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Ongoing issue - Please share your thoughts - Page 3

post #41 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifetapestry
That said, I find it distasteful for the administration of a board to be concerning itself with who is friends with who, and expending effort trying to discern people's true motives in posting. No matter who has sent you what kind of secret information, there is no way that you can truly know why someone posts a rave or stocking information or other possible "spam". Any attempts to try to sniff out true spam are likely to lead to false accusations, hurt feelings, and general feelings of alienation from not only those involved, but those who hear about it on the grapevine.

I also feel uncomfortable that administrators of a board would encourage other members to "rat" on people who admit or claim they were "spamming" by accepting emails or PMs with screenshots or posts from other boards or the like. This seems more like juvenile than adult professional behavior to me, and reminds me of junior high when some loser kid would tell some popular kid, "psst . . . Susie said this about you . . . . " And I don't even want to know about the people who feel compelled to "rat" on other people-- as the "kids" say, they obviously need to get a life.

Karla

Wow, exactly what I was thinking, but could never in a million years say it so well! :LOL
post #42 of 90
If I own a WAHM's product and use it and like it, I say so.

If I do not, but have heard X or Y about it, I say so.

And as far as the original question, I agree with many previous posters that it smacks of mind control to attempt to discern the posting motives of someone recommending a product they themselves do not make.

I am willing to put up with quite a bit of 'covert SPAM' to keep the general community fellowship feeling here. It's my opinion that the truth will out, anyway... if a product is raved over and then purchased by a few brave souls, they will come back and report that actually, NewSuperCuteseyDiaperNameAIOs bite the wax tadpole, don't buy them.

My .02
post #43 of 90
I'm not sure how to say this without sounding snooty, but I really don't see the difference in one person raving over and over and over again about a WAHM (whether they be friends or simply have a busines relationship) than WAHM's being able to promote their business by link in their signature or by the advertising banner. I mean, it's promotion right? Who cares who is promoting it.

I also might be stupid, but are there really people that may be friends with someone who may not like or use their product, but then actually rave about how great the product is just because they are friends??? Sorry, but I couldn't do that myself...not to say someone else is but still.

Like someone else said, if someone asks about a certain product and I feel strongly about it, then the answer will always be the same.

I also would hate to miss out on threads that promotes a sale. I mean, aren't we all looking for a good deal or new things to try? It saves me from having to be a member of thousands of yahoo groups!

And one last thing. I was a member of a paid board in the past that actually sought out the posts of members on OTHER boards, and nothing resulted other than hurt feelings, and members getting their membership revoked at the paid site. I'm not saying that would happen here, but, I just don't know how anyone could police this and it's a good thing I'm not a moderator because I wouldn't even want to learn how to police it! :

**Edited my awful spelling!
post #44 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatalieS
Obviously, a great aspect to the diapering boards is referrals. But to see threads that are started just to say 'So & So is having a sale!'- that turns me off as an advertiser, as a member and as a shopper.
You're not the only one. But fortunately by just placing my mouse over the name of the thread I can see the first bit and decide if I even want to bother opening it! That's soo nice!

I do on the other hand love knowing when someone stocks or opens again because so often my yahoo emails don't come through in a timely manner or I'm not on a list I should be! :LOL
post #45 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs. Edwards
I also might be stupid, but are their really people that may be friends with someone who may not like or use their product, but then actually rave about how great the product is just because they are friends??? Sorry, but I couldn't do that myself...not to say someone else is but still.
Just wanted to say that I know you can promote a product that doesn't work for you and keep your conscience at bay buy being honest only about the good parts and not mentioning the bad. Such as - "This AIO is so well made and she has great prints, can't beat the price" But then don't mention the fact that the design stinks and it's bulkier than two cpf's trifolded! :LOL

Anyway, just wanted to help when you're thinking of how someone could seemingly lie to help a friend get their business up and going.
post #46 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReesesMomma
I participate on another board that has both paid advertisements (banners) and allows SPAM. It seems to working just fine for them. And it's a pretty large board.
I think I know the board you are talking about.. Let's just say that I too visit a larger diapering board that allows SPAM and it just drives me insane! Everytime someone says they are looking for a good AIO you have a number of WAHM's saying that their product is awesome and I just want to stick my tongue out at them and then close the whole screen! Of course they think that, that's not what the original poster had asked.. they wanted to know objectively I'm sure! Needless to say I only lurk there these days.

Now I'm not talking about P&B for those of you from my home board - I consider that board small enough to handle SPAM well.
post #47 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifetapestry
But "spam" doesn't have nearly the commercial value of advertising at MDC, in my opinion. Even if someone spams for their friend once/month and the thread gets a few replies, that e-space devoted to the spammed product is hardly the e-space that WAHM's who advertise get through the banners, that front page or whatever it is on the diapering page, or from users simply seeing their signature even time they post. True "spam" has no commercial value, with the rapid pace of the diapering board, unless other people have tried the product or are very intrigued by the product, and the "spam" thread will quickly fall off the first page of the forum and into oblivion. Hardly a substitute for signature or banner advertising.

Karla
That's really true!

I don't know how many times I've seen a new site come up and held off ordering until I'd heard from others that had tried the product and sometimes I asked several times so I could hear from multiple people before committing my paypal funds! lol This board does move quite fast and it would take a lot to get people to pay attention nonetheless go nuts over an "untested by at least a few people" product.

Now just for fun, let's say this spamming did get 20 people to buy xyz product. When those 20 got their product and a person like myself asked for someone to report back at least one of those 20 would be honest if the product wasn't all it was cracked up to be and most likely half would just keep quiet. As it is in soo many trades, word of mouth is everything! That 20 wouldn't turn into 200 as the spammer had hoped!

When I had more time I used to go Banner hopping here just for fun, pushing refresh and clicking on every one up there! lol And I love to click on links in posters signatures, that's a lot of fun for me as well.

Bottom line, I couldn't agree more. Banners and sig lines do more for me than an occasional recommendation, especially by only one individual, because the former get my attention over and over again until I'm forced (by my own curiousity) to start asking everyone what they think! That's when the fun begins!


Ok - I'm now going to bed before my fingers get too far away from me or my typos get out of hand!
post #48 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by feebeeglee
NewSuperCuteseyDiaperNameAIOs bite the wax tadpole,
don't buy them.
: Made me laugh! Ok.. now I'm really off to bed!
post #49 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nada
I just wanted to add... I agree that there are some spammers out there... some spamming for their friends BUT personally I would not endorse something that was crappy, not even if the WAHM was my friend. It would make ME look stupid in the end.

Nada
Exactly! I have raved a couple of WAHMs that i 'know' online, but for two reasons: that their products are so superior and i want all the MDC mamas to be able to enjoy them, and because i think they deserve to have a broader recognition here on this community where diapering is so popular, regardless of whether they advertise here. Not one has asked me to rave her products here; i have only ever done that when i love something, no matter how much i like the person. Just when you think MDC could NOT possibly be more policed than it already is... :.

But hey, if a mod asks me not to mention a product because they believe i'm spamming, i guess i have to comply. It's either that or leave this community, and i'd sacrifice a lot before i'd do that. This whole discussion is making me sick.
post #50 of 90
Here's another thing to throw on the debate fire... (and the following are hypothetical company/business owner)

Say, for example, I bought an AIO from ABC Diapers. Melanie owns ABC Diapers. I use them, I like them. I rave about them, and "spam" her site a little. Then Melanie and I become friends. We are on other boards together. We develop a great "virtual" relationship with one another.

Should I STOP from raving about Melanie's diapers, when they are all I use? If it is found out that I am great friends with Melanie, would I then be in trouble, and get my hand slapped?

I think there is WAY too much to consider here. At whose discretion will it be determined that my relationship with Melanie crosses the line? It becomes arbitrary and capricious when power (and I don't mean power in a negative way) is given to a select few to make those determinations. I think the variables are great... to the point of not really being able to develop a lithmus test, if you will, regarding what relationships are safe, and what relationships cross the line.

I hope that makes sense... but this just came to me... in the midst of NEEDING to work!
post #51 of 90
Just to add a little color, my business partner (not in the diapering business, BTW) and I use the term "spamming" really broadly, often in jest, to refer to any positive mention or promotion. So if someone says she was spamming something at MDC she could be using the term a touch ironically, if you know what I mean. I would be really careful about drawing a conclusion from such a statement, especially on line where we can't see someone's expression or hear her tone of voice.

And I too often give the same answers when asked the perennial questions (what's a good inexpensive AIO/fitted). I tried a lot of diapers that didn't live up to their billing and I'd like to save someone else the trouble when I can.


Beth, DS4, DD 15 mos.
post #52 of 90
My short answer is that as long as the recommendation is appropriate for the question asked, who cares what the motivation behind the suggestion is. The answer will be helpful to those reading regardless of who the poster might be friends with.

As for my long answer...personally, I think this board is way over-moderated. I'm not a WAHM, but I do deisgn and make diapers for Ben just for fun so I have an idea what these WAHMs put into their products. I'm also in direct sales (not diapers), and the key to sales is filling a need. Selling something they don't need is unethical, in my opinion, but selling something that meets a need is just as honorable as buying. With that said, I many times feel bad for the WAHMs because the rules are so strict. If someone asks for a good nighttime diaper and you've spent hours designing one that works for you and has some unique features in comparison to others on the market, you ought to be able to say "I sell product X that might meet your needs because it ----." Personally, I like recommendations from people who have used certain diapers, but if someone designed a diaper to work a certain way, I really pay attention. Take Little Lounging Lizards, for example. She states on her website that her diapers are very absorbant and trim and she shows how she designed them to be that way. As someone who sews and has tried making diapers, I have a lot of respect for that. If I asked about nighttime diapering, I would want to hear recommendations from both users and designers explaining why their diaper might work for me. The more educated I am about a product, the more confident I can feel when I buy it. Not all diapers work for all babies, so there is going to be more than one answer for any given question. Perhaps I'm that way because I want to know WHY something works well rather than just a blank recommendation (i.e. 9 layers of hemp when tri-folded vs. very absorbant diaper). If I were a diaper-selling WAHM, I don't know if I would surf this board because I would have worked really hard to design my products but here I would feel like I have tape over my mouth. In my personal business (direct sales), I do not advertise - I just work with friends of my customers and so forth and I never run out of people to work with. This board, IMO, should be a place where mothers discuss diapers and how they work on their babies - simply mother to mother. It shouldn't matter if you have a baby who just uses diapers that other people make or if you use diapers your design yourself. As long as your suggestions are reasonable solutions to someone's problem, it doesn't matter if you're recommending something you make and sell or just something you've bought and used.

I'm probably really going out on a limb to say this, but sometimes I think that the diapering board should not be the "MDC Diapering Board" but rather the "WAHM Diapering Board" since all administrative decisions revolve around how the board can best benefit those who choose to advertise here. If you're on the diapering board, you'd better discuss WAHM-made diapers. We use diapers I have made, but in the process of making them, I've tried many diapers. So the diapers I recommend are based on my experience with the one I have used. But I can only speak in terms of those WAHM diapers we have tried, not the ones we actually use. Thus I always have to think outside the box and recommend products that I've found which are similar to the ones I've designed in order to help people. I can't say that I've made diapers even with pattern X that work well for us - I have to refer to them as though I bought them from a WAHM. Otherwise I might be "promoting myself" which I am not, and in implying that I bought them from someone else, I'm promoting businesses that sell those diapers. Granted, most moms are not going to make their own diapers, but many WAHMs do custom orders, so if you asked for x layers of hemp, you could probably get it.

Simply put, I think this board is a little too concerned with protecting its sources of revenue, with this whole discussion as a great case in point. Trying to read people's minds and determine whether or not they're spamming for someone they know is simply way too controlling, IMO. Let people talk freely. I know that advertising provides revenue that makes this board possible, but if you are too controlling about what is said and what isn't, the board ceases to be a pleasant place to visit, and thus devalues the advertising done here since less people are coming to the boards. And if you have too much advertising, that gets annoying too. Personally, I click on banners all the time. But I never click on signatures or on ads on that page before you get to the diapering board. Quite frankly, I find that page before you get to the diapering board far more annoying that I would find a WAHM saying "I designed and sell diaper X that might work for you because it has X, X, and X." Again, yes, money talks, but if you start to annoy people with your advertising and become too protective of those who advertise by making strict rules about what can and cannot be said, people will quit visiting your site because it just ain't fun anymore.
post #53 of 90
I keep reading this wondering if i want to respond.. lol. But I think the main question is being missed.... I didndt get the ipmression that Cynthia was talking about people spamming because they like something ... I thought she was saying if MDC KNOWS that a WAHM asked another WAHM or friend to purposefully spam for her. If thats the case i do think its wrong... and unfair for those that pay for advertising. What can MDC do about it? I dont know if there is anything.... it just sucks it happens. And for those questioning... yes it DOES happen.. or at least used to among a certain group of WAHMs. Whether it still does... I have no idea as I try not to pay attention anymore to that kind of tacky drama

So i guess in the end if its a known fact that someone is repeatedly asking people to spam for them .. then it should be dealt with. Other than in that situation, im not sure that MDC can do anything at all.
post #54 of 90
If it against the rules to spam and there is proof that a member was on another board bragging about how they were spamming for a friend then the member who was doing the spamming should be talked to and whatever appropriate action taken.

I do have a few specific WAHMs that I like to buy from and when someone askes what types of diapers I like I always say the same people. I think we should still all be free to do this. That is what these boards are for...sharing.
post #55 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2kyla
I keep reading this wondering if i want to respond.. lol. But I think the main question is being missed.... I didndt get the ipmression that Cynthia was talking about people spamming because they like something ... I thought she was saying if MDC KNOWS that a WAHM asked another WAHM or friend to purposefully spam for her. If thats the case i do think its wrong... and unfair for those that pay for advertising. What can MDC do about it? I dont know if there is anything.... it just sucks it happens. And for those questioning... yes it DOES happen.. or at least used to among a certain group of WAHMs. Whether it still does... I have no idea as I try not to pay attention anymore to that kind of tacky drama

So i guess in the end if its a known fact that someone is repeatedly asking people to spam for them .. then it should be dealt with. Other than in that situation, im not sure that MDC can do anything at all.
Well, with that being said, how will MDC and its mods really know that this is happening? If it is bragging on another board, isn't someone in essence narking on that person? And then this all turns into a nark-fest? I think that the issue has been addressed, but it also went off in another direction. Some have already stressed their concerns with this becoming a Big Brother situation. Sure, if there is one or two people who do it, then yes.... as an individual who just paid for sig advertising over the weekend, then I say you should say something to those individuals. But if it is just a general "we know this is happening on X board, but we really don't have an idea how extensive it is," then this all gets out of hand.

ok.... that is all I am saying about this ... for now. This is just the attorney in me coming out... I am not a person for being overly-regulated, and from the sounds of it, I am not the only one.
post #56 of 90
the issue isnt HOW the info gets to MDC.... if they were paying people to give them insider information that would be one thing :LOL . But the question is IF they were to find out... what should they do ? If they ignore it..... it encourages people to do it. If they dont ignore, they are too heavy handed. I'm glad I'm not a mod/admin :LOL
post #57 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2kyla
I'm glad I'm not a mod/admin :LOL
LOL! I have to agree with you there!!!
post #58 of 90
I can see why people who pay for advertising would be upset over this. But I really don't have any idea how anything about this could be done. Are you going to have watch dogs that lurk over ever single diapering community or parenting community that talks about cds and then report back?

I don't mind people saying they like something if they really do like it. It's hard to tell what someone's intent is if they always recommend one wahm over and over again. Is it because they truly love the dipes and have had good customer service, maybe it's the only wahm they have bought from so they don't know any one else to recommend or is it because they are friends. I think it's too hard to call on this issue and frankly mdc is moderated enough IMO. Yeah it gets annoying to hear the same recommendation from the same person over and over again, but that goes for anyone saying the same thing a half dozen times in any other forum as well.

I don't mind spam on the board since I can avoid that by not opening some posts but if I get spam in my pm box then I'm ticked.
post #59 of 90
Wow. I just read this entire thread and I sure wish I hadn't. There is way more information here than I want to know. I'm going to stick my head back in the sand, head back to the diapering forum and continue to believe that we are all just having fun...
post #60 of 90
I think it's important not to lose sight of the definition of SPAM.

If I know Melanie of ABC Diapers personally and she says, "Hey, could you do a little promotion for me over there since everybody really likes you?" and I either start or reply to threads with "You're looking for Product Y from ABC Diapers - they're great!", that is SPAM.

I don't know how it can truly be SPAM if I'm simply raving about something that is working for me - regardless of my affiliation with the business owner.

I DO appreciate when mamas post "Suzy-Q Diapers is having a huge sale!" because I might benefit. Much like a coworker telling me Frosted Flakes are on mega-sale at HyVee. Gee, thanks. I wouldn't have known that if you hadn't told me!

Much like Aherne, my answer to the best side-snapping PUL cover is always going to be the same. Always. Kathy and I are sharing a brain cell with her post.

Over-moderation can kill a board very quickly. It can also take the fun out of my hobby.

Some are bothered by posts about businesses that don't advertise here. Personally, I'm more put off by posts by advertisers who sell the product they're talking about. There is one WAHM here who sells a product I'm very fond of. I'd never buy new from her because I constantly see her raving about that product. This was/is a problem in the Babywearing forum, as well. I know of other places to shop. I'm savvy enough to make that decision for myself AND I appreciate being allowed by administration to make up my own mind.

In fewer words: I think what you've got going now is working. You'll know real SPAM when you see it and please deal with it accordingly. So far, so good, me thinks.
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