe their children as hyper-sexed.

 

Kanner mentioned this hyper-sexuality, one of his first cases, at age five, "often masturbated with complete abandon".


Edited by Mirzam - 1/20/14 at 8:05pm
post #18 of 40
What do people have to do to piss off the parents of autistic parents? As long as someone is "supportive" they seem to have carte blanche to shoot kids up with experimental protocols. Just as long as it's not FDA approved I guess. Because let's be honest, they were not using Lupron to treat precocious puberty, they were using it as a treatment for AUTISM and committing insurance fraud.
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

What do people have to do to piss off the parents of autistic parents? As long as someone is "supportive" they seem to have carte blanche to shoot kids up with experimental protocols. Just as long as it's not FDA approved I guess. Because let's be honest, they were not using Lupron to treat precocious puberty, they were using it as a treatment for AUTISM and committing insurance fraud.

 

Citation needed. 

 

You don't have an autistic child, do you?  I ask because you seem to believe that autistic children don't deserve the same treatment for their medical issues as non-autistic children.  If a non-autistic child were treated for precocious puberty with Lupron, it apparently wouldn't bother you in the least.  But give an autistic child Lupron, which would not only address the precocious puberty but might also address seizures and autism symptoms, and you are screaming "chemical castration! insurance fraud!"

 

I think it's horrible to deny autistic children's medical symptoms and the necessary treatments.

 

Meanwhile, in Madrid, they've studied using Lupron to treat women with Alzheimer's, with promising results. 

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/47580.php

post #20 of 40
Your reference to Lupron being studied to treat Alzheimer's in a population of post menopausal women is relevant to giving it to prepubescent and pubescent autistic children how?
https://www.mbp.state.md.us/bpqapp/Orders/D2425004.271.PDF
Reference: the Maryland medical board order of suspension. The cases are really, really awful. I think if I had an autistic child I would feel worse! As it is, I'm a mother and a human being with an instinct to protect vulnerable people from exploitation. There was a terrible betrayal of trust there.

So no. I am not inclined to read their "study" with an open mind. They're just trying to keep a foot in their industry.
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