Anyone face negative remarks or shunning *in person* over not vax-ing?

[wednesday]

I'm just curious--I am not much of a "debating" type but the more I researched vaccines the less I felt comfortable with the idea of my son having any. He did have 3 DPTs as I was delaying everything else until I made my mind up. My mind is made up now that he won't get any more and future children won't get any.

Anyway the subject of vaccines came up recently on a parenting list I am on and I was a little shocked by how critical and frankly disrespectful some of the responses were. I mean one mom said something along the lines of "I don't care what facts, education, information etc you have, your right not to vaccinate ends when it exposes my child to risk..." Now on the one hand I feel like there is no risk to her child being around un-vaxed children any more than vaxed, if you take the POV that vaccines are not what keep people healthy. But obviously she assumes there is GREAT risk to her child from those dirty crazy paranoid people who don't vax. And it made me realize I may face this attitude in years to come from parents in playgroups or schools or whatever.

I'm looking for ideas or feedback from those who have BTDT on how to cope with this in the future if someone is right in my face about it...because I am a big wimp and don't handle confrontation very well.

[DesireeH]

your right not to vaccinate ends when it exposes my child to risk..."

Well if this comes up I say "If the vaccines work like you think they do, then why are you worried?" I mean doesnt she say she gets the vaccine to "protect" her child? If she really thinks that your child could make hers sick, then she is getting him/her a vaccine she doesnt think works, what is the point in that?

Honestly though, I wouldnt even tell them unless absolutely necessary. The same as they dont warn us when their child has been injected with a live nasty virus and then they bring them to come play.

[Mothra]

Most of the concern I've faced from parents who vaccinate is for their infants that are too young to have been vaccinated. Whatever.

The most recent face-to-face confrontation I've had is with an old friend who is now a doctor. I was actually surprised at the support I got from my other, childless, friends on the matter. By the end of the conversation he was just as pro-vaccination as he was when we started, but willing to say that parents should have more of a say in the matter.

I tend to not bring it up, usually. I might say that we are delaying vaccinating until the kids are older, or something like that, but most people are simply unwilling to accept anything that doesn't come from their own doctor.

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by DesireeH

I mean doesnt she say she gets the vaccine to "protect" her child? If she really thinks that your child could make hers sick, then she is getting him/her a vaccine she doesnt think works, what is the point in that?

That's exactly what I thought, but the response I got was that her *baby* might not be vaccinated yet, or that kids with cancer have compromised immune systems and everyone needs to get vax-ed to protect the few who are "legitimately" un-vaxed. I brought up the issue of shedding of live virus by recently vax-ed kids but everyone decided to just ignore that.

I don't know, maybe I will say something like he is medically contra-indicated due to a sensitivity to the traces of thimerosol in vax--then if someone tries to reassure me that vax are thimerosol-free I can educate them about the fact that actually, they aren't. Like, "Oh, I wish that were true, it is not an ingredient any more but because of how vax's are manufactured there is still some present. So it is not safe for my son." That wouldn't even be a lie.

[Katana]

I've found that unless someone truly wants to know my reasons, and is open to a different way of thinking, they're really just there to insult my decisions and bash my IQ. I could give them the formula to solve world hunger, but they're just waiting for me to stop talking so they can say, "You're so irresponsible, you are a freak of nature, etc."

Unless I feel like being insulted, usually, I just agree with them. "Yes, you're right, I am a freak of nature." What else can they say? End of discussion.

[Faith]

I got a bad 'talking to' once.

I was trying to explain for the ninth time to my father and mother that my DS (two at the time) MUST be in a carseat whenever he is in a moving vechicle.
They had been taking him, putting his carseat in the trunk, letting DS 'drive' in their laps, and then saying things like "well, it was a long trip/short trip" or "what? you meant even in the car/truck/van/on Tuesdays?" or just lying to us.

My dad turned the whole arguement around on me, his main point being, "If DS dies in a car crash, it will be quick death. If he gets one of those diseases, he will suffer!"
I tried to point out a few simple, basic facts (like autism and mercury), and my dad dismissed them all saying he wasn't a doctor. And why on earth does he assume a car wreck=quick death? My mom used to work in the ER, so I know they know better.

Unfortunately, I tend to be quiet and shy IRL and basicly just let him talk. I gave my mom the Mothering out at the time (with the vax article) and she wouldn't even look at it.

My parents are the only people who have ever given me grief. So there is an argument! "It's okay to kill other people's DC as long as you think it might be quick!"

My mom told me before that, that when you are a parent you have to do bad things sometimes (like vax), and the best thing to do is just do it quickly, don't think about it, and don't look into it, just do it and it will be over.

[Sasha_girl]

I refuse to debate my decision. I figure that I would never, ever, think to confront a parent about a difference in parenting; I would never, for example, tell a parent that by not co-sleeping they are bad parents. By that token I refuse to be on the defensive for my choices.

If a person has genuine questions I'm happy to answer them, but if I feel attacked I simply state that it's our decision, we've made it, and are comfortable with it.

[muse]

I avoid the topic altogether unless I know we're in agreement. I've overheard some really harsh comments about "non-vaxers" at a playgroup that made me realise how unsafe it would be to have everyone knowing my son's status; not just from my own point of view but from my son's...that is, I don't know if parents of friends of his would want our kids getting together any more if they knew. Crazy but true.

[grahamsmom98]

We Have!!!!!

Well, we have aquaintances that USED to be very social friends until they found out we had stopped all vaccinations on our son. One of the parents is a doctor, and they have two kids that get along great with our son.

When they found out we had stopped vaxxing (ds had a major adverse reaction within 30 seconds of receiving 6 vaccines --yeah, I know, that was before we ever even questioned things---), even for the very obvious MEDICAL reason, they refused to let their two vaccinated children be around our son anymore. They were "nice" about it, but said they just didn't want to risk ANY of the children, their's or our son.

I think they said it THAT way to try and be polite, but still....... I mean, WE didn't mind ds playing with THEIR kids!

It's funny, though, to us. Their two fully vaccinated kids are sick all the time (full-time daycare), and our son, SAH, was sick for the first time this past Winter. Two days of sniffles and it was over. He's 5 1/2 years old!

When friends mention their kids are cranky because they just had their shots and the "YOU know how THAT is" comment gets made, I judge the speaker and the situation before I say anything. Some people are shocked when they hear we stopped, but are even more shocked when they hear WHY. If they show an interest, I'll elaborate on why we are still negative on vaccines, aside from ds's reaction (ie, the ingredients, etc...). Some have even asked for more information. Some just say the same "Well, WE've researched, too, and trust the doctor!"

I always wonder how they can say that! IF they really have done their research, wouldn't they have SOME hesitation?? These same folks still go along with multiple vaccinations per visit, because it IS more convenient for them ("I miss enough work when they're sick or having well-baby checks to schedule extra time-off just to space-out shots! It's just too much trouble." Actually said to me by a gal that works with dh!!! Clueless, absolutely clueless........)

So, if they don't want to associate with us/ds because of his (and, OUR) non-vaxxed status, I guess they are not really friends afterall.

FRIENDS are accepting of friends, no matter what the circumstances! Same goes with family.

I just don't have the time or interest to deal with people that aren't truly either.

[nimamom]

Me too!

I absolutely agree with the previous posters about not mentioning my DD non-vaccinated status at all. I just don't make an issue out of it, it really is nobody's business. As DesireeH said, "If she really thinks that your child could make hers sick, then she is getting him/her a vaccine she doesnt think works, what is the point in that?"

What always gets me about that "your un-vaxed kid is dangerous" thing is how obviously skewed the logic is. If the vaccines actually worked, then what danger would an unvaccinated child be? Wouldn't the supposed "danger" be to the unvaccinated child? The reality is that whether or not my child is vaccinated has no effect on anybody else's child. In my opinion, it just means that my DD has a stronger immune system and I don't worry about her. As many other moms have said before, my unvaxed kiddo is hardly ever sick, and when she is its generally pretty minor. I just keep my mouth shut-- with other mothers, my family, etc. I don't need the fear and potential irrational reaction that comes along with other people freaking out about something they are totally ignorant about!

On that note.... I love mothering! It's so nice to feel like I'm not alone in all of this!

[dallaschildren]

Originally Posted by CK'sMama

I don’t discuss my son’s vaccination status with other parents, it isn’t any of their business.

Ditto.

[applejuice]

Originally Posted by wakeUpMama

I was a little shocked by how critical and frankly disrespectful some of the responses were.

No kidding. The story of my life. I made the mistake as a first grade student in 1960 to tell ALL of my classmates that I was not vaccinated. I was only a little kid! In eighth grade none of them had forgotten that I was not vaccinated, and I remember how apprehensive they all were when the school offered a vaccine to everyone for measles and the subject came up yet again. I NEVER, EVER mentioned this to anyone again unless they were friendly to me on the subject.

Thing have not changed much in forty-four years. I am glad there is MDC!

Originally Posted by wakeUpMama

I mean one mom said something along the lines of "I don't care what facts, education, information etc you have,

Yes, "Just, please, do not confuse me with the facts!"

How typical of the ordinary person.

How very sad... I thought people were taught to have critical thinking skills...I guess we are all just a bunch of sheep or lemmings...

How terriby sad for this society...

[Marni]

A non-vaxed family member pre-warned me NOT to speak of this issue with other parents, lest you lose friends. BUT, a friend of mine had her baby on the same day I had mine...so I KNEW the vax conversations would come up. I can't blantantly lie, so I fessed up my position. Well, that friend started "avoiding" my invitations for a playdate when our daughters were about 4 months old, after she casually asked her ped if it would be okay for her daughter to be around an unvaxed baby. The ped said she would not have HER kids around any unvaxed kids. I calmly lit into my friend with a litany of facts -- including the "if vax work so well, why wouldn't your kid be protected from my kid giving her Polio" argument. ANYHOW, I told this woman that if our daughters couldn't be around one another, then WE would have to end our friendship as well, because I was NOT going to be made to feel like a second-class citizen because of my (well-researched) choice. She is a smart (albeit impressionable) woman, so she went back to her ped and explained that it was a CLOSE FRIEND who chose not to vax, and said are you SURE it's not okay? WELL, GET THIS...the ped then said "I'm not sure, let me check with my colleagues and get back with you." THEN on her next visit (this was all back when the babies were getting there once a month check ups) -- the Ped said she "checked with her colleagues" and they said it was okay to hang with my unvaxed daughter, as long as she "didn't have a rash or a cough". My friend was very apologetic, and I am very forgiving--so we resumed our friendship after a 3 month hiatus-- but I told her if I was her, I'd change doctors. That doc needed colleages to inform her of that simple equation???????????

PS>> My poor friend's 13 month vaxed daughter has had MULTIPLE coughs, colds, AND viral rashes. My UNvaxed 13 month old \has had none. nada. zip. Do I rub this in her face? No. Would I like to? Yes.

[Mamid]

My unvaxed son has had CP and gets hives/ecxema. I'd be more worried about him catching something from a just vaxed child than a non-vaxed one. Shedding, no?

And yes I have gotten it too. Most people here just take it in stride. My SIaL gave me hell about it once then shut up about it when I told her the main reason why DS wasn't vaxed. That my mother almost died from her smallpox shot and that I was allergic to eggs!

Just Makes Me Mad when the vaxers assume that my unvaxed baby will get theirs sick. Its the other way around!

[*Erin*]

ninamom said "What always gets me about that "your un-vaxed kid is dangerous" thing is how obviously skewed the logic is. If the vaccines actually worked, then what danger would an unvaccinated child be? Wouldn't the supposed "danger" be to the unvaccinated child? "
mmmhmmm.
no joke.
i've never had any face to face confrontations with anyone other than the ped we took dd to see 2x when she was teeny. and we stopped seeing the drs in that practice.
i also don't discuss my dd's vax status with anyone else except supportive and close family and friends. it's no ones business.

[Waterdrinker]

thinking about sticking my neck out

I feel that I'm being lead to start informing people that they do have choices about vaccines. Dr. Ted Koren, a world famous chiropractor in the Philadelphia area, has put together a vaccine presentation - actually a couple of varying lenghts - which can be bought. It includes all the 400 pages of research he has found. Check out Korenpublications.com (I think). Anyway, I want to start small presentations for parents about choice. Of course I will have to state the obvious disclaimers, but I want to be a springboard for parents to make informed choices. I did one other presentation before and "saved" the children of the parents who attended. I'd also love to put ads in our weekly free newspaper about choice and a list of websites to go to for further information. Wouldn't that stir things up in my tiny town!

[menudo]

I mainly opened my trap when I first began to invistigate. That's when I learned the reality of it all (Duh, I was one of the ignorant sheep prior to this, I shoulda seen it coming!!) My sister, whose best friend is a biologist who works on vaccines because her parents had some disease years ago (I forget but they were in some type of camp in a 3rd world country for goodness sake, disease was rampant, nutrtition sucked, etc.), flipped when I mentioned just investigating and delaying!! She swore he'd have her friend contact me but thankfully, she never did. I NEVER brought it up again with her and NEVER will, I don't trust ANY of my family when it comes to these choices. No lie, everyone thinks I am nieve and easily fooled, etc. FAR FROM IT!

Then the cousins wife who I sent MDC links to (most non vax related, onewas) and sherefused to open even the links cause she is high up at a pharmeceutical where they believe Mothering is Satan and killing babies due to vaccination misinformation. So I tested waters saying I found the vaxarticles interesting but that's all (Ie. assume I vax) and she went on about how at her job she has seen permananatly damaged nonvaxers, etc. (At a pharma? HMMM...).

So I fib on occasion, especially when I said too much. Sure I DELAY (forever). I pick and choose when they'll be done onmy schedule(I picked none and chose none and never). I fear my one neighbor who has an autistic son and is on a major no vax rant (she is new to it, you know the amazement when you wanna tell the world!!) may tell others my stance, I have explained many just won't be accepting of this and I don't want it getting back to my family...

So far my parents haven't questioned DS never going to the Docs, I am not sure if they are afraid to know or truly believe it is just due to my crappy insurance.

[Oh the Irony]

We do not normally share our non-vax status, but that choice was recently taken away from us. (I would share if I was approached by a mom asking questions)

We recently moved to a small town where the ONLY people who knew have access to my 6 year olds confidential school folder.

Someone who read that folder shared the information. I was approached by a parent who "heard" that we don't vaccinate. Anyone in the school could now know that we are not vaxxed.

Another mama on this list also had her info shared--non-vaxed kids were actually posted on a bulletin board.

If your child is in pre-school or school, please do not assume that the medical records are secure. Legally, they should be, but that is not always the case.
Ask your principal how this info is protected.

I talked to an attorney, but could not afford to pursue. I talked to a school board member--who was shocked that I did not vaccinate--informed me that it was illegal for me not to. HAd never heard of exemptions... Finally got her to see that it was a privacy issue and that the law had been broken.


I don't and probably won't know how this affects us in the school. Don't know many people yet so I cant see if anything is different, but it concerns me. Guess I may as well become an activist now!

[nimamom]

Wolfmom-- That is really awful... what a horrible violation of privacy. I have a friend who for reasons such as that (as well as the fact that her family moves a lot) "faked" her kids vaccination status. She was able to get a card and filled it in. She was driven to this out of desperation because her DH had been transferred to Mississippi where they only allow medical exemption. I still talk to her on occation, and apparantly she's gotten by ok. But, still! It's nervewracking!!! Not to mention incredibly unfortunate that someone would feel driven to that place based on their basic liberties to make the best decision for the health of their child being disrespected!

Geez....

[HRC121799]

So far my Mom & sister know about us not vaxxing anymore (baby was full up to 6mos. older ds got up to his 15mos. shots). My Mom was just confused I think, and my sister thinks I'm nuts but we're best friends so neither of us made it an issue (she's getting her 4.5 y.o. up to date on all his shots and exact quote was "he's fine with pain, so I'll just get him anything they offer, he can take it" Ugghhhh....)I know which family members I'd get major opposition from, and don't feel the need to get into a debate (my Dad) but I think if the subject came up, I wouldn't hesitate to say what our status is. But I wouldn't just offer up that information. And depending on who it is, I might just say "we're waiting longer". I'm so new into this, who knows how I'll feel later.