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We're not vaccinating and my boy has pertussis.

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 

So, my almost ten month old started coughing and after a while, we suspected that it was whooping cough. When his cough suddenly changed from normal to not normal, we took him to our ped (which is pro-vax but isn't pushy about it.) and he gave him some antibiotics in hopes it would help the cough. 

 

My boy handles it really well. He gets really red, but he breathes through it and immediately after he's like I want to play! 

 

My husband is having a really hard time with this. REALLY HARD. The only thing he asked for our boy to get was pertussis because it is so scary! I resisted, since I'm the one that did all the research and while I showed him he just deferred to me, even though I urged him to do his own research so exactly this issue wouldn't happen. We aren't a team in it together anymore. He's like "we should have vaccinated him, I asked for just ONE shot out of all of them" and then I reiterated 'the its a cocktail' info and he's like then why do ALL of these doctors, all these highly educated people, think that they are beneficial? Is there some great conspiracy by ALL doctors? 

 

Now, I'm getting off track but we are libertarians. My husband is often very.... cautious with government. So I said, "Is it really such a stretch to believe that pharmaceutical companies PAY doctors to get this crap out there? Is there any difference in lobbying with the government and lobbying with the CDC? I mean, come on. Wouldn't you sell something if it paid well enough? "

 

Anyways. So he's upset and I'm devastated that my boy is sick but I'm just kind of like, this is biology. This is natural. He's going to be sick and we will deal with it and get help from our doctors and maybe even our hospital if it comes to that. He'll get better and his immune system will be stronger. I hate watching him cough and knowing there is nothing I can do but at the same time I can't protect him from everything. He has to live in this world and deal with germs. I won't put him in a bubble.  

 

I guess I'm just looking for a little support. My husband is a stay at home dad, since he's a musician and works at night on weekends. He deals with the boy a lot more than I do and watches him suffer all day long .That's got to be part of it too. He's in daddy mode a lot more than I am in mommy mode. I'd probably be frustrated and freaked out too if the roles where reversed. 

 

Has this happened to any of you? How do you go forward? I told him that we both have to be 100% on vaccinating or not because we can't have one of us turning on the other when times get tough and we're up all night with a itchy or coughing kid. All in, always a team, figuring it out together. This is rough to deal with on top of the frustration of sleepless nights and a sick baby. 

post #2 of 36

(((Hugs))))

 

I don't know if it help - but most of the other diseases that have vaccines and also circulate are milder, by far, than pertussis.  Your son might get chicken pox, rotavirus and the flu (and he might get the flu if vaxxed, anyways.  The flu vaccine does not have good efficacy) and all are milder than pertussis.  Most other diseases do not have high prevalence rates.

 

I don't know if this will help your Dh or not, but the pertussis vaccine has a pretty lousy efficacy rate.  Your Ds might have come down with whooping cough even if vaccinated.

 

While I feel for your husband (and I really do! ) you asked him to research things so you could make a decision together…and he didn't.  Being mad after he abdicated responsability isn't overly appropriate.  

 

Healing vibes to all of you.  You might want to research the role of vit. C in pertussis.  Some here know far more about it than I , and I hope they pop in.  


Edited by kathymuggle - 1/31/14 at 5:37pm
post #3 of 36

Are you still nursing him?  If so, you might want to pump extra milk for him for when you are not there.  Yes, I know he can handle other foods by now, but breast milk would by BY FAR the best thing for him right now.  If you've recently weaned him, it would actually be quite easy to relocate--a few sessions with a good Medela pump, and you'll be "back in business."

 

My understanding is that dairy products for him (other than your milk, of course) would be a really, really bad idea right now, as that would create more mucous, but my kids are no longer babies/toddlers, so wisdom/knowledge may have changed since they were that age.

And yes, do look at vitamin C supplements.  I'm not sure what brand/strength is recommended for that age group.  Obviously, you would want a liquid--DO NOT GIVE HIM GUMMIES.

post #4 of 36
Thread Starter 

Unfortunately I never breastfed. I have been exclusively pumping but my milk supply has always been incredibly low, despite my attempts to improve it. I still pump three times a day but I can barely get 4oz from any of them. I'm just continuing until I can't get anything. I've pumped since he's been born, used donated milk, have a cousin that donates semi regularly and he's on Baby's Only organic DHA/ARA formula. 

 

I'm going to continue pumping until I can't get anything. In the morning I get about 5oz, after work i get about 3.5, and before bed I get 3-4, depending. 

post #5 of 36

Get some sodium ascorbate from the healthfood store and give it to him in some water and/or OJ, until he gets loose stools - then you have reached his bowel tolerance. This can and will cut the severity of the illness.

 

Keep in mind that the vaccine is at best 59-78% effective, so you could still be in the same position if you vaccinated him, and the immunity will not be as long lasting. Look up "original antigen sin", which the vaccine will prevent natural immunity even if a person gets the disease.  http://www.beyondconformity.org.nz/hilarys-desk/whooping_cough_and_chameleons

 

Pertussis is known as the 100-day cough. Keep giving him the vitamin C, avoid dairy and grains for a while.

 

Tell your DH that once your son gets over this bout of pertussis, he is probably good to go for another 20-30 years.  The natural immunity will last that long or longer, long after everyone else is going back for their boosters! And good luck. I know it is not easy.  My youngest had measles and neither my husband nor I were concerned because we both had it and knew it was not dangerous in a healthy child.


Edited by applejuice - 1/31/14 at 3:57pm
post #6 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by meganlauriana View Post
 

Unfortunately I never breastfed. I have been exclusively pumping but my milk supply has always been incredibly low, despite my attempts to improve it. I still pump three times a day but I can barely get 4oz from any of them. I'm just continuing until I can't get anything. I've pumped since he's been born, used donated milk, have a cousin that donates semi regularly and he's on Baby's Only organic DHA/ARA formula. 

 

I'm going to continue pumping until I can't get anything. In the morning I get about 5oz, after work i get about 3.5, and before bed I get 3-4, depending. 

 

Good for you for pumping!  I know how very hard that is.  

 

Between work and home, you are probably already not getting enough sleep, and have zero extra time. But if you can add a couple of quick pumping sessions, even if it's only 10 minutes or so, you'll produce more milk within a couple of days.

 

Applejuice's suggestions are really good, too.

post #7 of 36

This article by Suzanne Humphries has everything you need to know about treating whooping cough with vitamin C

 

Vitamin C for Whooping Cough. Updated Edition

post #8 of 36

You need to follow the sodium ascorbate protocol for pertussis, for your baby's sake, and for your relationship with your husband. You'll start to notice a difference almost immediately.

 

375 mg sodium ascorbate per kilogram of body weight, divided evenly over a 24 hour period, given every few hours during the awake hours. Mixed with breast milk or formula.

post #9 of 36
Best wishes, and I support the reccomendarion of sodium ascorbate.
This is the brand I like:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00028PH2Q?cache=74e05e6b4f30f3f9d6953b5489b8c432&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70#ref=mp_s_a_1_20&qid=1391214955&sr=8-20

I always keep it at home, won't even go on vacation with my family without this.
post #10 of 36

If you give your little one antibiotics, please make sure you follow up with some probiotics, a good youghurt to start.  Your baby will like it.

post #11 of 36

Wow Meganlauriana, what a tough situation! I'm so sorry for you, your DH, and the baby too. I think my DH would also be upset if/when our kids contract a VAD  (vaccine-available-disease) because I'm the one who made the decision.

 

I agree with everyone here. Sodium ascorbate is great, but when you are giving the baby the first few doses, I would not give him a huge dose at first. Maybe space out the doses in the beginning, even some every hour. Once, I took way too much SA on an empty stomach, and it made me feel so sick! From then on, I'll use a large dose, but spread it out over the course of a few hours. For example, you can mix some in juice or breastmilk, and let the baby sip on it for an hour, instead of chugging it down all at once. Maybe others have had success with one huge megadose, but I have had better luck spacing out the megadose!

 

Also, I recently discovered organic milk kefir at Harris Teeter, Target, and Whole Foods. I think that would be something good for your baby. Most grocery stores carry organic Stoneyfield yogurt, even our local Walmart! The price is not bad either, which is why we always have it at the house!

 

I hope you find something your little man likes, and I hope he feels better soon! You can show your husband examples of fully vaccinated kids contracting pertussis, and maybe that would help him during this stressful time.

post #12 of 36
In order to be able to pump more, try this. A handful of regulars organic rolled
Oats in the blender with a glass
Of water. Blend and strain the water. Drink it and Wait 20-30 minutes and you should be able to pump more.
Might be better if you let the oats soak in the water overnight. Hope it works for you.
post #13 of 36
Since you treated it immediately he will get over it and have natural immunity which is far better and safer. Hugs!
post #14 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asiago View Post

Best wishes, and I support the reccomendarion of sodium ascorbate.
This is the brand I like:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00028PH2Q?cache=74e05e6b4f30f3f9d6953b5489b8c432&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70#ref=mp_s_a_1_20&qid=1391214955&sr=8-20
 

 

Your link went to ascorbic acid, which I assume was a mistake.

 

I use the same brand--Nutribiotic sodium ascorbate.

http://www.amazon.com/NutriBiotic-Sodium-Ascorbate-Crystalline-Powder/dp/B000Z8YM7O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1391232456&sr=8-2&keywords=nutribiotic+sodium+ascorbate

post #15 of 36
I apologize, the following is the correct link
http://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Ascorbate-Powder-Nutribiotic-2-2/dp/B000I4DOVU/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1391259576&sr=1-2&keywords=Sodium+ascorbate+ascorbate
I tried the NOW brand too, but the Neutribiotics brand seems to taste a bit better and dissolve more easily.
post #16 of 36

I had good luck with mother's milk tea by traditional medicinals when I needed a boost after returning to work part time (pumping gets waaaay less than nursing and that was a blow to my supply when I started to pump) and a good dose of vit C for ME while pumping/nursing.  I'm in a similar boat in terms of I made all the vaccination decisions because DH was content to just "go with it" rather than read or do any research - even having known 2 people with guillain barre following the flu vax.  He's ok with it as long as she's healthy but I know he would freak out if she got pretty much anything other than chicken pox.  Go with the Vit C protocol that ma2two mentioned (here's a link for it:  http://vaccinationcouncil.org/media/The-Vitamin-C-Treatment-of-Whooping-Cough.pdf ) and you should see results.  I follow this for just about any cold in the house along with some oil of oregano on the feet and we've cut duration of illnesses in half.

 

And YES YES YES to probiotics!!  The havoc that antibiotics wreak on the GI tract can take seemingly forever to fix but the sooner you do probiotics the quicker you can get things back on track!

post #17 of 36

Just a reminder that this forum does not host debate, and attacking and name calling is not permitted on any forum here at Mothering.

post #18 of 36
This thread has clearly been posted elsewhere and is drawing folks who are not interested in anything other than trolling. I am going to close the thread for now to limit that.
post #19 of 36

I'm reopening the discussion so that meganlauriana can get the support she needs. Posts to this discussion should be in support of her decision to not vaccinate not in criticism of it or to try to convince her otherwise. 

post #20 of 36

Well if your DH is interested (or at least willing) in reading about the poor efficacy of the vax, here's a nice blurb with links to journals about the outbreaks in VT from 2 years ago:  http://vtdigger.org/2012/10/08/90-percent-of-whooping-cough-cases-in-vermont-among-vaccinated-children/ 

 

Quote:
As of Aug. 10, there were 178 confirmed cases of pertussis in Vermont children between the ages of six months and 18 years. Of that number, 90 percent — or 160 kids — had received at least one dose of the child vaccination, while the majority had received five or six doses.

So realistically he can't just expect one vaccine to cover your LO when the CDC wants kids to have 6 doses in childhood alone (4 of them by 18mos!) followed by boosters throughout your adult life.....I mean really, they can't come up with something that lasts a tad bit longer??  As it stands your LO will now have far better, and longer, immunity than all of his peers.

 

Quote:
 
The problem with DTaP, as a study published last month in the New England Journal of Medicine shows, is that the vaccine loses its effectiveness. The study compared 277 children, ages 4 to 12, and found that a child’s odds of contracting pertussis increased 42 percent every year after the fifth dose.  ( http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1200850 )

That is a huge jump. So essentially 5 yrs after the 5th dose, at around age 12 you have no pertussis protection.  And going by the numbers, the more vaccines they had, the more likely they were to contract pertussis since those with 5+ doses were the majority of cases.

 

They openly admit the vaccine is not nearly as effective as they'd like (although they still "recommend"/push getting it) but when you take the effectiveness into consideration and then compare that with potential for reactions ( http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1200850 ) - this link specifically breaks it down for Infanrix - it's quite a long list of potential reactions.

 

Quote:
Redness Swelling Pain Fever Fussiness Drowsiness Poor Appetite Vomiting Persistent crying Seizures Hives Swelling of the Mouth Difficulty breathing Hypotension Shock Brachial neuritis Guillain-Barre Syndrome Sudden Infant Death Syndrome Cyanosis Diarrhea Intussusception Idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura Lymphadenopathy Thrombocytopenia Anaphylactic reaction Hypersensitivity Cellulitis Limb swelling Convulsions Encephalopathy Hypotonia Hypotonic-hyporesponsive episode Somnolence Irritability Respiratory Tract Infection Erythema Pruritus Rash Urticaria Ear pain

I can tell you from personal experience (my DD had 2 doses of the Pentacel variety), she had the following:  redness, swelling, fever, fussiness, drowsy immediately following vaccination and between bouts of crying fits (the 3+ hours screaming encephalitis variety) she was almost narcoleptic the way she would go out and wake up screaming again, diarrhea (which was impossible to tell if it was from the DTaP or the rotateq), irritable, and she became super sensitive to dairy (via breastmilk) following the first round and allergic to oats following the second.  After documenting all of these and bringing them to the attention of our pediatrician she still denied it was anything to worry about....just normal reactions.  So in hindsight, after having done the adverse reaction thing, I have much less fear or anxiety over VPD's.  At least with a confirmed diagnosis of disease you can plan your course of action for treatment.  With a vaccine reaction the first and biggest hurdle is getting anyone to diagnose or even admit that it in fact was a vaccine reaction.  Then there's such a huge debate and variety of ways to go about treatment.  We had to look "outside the box" and found a great ND who worked with us to determine exactly which vaccines were wreaking havoc in her system (DTaP and HIB), which foods were contributing to her GI issues and have significantly improved her health.  But it's been one heck of a battle.  I don't think either way is easier - disease or vaccine reaction.  But for me, I'd rather take the minimal chance for treatable disease over the seemingly higher chance of adverse reaction with uncertain course of action.

 

I hope things are going well for you and your fam and truly hope you can come to an agreement with your DH about how to proceed.  I know we may have to cross that same bridge one day and all I can say is I'll have plenty of printouts for him to read that that point to back up my decisions and hope he can just hang in there with me!

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