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New baby due just before flu season. DO NOT want to vax but scared.

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

I am just looking for a little reassurance and support. let me lay out my situation:) I have a 12 month old daughter who has never had one vaccine and she has always been a healthy little girl. I unexpectedly got pregnant and am due in September. When my first daughter was born my school aged step daughter did not live with us and was only here every other weekend. Now she lives with us full time. So here is my concern: When my baby is born, it will be September, my step daughter will be going back to school and bringing home all of those beginning of the year illnesses kids bring home. I feel pretty comfortable that my one year old is pretty much past the danger zone of being susceptible to serious side effect from vpd's. However the thought of my newborn catching pertussis or something of the like terrifies me. I know rationally I probably shouldn't worry. I will be bfing and my newborn will have all of those wonderful antibodies plus many other illnesses besides vaccine preventable ones are dangerous to newborns. Also I am very passionate about my beliefs on not vaxing and the thought of taking either of my precious babies to be injected with all that crap is unbearable. I guess what I am looking for is a little reassurance that my step daughter being school age is not the death of my newborn baby and that I am not a fool for not vaxing. Sounds dramatic, I know, but I'm sure you all can understand how it feels to be a worrying mommy:) Thanks all!

post #2 of 26

Awe, I'm sorry. It's normal to feel scared. Congrats on your pregnancy. You are doing the right things by taking this situation and realizing it may be different than when your DD was born (your step-daughter living with you); I agree that it may mean you take extra precautions. One thing that helped me with Pertussis in particular is that the vaccine really is worthless. I'm not saying that to be anti-vax, the studies, the rate of infection climbing right along with the rate of vaccination increasing, and article after article of outbreaks in fully vaccinated communities. I can dig all that up for you if you like. 

 

What also may help you is learning how to prevent/treat whatever illness you feel afraid of, the flu for example. Make sure your vitamin D levels are optimal, and if you can, see about getting your step-daughter on an appropriate vitamin D supplement as well, to help reduce the chances she will catch the flu.

 

Also, would you consider skipping the "well baby" visits until your LO is 6 months old. Dr.'s offices are filled with sick people and definitely not the best place to bring a new baby during cold/flu season. However, everyone views well visits differently and I'm in no way telling you NOT to do them.

 

While you are pregnant and when your baby is little, eat as much nutritious food as you can, and avoid junk. That will help your baby have a better chance at fighting anything off.

 

I'm sure you know or have considered most of these things, but when you're unexpectedly pregnant and have a new person living in your home, it makes sense to freak out a little. Good luck with everything.

post #3 of 26
I think BFing is the main thing! A week after my DS was born last Feb, me, my 3 older kids and my mom who came to stay and help me all got that horrific stomach bug (I think the sydney one) my BFing newborn stayed completely healthy!
I would encourage you to give the step daughter some immune boosting vitamins, herbs and probiotics to help prevent her from catching crud and bringing it home.
post #4 of 26
Thread Starter 

Thank you both so much! It helps so much to just to hear some advice from some like minded mommies. And I have heard that the pertussis vaccine has one of the highest failure rates. Thank you for reminding me of that. Also, I do need to get my step daughter eating healthier! I am currently giving her a multi vitamin daily but unfortunately her mother (and father as well :-/) did not raise her with the best of eating habits (she is also pre-diabetic) and I am having a hard time finding nutritious meals and snacks that she will actually eat. Thank you for reminding me how wonderful breastfeeding is as well. I recall a similar situation where my daughter was probably a few weeks old and my husband and I had a terrible cough for over a week. My baby was completely unaffected! I also used to give her probiotics which I think I should start with my newborn as well.... I do my best to eat well myself but unfortunately, as with my first pregnancy, I just can not stomach veggies of any kind right now. I was wondering if one of the "green juices" they carry at health food stores might be an appropriate substitute for veggies? Maybe this is the wrong forum for this question, but you seem to be some smart, healthy ladies:) 

post #5 of 26

I would suggest that whatever foods/snacks you offer your stepdaughter, you eat as well.  (You're probably already doing so.) Hopefully, if you can share with her a healthy lifestyle (enough exercise to give her a good appetite, healthy food, laughter, and love), the health will come about.

 

As far as the flu is concerned, I just found this website liamscheff.com, thanks to Mirzam's thread.  This post takes down the whole swine flu debacle so well, and so HUMOROUSLY, it's a wonder the swine flu myth has persisted this long!

Take a read:  http://liamscheff.com/2013/12/remembering-the-swine-flu-plague-of-when-was-that-again/

post #6 of 26
I'd suggest you get your step-daughter and yourselves into the habit of washing her hands as soon as she gets home from school, or any outing. I always do this but I am particularly rigorous during flu season.

Any chance you could make your own green smoothies? Fruit and veggies tend to start losing nutrients as soon as they're cut. And juices give you lots of sugar without many extra benefits. If you blend the whole fruit or veggie you are getting the fibre as well, which is very important.
post #7 of 26
I'd suggest you get your step-daughter and yourselves into the habit of washing your hands as soon as you get home from school, or any outing. I always do this but I am particularly rigorous during flu season. Or, if you pick her up, keep alcohol hand run in the car for everyone to use.

Any chance you could make your own green smoothies? Fruit and veggies tend to start losing nutrients as soon as they're cut. And juices give you lots of sugar without many extra benefits. If you blend the whole fruit or veggie you are getting the fibre as well, which is very i
post #8 of 26

swishing (if she can't gargle yet) with sea salt and baking soda every night

 

also read the recent flu dealing/prevention thread on this section - http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1395615/h1n1-how-to-treat

post #9 of 26
Thread Starter 

Great suggestions everyone. Thank you! I do have my step daughter take a shower first thing when she gets home from school and am constantly putting hand sanitizer on her and I when we leave the grocery store or anywhere of the sort. However, I am a little concerned about the ingredients in hand sanitizer and was considering making my own with essential oils but I'm not sure how effective those kinds are....as for the green juices, that was my concern (not getting the fiber). Thanks for the suggestion. I will look up recipies for making my own fruit/veggie smoothies. I guess I was just hoping to save the time and trouble. :-/ ...and as for having my sd "swish". Great idea! I will see if it is like pulling teeth to get her to do it:)

post #10 of 26
It probably will be at first, but she will get used to it if you persist. I make my kids gargle salt water before bed they hate it but they do it anyway and without arguing with me (they do argue with each other about who's going first - "not first!") LOL
post #11 of 26

Honestly? I would ditch the hand sanitizer. Use soap and water at the mall, restaurants, etc., and wash your hands when you come home. I don't know that it's even necessary for your daughter to shower as soon as she gets home, unless she's really sweaty or something.  It usually works better to take a shower right before bed, to relax, or as soon as you get up, to help you wake up.  (Or both, if it's really hot and humid!)

 

Hand sanitizer kills most of the germs--but they're still on your hands, and even if they're killed, your immune system can react to them.  It can certainly react to the germs that DIDN'T get killed.  Also, the ones that don't get killed tend to stick around and multiply.  Hand sanitizer is one of the causes of antbiotic-resistant bacteria.  Better to use soap and hot water and wash them off.

post #12 of 26

If you do feel the need to use a hand sanitizer:  http://doterrablog.com/diy-make-your-own-on-guard-hand-sanitizer

 

You could also make your own Thieves blend:  http://www.natural-aromatherapy-benefits.com/thievesoilrecipe.html

Quote:

Recipe #1

40 drops of Clove Essential Oil

35 drops of Lemon Essential Oil

20 drops of Cinnamon Essential Oil

 

15 drops of Eucalyptus Essential Oil

10 drops of Rosemary Essential Oil

and here's a spray version: http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2013/02/homemade-hand-sanitizer-with-essential-oils.html

You could take it along to spray, say the shopping cart handle and give it quick wipe.

post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 

Before I had my daughter that's how I felt about hand sanitizer as well but then I suppose I became a bit of a germaphobe.:o I was not aware however that killed germs can still cause illness. I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but do you have a source for this? I am just curious. I would honestly love it if I felt I didn't have to carry around purell with me all the time!...I understand that washing the germs off with soap and water is best, but honestly, there are always those times when that is not really an option. For example, you have just loaded all the groceries into the car and have a couple other errands to run. That is a long time to be walking around spreading germs by touching things (ie: the steering wheel, subconsciously touching your face, etc.) and it's not really reasonable to run to the bathroom at every stop with 2 babies and an older child to wash hands. What would your opinion be on a natural hand sanitizer? Wouldn't it be better than nothing? The recipe I am looking into making consists of lavendar essential oil, tea tree oil (both good at killing bacteria), which hazel, and aloe. Or maybe a simple baby wipe to wipe off germs would be better? I really don't know. You hear so many contradictions. Maybe just a quick prayer before we leave the house is all we really need:)

post #14 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyfirechick View Post
 

If you do feel the need to use a hand sanitizer:  http://doterrablog.com/diy-make-your-own-on-guard-hand-sanitizer

 

You could also make your own Thieves blend:  http://www.natural-aromatherapy-benefits.com/thievesoilrecipe.html

and here's a spray version: http://www.theprairiehomestead.com/2013/02/homemade-hand-sanitizer-with-essential-oils.html

You could take it along to spray, say the shopping cart handle and give it quick wipe.

Thank you very much for the recipes. Unfortunately I have read that clove and cinnamon are no no's for pregnant women. But I will look into the others:)

post #15 of 26

I'm sure you can sub them out for something more appropriate.  And I think part of the issue with sanitizers is that they don't kill all the germs (the whole "99.9%" on the label) so you are left with some live suckers on there along with the dead and dying.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/16/health/hand-sanitizer-toxic-upwave/

Quote:

When it comes to safety and effectiveness, the main concern with hand sanitizers is triclosan, which is the main antibacterial ingredient in nonalcoholic hand sanitizers.

"There's no good evidence that triclosan-containing products have a benefit," says Allison Aiello, associate professor of epidemiology at the University of Michigan. In Europe and the United States, hospitals won't even use them, she notes; it's thought that they don't reduce infections or illness.

Dr. Anna Bowen, a medical epidemiologist at The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, says, "Triclosan-containing products don't provide any disease protection beyond what you get from washing with soap and water."

also:

Quote:

Research has shown that triclosan can disrupt the endocrine system, amplifying testosterone. In animal studies, it reduced muscle strength. It may also harm the immune system.

So it's supposed to be used to kill germs but instead harms the immune system more than helps it. And there are the alcohol based ones:

Quote:

Alcohol-based sanitizers, on the other hand, are fairly effective and safe. "Hand sanitizers that are 60% alcohol are good at killing bacterial pathogens," says Bowen.

They can also kill some viruses, but not all of them -- such as the noroviruses that can cause cruise-ship outbreaks.

So again, they don't do much good for viruses since it's a toss up which ones the actually kill. Plus the mention them not working on dirty hands because it can't get past the dirt to the bacteria.  I don't even own antibacterial soap in my house and won't use it in other places, just water is better than nothing!

post #16 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by livysmom2013 View Post
 

Before I had my daughter that's how I felt about hand sanitizer as well but then I suppose I became a bit of a germaphobe.:o I was not aware however that killed germs can still cause illness. I'm not saying that I don't believe you, but do you have a source for this? I am just curious. I would honestly love it if I felt I didn't have to carry around purell with me all the time!...I understand that washing the germs off with soap and water is best, but honestly, there are always those times when that is not really an option. For example, you have just loaded all the groceries into the car and have a couple other errands to run. That is a long time to be walking around spreading germs by touching things (ie: the steering wheel, subconsciously touching your face, etc.) and it's not really reasonable to run to the bathroom at every stop with 2 babies and an older child to wash hands. What would your opinion be on a natural hand sanitizer? Wouldn't it be better than nothing? The recipe I am looking into making consists of lavendar essential oil, tea tree oil (both good at killing bacteria), which hazel, and aloe. Or maybe a simple baby wipe to wipe off germs would be better? I really don't know. You hear so many contradictions. Maybe just a quick prayer before we leave the house is all we really need:)

 

 

we just use cheap vodka 80 or 1000 proof what ever is on sale and tea tree oil in a spray bottle

 

I will tell you a few things you can do - you can buy (for those time when you DO have time to wash) soap leaves - they are easy to carry with you vs using Anti-bacterial soaps so many places have. I love them!

 

a few things you can do - clean you steering wheel - again we use as green as we can cleaning products and get in the habit of using gloves - let the gloves touch things, get in the car - take them off and touch with your bear hands all the areas that are "clean" - go to a thrift and find old cloth gloves, those that woman and girls use to wear (YEAR round - cotton/poly and light weigh) - dye them colors for you SDD - get her into using them - decorate them, make them FUN or even get those cheap kid's stretchy gloves

 

also we never did diaper wipes - h20!!! - we carry AT ALL TIME water - two bottles, drinking and wiping and you can (again a thrift store is great for this) an old thermos - get an OLD one, they are silver inside not the plastic ones - fill it with warm water before you leave, hand wash with the hands hanging out of the car - it's easy once you get in the habit of doing do……the water will stay warm for hours - super long------------ take along wash cloth with a soap stitched into it or an old thin sock with a knot in it - think camping! 

 

it's simply a matter of getting in the habit of doing it

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 

I love the idea of washing hands hanging out of the car! Come to think of it we used to do this when I was a kid. Usually just when Something sticky was on our hands but it was actually pretty easy. And it feels much cleaner than just smearing in some sanitizer. You know, hand sanitizer didn't even exist when I was a kid and my brother and I very rarely got sick and never were even ill enough to warrant a trip to the dr. .Also, back then the only routine vaccines were the tdap, mmr, and polio(which basically does not exist anymore, at least in the us where I live). So it's funny how our society has become so preoccupied with antibacterial everything and vaccines for every common, usually benign illness! Thank you all for talking a little sense into me. You got me thinking and snapped me out of my paranoia. For that I am very grateful. Also, Thank you for the handwashing idea, I am very excited! 9 times out of 10 I carry water with me anyway so I think I will buy some soap "leaves" and keep and hand towel in the car. So is the general consensus that antibacterial anything is actually BAD? or is it just unnecessary? I currently use antibacterial hand soap in my house so I am just wondering how urgent it is to switch. I was actually thinking about switching to dr, Bronners liquid castile soap anyway because I am trying to switch out all my beauty and cleaning products for more natural ones:)

post #18 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3LilChunklins View Post

It probably will be at first, but she will get used to it if you persist. I make my kids gargle salt water before bed they hate it but they do it anyway and without arguing with me (they do argue with each other about who's going first - "not first!") LOL


What does this do?

post #19 of 26
SereneBat had suggested swishing, I believe this is for children who don't quite grasp the concept of gargling. Viruses, namely the flu proliferate in the back of the throat, so by gargling warm salt water regularly keeps sickness at bay.
post #20 of 26
Thread Starter 

I believe it is because Salt water is a good cleanser for a few reasons. One, while it does not necessarily kill bacteria, it draws moisture out of bacteria. Two, it creates a salty environment which is hard for bacteria to live in (think of how they used to salt raw meat in the old days to prevent it from spoiling). And three, as with any liquid I suppose, it physically flushes out the back of the throat, sinus cavities, etc. when you gargle with it. I could be wrong but I have heard these are the reasons. 

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