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Do I need to vax for my child to attend school? - Page 2

post #21 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

And the OP has stated that she doesn't feel the vaccines are "worth it".  That's not religion.  I guess there's no way for the law to know for sure, but it doesn't paint vaccine critics in the best light to suggest that she lie on an official document.

 

 

funny, many vaccine "supports" on here mention how they delay - if you really believe in them, you should not be delaying them, those in the know (CDC,etc) don't support do that yet we read it here ALL the time about it being done

 

over and over we hear how if you "delay" you are putting your child and other at risk - doesn't paint vaccine supporter in the best light!  :lol 

post #22 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post
 

 

 

funny, many vaccine "supports" on here mention how they delay - if you really believe in them, you should not be delaying them, those in the know (CDC,etc) don't support do that yet we read it here ALL the time about it being done

 

over and over we hear how if you "delay" you are putting your child and other at risk - doesn't paint vaccine supports in the best light!  :lol 

Reminds me of a few stories on voicesforvaccines - where they delayed but are advocating others don't. 

post #23 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 

and?

 

At best you can say that people play the ethics card when it is their side and don't when it is not.  Even that is stretching it a bit, but whatever. 

 

Personally, I would be more comfortable if we started a thread on religious exemptions (oh, how I could wax over what is a religous exemption and the ethics of having to choose between homeschooling, vaccination or lying on a form (I think *few* people out and out lie…that is another waxing point)) rather than co-opt this thread where a mother is looking for advice.  I wish she had posted this on sel/delayed. 

yes and let's pick who's religion is BEST while we are at it!

 

one can say that certain religions trump other! ah, what a can of worms to open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

post #24 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post
 
 

Reminds me of a few stories on voicesforvaccines - where they delayed but are advocating others don't. 

Even our local rep for V4V admitting delaying vaccines, of course now she sees the error of her ways (nevermind her child did not contract any of the life-threatening diseases they are suppose to prevent). But of course with her next baby she will do them ALL on schedule like a good mommy.

post #25 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post
 
 

 (nevermind her child did not contract any of the life-threatening diseases they are suppose to prevent).

OH, boy!  It is that herd immunity thing at work! NOT!

post #26 of 56

And OP, flu shots are not required for school attendance in Pennsylvania, so your only concern is the chickenpox.  You could have titers drawn to see if your child is already immune.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/028/chapter23/s23.83.html

post #27 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

Interesting.  In the doctor thread, vaccine critics were arguing that even though it was legal, it was not ethical for a doctor to refuse to see non-vaccinating families.  Now vaccine critics are sticking to the letter of the law and ignoring possible ethical grey areas.  I actually don't believe it should be legal to lie about a deeply held religious belief.


From the link posted by applejuice: 


Pennsylvania

 

State Vaccine Requirements

 

Posted Date: November 27, 2012


Quick Fact: Children need not be immunized if the parent, guardian or emancipated child objects in writing to the immunization on religious grounds or on the basis of a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief.

 

If the OP feels that the possible benefits of flu and chickenpox vaccines are not worth the risk they'd pose to her child, isn't that a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief?  How on earth would that be considered a lie?

 

What are the ethical ramifications of a for-profit industry recommending an invasive medical procedure that some people feel are not worth the risk?

As long as you are bringing up the issue of lying, at what point might you consider it acceptable to lie to avoid having your child harmed by an invasive medical procedure whose mandate was brought about by lies?

post #28 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I'm curious if "feeling chickenpox and flu vaccines aren 't worth it" (sic) would count as a strongly help religious or moral belief against vaccines. Does it?

 

(Posted by someone who did not receive flu shots while pregnant, and whose children did not receive chicken pox vaccine, hep B, or flu vaccines at the ages currently recommended by the CDC.)

post #29 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 

 

(Posted by someone who did not receive flu shots while pregnant, and whose children did not receive chicken pox vaccine, hep B, or flu vaccines at the ages currently recommended by the CDC.)

and it should be noted for the OP - this poster that Taximom5 quoted ( prosciencemum) is in the UK, not here and dealing with these US issues

post #30 of 56
Chickabiddy, are you seriously and with a straight face accusing the OP of contemplating lying about a religious exemption?? duh.gif

She may not have worded it to your satisfaction. But this is an MDC thread, not the exemption form itself. PA law is pretty clear that she doesn't have to belong to a particular
organized group or even believe in God to file the exemption so long as her conviction is strong. And by the time somebody is researching how to file an exemption, they're pretty damn strong and sincere in their beliefs.

I'm pretty confident that she can be the judge of her own sincerity.

By the way, no God I believe in would have me submit to the ridiculousness of routine early childhood varicella vaccination. smile.gifduck.gif
post #31 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
 


 

If the OP feels that the possible benefits of flu and chickenpox vaccines are not worth the risk they'd pose to her child, isn't that a strong moral or ethical conviction similar to a religious belief?  How on earth would that be considered a lie?

 

What are the ethical ramifications of a for-profit industry recommending an invasive medical procedure that some people feel are not worth the risk?

As long as you are bringing up the issue of lying, at what point might you consider it acceptable to lie to avoid having your child harmed by an invasive medical procedure whose mandate was brought about by lies?

I would like to know these answers too.

post #32 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by LitMom View Post
 

Typically, you cannot pick and choose some vaccines with public school admission. You can get a waiver in most states, against all vaccines; or you can get the required vaccinations. I don't think any states allow waivers from only certain vaccines. 

 

Some private schools don't require vaccines. Some private schools allow no waivers. It's up to them.

 

Everything above is NOT correct. 

 

States with philosophical exemptions (20 states) allow opting out of one, two, multiple, or all vaccines. In states with only religious exemptions, it depends on the wording of the law. Every state law is worded differently. And, if the school doesn't know what vaccines your child has gotten (if you've opted out of the state's vaccine registry), it doesn't matter.

 

School vaccine laws are made at the state level, and apply equally to public and private schools. Except for one or two states, the exemption laws treat public and private schools the same.

post #33 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

(Posted by someone who did not receive flu shots while pregnant, and whose children did not receive chicken pox vaccine, hep B, or flu vaccines at the ages currently recommended by the CDC.)

Not that PSM is an exemption critic, but this is something I want to scream from the mountain tops at exemption critics: Taking away someone else's rights will one day affect your own. For most parents with an open mind, there WILL be a time when you question a mandated/compulsory/required medical intervention.

Those who call for an end to non-med exemptions are shooting themselves in the foot. There really is a Big Picture to all of this.
post #34 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post
 

 

If she doesn't have a sincerely held religious belief, she shouldn't manufacture one.  "Not worth it" is not really a deeply and sincerely held spiritual belief.

 

So you do think it's okay for kids to be barred from a public education for a parent's vaccine choices. Got it.

 

But, as I pointed out previously by posting the text of the law, this is a moot point for her, since Pennsylvania law does not require there to be a religious belief against vaccines to get the exemption for school.

 

It is a strong ethical conviction of mine, that drugs should not be used unless they are necessary and the benefits outweigh the risks. Otherwise, I am harming myself or my family, which is morally wrong.

post #35 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post


Not that PSM is an exemption critic, but this is something I want to scream from the mountain tops at exemption critics: Taking away someone else's rights will one day affect your own. For most parents with an open mind, there WILL be a time when you question a mandated/compulsory/required medical intervention.

Those who call for an end to non-med exemptions are shooting themselves in the foot. There really is a Big Picture to all of this.

:yeah

 

oh come on now……..it's the pesky "compliance" thingy :laugh people who have a legitimate medical exemptions to vaccines  http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1397395/the-decsion-to-vaccinate-or-not-should-only-have-natural-consequences/40

 

it's going to be from one side and it's sure not the ANTI vaccine side pushing for these legal rights to be removed

post #36 of 56
In my state once can get an exemption (moral or religious) out of any or just some vaccines. It's a printed form, which the doctor just checks the ones the parent declines.
post #37 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukuspot View Post

In my state once can get an exemption (moral or religious) out of any or just some vaccines. It's a printed form, which the doctor just checks the ones the parent declines.

Stay tuned. About 24 state legislatures are looking at changes to their vaccine exemptions, so stay on top of it. Be prepared. Nothing is set in stone here.

https://nvicadvocacy.org/members/Home.aspx

 

Everything and anything is subject to change, often not for the better.

post #38 of 56
Ours just changed last year to this form (needing a doctor to sign off) so I don't expect it to change much more soon. But I'll be on the lookout.
post #39 of 56
That bill watch link is GREAT! Wow.
post #40 of 56
Oh man....They want me to register first before I can see it? Why? That info should be public! I'm not going to register. Boo to the NVIC.
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