Jesus was the first peace-loving liberal....

[candiland]

Wouldn't you agree?

Based on what Jesus supposedly taught, he was all about bucking the system and not judging others - which boils down to a philosophy of emotional, as well as physical, peace.

So why are so many supposed followers of Jesus supporting the killing of thousands of fetuses, children, men, and women?

Why do so many followers of Jesus wish to legislate morals based on their own judgments about what's right and wrong?

It seems to me that Jesus was no different than Buddha or Ghandi... the only way to true peace, true compassion, and true Love - which is what God is, IMO - is to shed light, not to master. Basing a society on a punitive justice system is NOT Jesus-like. It's not GOD-like.

So I am totally confused by the two irreconcilable belief systems...... they should not simultaneously exist in the same person's head. It seems like the definition of insanity, to me.

Can you enlighten me? What are your beliefs on this?

[kama'aina mama]

I don't think he was the first. Read some of the old testament prophets. Hard core leftists, many of them.

As for the dicotomy in thinking you point out... yeah... that's a tough one. I am on my way out to church (my friend just called, told me "Say 'Hi!' to God for me!") so I will be brief, but I think there are differences of interpretation in play and also... it is easy to talk the talk. Walking the walk is REALLY hard. Ghandi once said something to the effect that Christianity was an amazing, wonderful religion and if more Christians practiced it he might give it a try.

[spero]

I'm thinking that candiland is referring to the war in Iraq.

[lab]

I am of the opinion that Jesus was actually a zealot who was armed.

I just finished reading a book called Appointment in Jerusalem and it seems to me that Jesus was VERY specific in his ambition to 1) free Jews from Rome and 2) convince people he was the Messiah by self-fulfilling prophecy from the OT

Anyway, just my .02 and JMHO!

[cappuccinosmom]

I'm with Nursing Mother.

I don't think today's liberals would like Jesus much.

Yes, he bucked the system. But not because he was against religion and right/wrong and just wanted everyone to get along. The Bible actually says he is the ultimate Judge. And he *did* judge people. He didn't allow the adulturess to be stoned, but he judged her action as sin and told her to quit it. He did eat with sinners, etc. but he didn't advocate thier sinning. He sure as goodness judged Judas. And judged the Pharisees as hypocrites, because they made rules but didn't keep them. Or required keeping the law but did it in a way as to keep the letter but not the spirit.

Jesus wasn't about non-judgementalism. He was about grace in the face of judgement.

That's what I think, anyway.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

I'm with Nursing Mother.

I don't think today's liberals would like Jesus much.

Yes, he bucked the system. But not because he was against religion and right/wrong and just wanted everyone to get along. The Bible actually says he is the ultimate Judge. And he *did* judge people. He didn't allow the adulturess to be stoned, but he judged her action as sin and told her to quit it. He did eat with sinners, etc. but he didn't advocate thier sinning. He sure as goodness judged Judas. And judged the Pharisees as hypocrites, because they made rules but didn't keep them. Or required keeping the law but did it in a way as to keep the letter but not the spirit.

Jesus wasn't about non-judgementalism. He was about grace in the face of judgement.

That's what I think, anyway.

Me too.

The woman at the well. He saw her sin, her adultery and promiscuity and did not shame her. Neither did he ignore it. But most importantly, He loved her well and then told her to go and sin no more. He freed her burdened heart by seeing her deepest heart.

He WAS and IS about GRACE & MERCY in the face of judgement and I am so thankful for Him in my life.

[spero]

Amen, sisters!

[DebraBaker]

I think Jesus would be pissing off both the liberals and conservatives.

Anyone who would use Him to justify their agendas.

DB

[Shantimama]

The more I read here and in other places, the more I notice that liberals are sure Jesus was one too and that conservatives are absolutley convinced that Jesus would back all of their views. You will hear about one Jesus from one group and another person altogether from the other. And the attitude of superiority these two groups throw back and forth with one another is terrible.

The whole conversation just makes me sad these days. It is making me more contemplative all the time.

[hotmamacita]

Originally Posted by DebraBaker

I think Jesus would be pissing off both the liberals and conservatives.

Anyone who would use Him to justify their agendas.

DB

I TOTALLY agree!!!!

I believe He would also be in relationship with both. Anyone who wants to know Him, He'd be right there for them.

[its_our_family]

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

I don't think today's liberals would like Jesus much.

I agree. And most "fundamental Christians wouldn't like him either. It makes you wonder that if he were on earth today how many would actually accept him.

[Rainbow]

I think for sure if he existed he made waves... and for his day, maybe he was liberal. But not liberal as we grasp it. Consider Matthew 15:22-28 where he basically tells a woman that he is only there for the children of Israel and that it isn't his goal to take their food and throw it "to the dogs" to which she said "yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table."
Well you know, most would consider that pretty racist. I don't think the image of Jesus is all bad... most of the gospels are very enjoyable to read and inspiring. But there are some things I still can't see past- like what is mentioned above.

[hotmamacita]

Rainbow--can you explain more about why you see racism in the matthew scripture you mentioned? Thanks, .

I have NEVER read anything to support racism in this passage. What I have read from believing and non-believing scholars and preachers are other interpretations but never such that you imply.

I would like to know more about why you conclude this?

In Peace and off to BED

(can you believe it? it is 10pm and I am going to bed. mark this day down mamas. could this be the beginning of an era of sleep for me?)

[Rainbow]

Well the non Israelite here was likened to a dog based on the fact that she wasn't an Israelite.
Maybe it wasn't racism... I don't know... but it isn't extremely liberal imo....

[hotmamacita]

AH darn. I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep. So here I am. Boy, I love MDC, don't you?

Okay, Rainbow. Cool. Thanks for explaining that. I see where you are coming from.

Although, I do not think that is what is going on in this passage. It goes much deeper than that. Plus, I don't think racism would be consistent with his entire life, words, or other relationships.

I'll post more tomorrow or Wednesday on this. Okay?

I am going back to bed. hopefully.

[spero]

Originally Posted by its_our_family

I agree. And most "fundamental Christians wouldn't like him either. It makes you wonder that if he were on earth today how many would actually accept him.

Well, that's kinda the whole point, isn't it?

History is doomed to repeat itself, and all.....

[Boobs]

Originally Posted by candiland

Wouldn't you agree?

Based on what Jesus supposedly taught, he was all about bucking the system and not judging others - which boils down to a philosophy of emotional, as well as physical, peace.

So why are so many supposed followers of Jesus supporting the killing of thousands of fetuses, children, men, and women?

Why do so many followers of Jesus wish to legislate morals based on their own judgments about what's right and wrong?

It seems to me that Jesus was no different than Buddha or Ghandi... the only way to true peace, true compassion, and true Love - which is what God is, IMO - is to shed light, not to master. Basing a society on a punitive justice system is NOT Jesus-like. It's not GOD-like.

So I am totally confused by the two irreconcilable belief systems...... they should not simultaneously exist in the same person's head. It seems like the definition of insanity, to me.

Can you enlighten me? What are your beliefs on this?

I completely understand what you are saying and have often thought the same.
I feel like I have a relationship with Jesus and when I think of him, I don't think of judgement. To me he was the ultimate hippie. He was about peace and love and understanding and forgiveness.
I love the bumpersticker that says, "Jesus, save me from your people." That's how I feel!


Tracie (who loves Jesus, but doesn't care to go to church)

[DebraBaker]

Count me in the ranks of people who love Jesus but have been burned by people who claim to represent him.

DB

[its_our_family]

"Jesus Save Me From Your People"

Where can I get that bumper sticker :LOL

Have any of you read "A New Kind of Christian"? It is by a guy named Brian McClaren. It is an awesome book! Basically it is talking about the ideas of modernist Christians and Post-Modern Christians. It has really made a lot of things make sense and made me realize that I'm not as loopy as I thought!

I always wondered why I didn't "get along" with fundamentalists and why everyone in my family considers me liberal. And why my pastor growing up always called me the anti-Christ. It wasn't because I was wrong it was because I beyond what they saw christianity as being. Anyway, it has brought on a whole new world of discovery for me. Where things and ideas that I thought threatened what I believed really only makes what I believe richer (does that makes sense??)

Read the book...its awesome!

[Rainbow]

I know what you mean, the sermon on the mount is utterly beautiful. If he actually lived, he taught compassion for sure.
I definately agree with you that his life "theme" if you will was a beautiful one, but there are some aspects I think are non-liberal. If you accept the trinity, that Jesus and God are distinct yet one you have to accept that he has non-liberal aspects to him. Including exclusiveness. Liberalism is all about inclusiveness. I mean the entire base of Christianity is on an exclusive God to the Israelites by birth.