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A pediatrician's different perspective on why he doesn't accept unvaccinated children - Page 11

post #201 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiachu View Post
 
A lot of doctors are at thr mercy of insurance compa ies. both medical insurers and their own malpractice insurance.

Doctors do not have liability for vaccine injuries, that's what the VICP is for.

post #202 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Not you obviously. When those damaged and killed by vaccines are fully investigated then we will know just how rare vaccine injuries are.

I dont know. I am asking for the resources for your claims that it has been underinvestigated. I have no experience with the vaccine damaged. I dont administer them nor do I know of anyone claiming or who claimed damage from a vaccine. I dont doubt that it occurs though.
post #203 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiachu View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Not you obviously. When those damaged and killed by vaccines are fully investigated then we will know just how rare vaccine injuries are.

I dont know. I am asking for the resources for your claims that it has been underinvestigated. I have no experience with the vaccine damaged. I dont administer them nor do I know of anyone claiming or who claimed damage from a vaccine. I dont doubt that it occurs though.

Vaccine individual injuries are not investigated by the CDC/VAERS.

post #204 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

The problem is that most endocrinologists treat to the TSH test.

If your lab result is in the normal range, your thyroid is considered healthy; symptoms be damned. Very few will run the free T3 and free T4 tests that will give a clearer picture on how your thyroid is doing. (BTW, never accept lab results that are just normal; find out what the optimal ranges are and shoot for them!)

And even though 90% of people with hypothyroidism have the autoimmune disorder Hashimoto's thyroiditis, most of them don't run the Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin antibodies tests that will reveal this problem. 

The other issue is that prescribing T4-only medication is considered the standard of "care," even though many people have trouble converting the storage T4 hormone to the active T3 one.

The pharmaceutical companies that make T4-only medications have spread lies that natural desiccated thyroid medications like Armour, which was used successfully for over 100 years, is unreliable and doesn't have consistent amounts of T4 and T3 batch to batch. But in fact Armour is a USP medication that IS tested. (And this is yet another example of demonizing older medications when newer versions are developed; witness what happened to aspirin. Yes, there absolutely are fads in medicine just like in any other profession.)

So endocrinology is just a train wreck from one end to the other, littered with the bodies of women who are tired, cold, have hair falling out and can't lose weight...but their TSH test is normal!



I'm sorry this happened to you, but I'm not surprised. Pretty much anyone with any problems at all that aren't as straightforward to fix like a wart removal or broken finger has to do lots and lots of detective work on their own to get well. 

And THIS IS CONSIDERED MODERN MEDICINE?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

The problem is that most endocrinologists treat to the TSH test.

If your lab result is in the normal range, your thyroid is considered healthy; symptoms be damned. Very few will run the free T3 and free T4 tests that will give a clearer picture on how your thyroid is doing. (BTW, never accept lab results that are just normal; find out what the optimal ranges are and shoot for them!)

And even though 90% of people with hypothyroidism have the autoimmune disorder Hashimoto's thyroiditis, most of them don't run the Thyroid Peroxidase and Thyroglobulin antibodies tests that will reveal this problem. 

The other issue is that prescribing T4-only medication is considered the standard of "care," even though many people have trouble converting the storage T4 hormone to the active T3 one.

The pharmaceutical companies that make T4-only medications have spread lies that natural desiccated thyroid medications like Armour, which was used successfully for over 100 years, is unreliable and doesn't have consistent amounts of T4 and T3 batch to batch. But in fact Armour is a USP medication that IS tested. (And this is yet another example of demonizing older medications when newer versions are developed; witness what happened to aspirin. Yes, there absolutely are fads in medicine just like in any other profession.)

So endocrinology is just a train wreck from one end to the other, littered with the bodies of women who are tired, cold, have hair falling out and can't lose weight...but their TSH test is normal!



I'm sorry this happened to you, but I'm not surprised. Pretty much anyone with any problems at all that aren't as straightforward to fix like a wart removal or broken finger has to do lots and lots of detective work on their own to get well. 

And THIS IS CONSIDERED MODERN MEDICINE?!

Modern medicine hasnt escaped being victimized by the human condition.
post #205 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Doctors do not have liability for vaccine injuries, that's what the VICP is for.

But they may push vaccines in effort to stay on an insurers rosters.
post #206 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiachu View Post
 
 
But they may push vaccines in effort to stay on an insurers rosters.

And that is a good thing?

post #207 of 292

Modern medicine hasnt escaped being victimized by the human condition.

My heart bleeds for Modern Medicine. I didn't realize it was a person and therefore subject to victimization.

post #208 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

And that is a good thing?

Nope.
post #209 of 292
Actually it's the same. It is unethical for an OB not to accept VBAC. Technically it should be illegal as it forces women to have surgery w/o consent, especially if she does not have easy access to another qualified provider. It also is not a best practices but it is standard of care - which as I pointed out earlier is defined as doing whatever the majority is doing.
post #210 of 292
Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 

 

There is insufficient research to say negatives are rare, but whatever. Do you really think the doctor in article linked really gives his patients the all the risks, however minuscule? I doubt it. Doctors that do not present all the information, do not deserve the trust of their patients.

 

Originally Posted by kiachu View Post
 

 

According to whom? 

 

Perhaps it's more to the point to say that there has not been sufficient research on adverse effects to determine the rate, and that there dismounting research that there are more adverse effects than were originally expected, and that both causes and mechanisms for such effects are as yet not completely understood.

 

The number of reports of seizure reactions to vaccines, of paralysis, of autoimmune disorders--these are increasing.

 

The number of children with neurological problems has increased far beyond what could be explained by better diagnosis.

 

And there are new findings about some of the ingredients in vaccines that seem to explain some of this.

post #211 of 292
 
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

Perhaps it's more to the point to say that there has not been sufficient research on adverse effects to determine the rate, and that there dismounting research that there are more adverse effects than were originally expected, and that both causes and mechanisms for such effects are as yet not completely understood.

 

The number of reports of seizure reactions to vaccines, of paralysis, of autoimmune disorders--these are increasing.

 

The number of children with neurological problems has increased far beyond what could be explained by better diagnosis.

 

And there are new findings about some of the ingredients in vaccines that seem to explain some of this.

 

These are the reasons why I'm extremely wary of vaccines; thanks Taximom5 for putting it so clearly. 

post #212 of 292
Thread Starter 

Reports are that at least two of the people in NY with measles got it from their doctor's office. 

 

The pediatrician who wrote the article in my OP has written another one and uses this example as another major reason why he won't allow unvaccinated children in his practice.  I won't post the article here directly, but if you are really interested in reading it you can PM me, although I'm sure a lot of you have already seen it. 

 

Does the fact that two people in the NY outbreak caught measles from their doctor's office change your stance on whether or not you think it's unethical for pediatricians to require vaccines? 

 

He says "It is because I never want patients in my office to contract vaccine-preventable illnesses (like at least two unlucky people in the New York City outbreak, who got the disease from visiting their own doctors) that patients whose parents refuse to vaccinate them are not welcome in my practice. I cannot entirely eliminate the potential for disease exposure between children who come to see me, but I can do my best to mitigate it. " 

post #213 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

Reports are that at least two of the people in NY with measles got it from their doctor's office. 

 

The pediatrician who wrote the article in my OP has written another one and uses this example as another major reason why he won't allow unvaccinated children in his practice.  I won't post the article here directly, but if you are really interested in reading it you can PM me, although I'm sure a lot of you have already seen it. 

 

Does the fact that two people in the NY outbreak caught measles from their doctor's office change your stance on whether or not you think it's unethical for pediatricians to require vaccines? 

 

He says "It is because I never want patients in my office to contract vaccine-preventable illnesses (like at least two unlucky people in the New York City outbreak, who got the disease from visiting their own doctors) that patients whose parents refuse to vaccinate them are not welcome in my practice. I cannot entirely eliminate the potential for disease exposure between children who come to see me, but I can do my best to mitigate it. " 

So you are saying they know for a fact someone who was unvaxxed is the cause of this? Or is this all just speculation because god forbid they accept that vaccines do in fact shed and it could have been a recently vaxxed kid leaving the office who spread it......   Because you can still transmit diseases for which you are vaccinated making it a moot point - the vaccinated can spread just as much as the unvaxxed.

post #214 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyfirechick View Post
 
 

So you are saying they know for a fact someone who was unvaxxed is the cause of this? Or is this all just speculation because god forbid they accept that vaccines do in fact shed and it could have been a recently vaxxed kid leaving the office who spread it......   Because you can still transmit diseases for which you are vaccinated making it a moot point - the vaccinated can spread just as much as the unvaxxed.

 

 

We describe a case of vaccine-associated measles in a two-year-old patient from British Columbia, Canada, in October 2013, who received her first dose of measles-containing vaccine 37 days prior to onset of prodromal symptoms. Identification of this delayed vaccine-associated case occurred in the context of an outbreak investigation of a measles cluster.

 

http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ViewArticle.aspx?ArticleId=20649

post #215 of 292
Thread Starter 

As the doctor in the quote said, it's not about eliminating all risk, it's about mitigating it.  Requiring that everyone be vaccinated reduces the risk as much as humanly possible. 

 

Surely you don't think measles is more prevalent now than it was before the vaccine do you? 

post #216 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
 

As the doctor in the quote said, it's not about eliminating all risk, it's about mitigating it.  Requiring that everyone be vaccinated reduces the risk as much as humanly possible. 

 

Surely you don't think measles is more prevalent now than it was before the vaccine do you? 

 

Humanly and vaccines are not two words I feel good going together. 

 

Since the "doctor" was talking about risk, I'm assuming this is your take on it? These are your words-correct? -  Requiring that everyone be vaccinated reduces the risk as much as humanly possible. Does this mean you now support mandatory vaccinations for all?

post #217 of 292

I think that, given the context of the discussion, it's pretty clear that she means "requiring that everyone [in the practice] be vaccinated reduces the risk as much as humanly possible".

post #218 of 292
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

I think that, given the context of the discussion, it's pretty clear that she means "requiring that everyone [in the practice] be vaccinated reduces the risk as much as humanly possible".

thanks but I prefer to hear it FOR SURE  from the poster

post #219 of 292
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

I think that, given the context of the discussion, it's pretty clear that she means "requiring that everyone [in the practice] be vaccinated reduces the risk as much as humanly possible".

 

Yes, thank you. I thought that was obvious. 

 

Sheesh serenbat, for someone who constantly accuses people of twisting things you sure do like to twist the words and meaning of others. 


Edited by teacozy - 3/15/14 at 2:00pm
post #220 of 292

It is serenbat.

 

Pay attention to details. Details are important.

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