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Continuum concept (ish) Tribe - Page 13

post #241 of 1092
Haven't figured out the spitting thing myself--both girls either suck in air or stick their tounge out.

As far as the gates. Mia, now 13 mo, started crawling down the steps at 8 mos. Taught her to go to the top turn around and crawl down backwards. She has slipped once, but just off the bottom two steps. She tried to stand up and walk down when she was watching her big sister do it. No injuries and she didn't try it again. The steps are very close to the kitchen, so when I really wanted her to stay upstairs (while I was cooking) I would push a piece of furniture in front of the opening. I could never get comfortable with her playing downstairs without me down there. Now she has been walking for a couple of months and wants to walk down the stairs forwards, but she is way to short to reach the next step. She stands at the top and hangs one foot over the edge. I remind her to "sit down" and she does it the right way. She is a crazy daredevil however, and I sense she may soon be willing to endure pain to find a faster way down. We will see how that goes. Overall, she is very aware of height and edges and is careful about any kind of step wherever we are. With a gate I would worry that she would never learn about steps and would not be safe anywhere but our house.
post #242 of 1092

Yay!

Hi CC Mamas! I'm so excited to find this thread! I'm also on the TCC list and have been learning so much ever since I read the book when DC#2 was born. I think a lot of my instinct was seriously clouded by the way I was raised. I was always AP, but I didn't find my groove until I read TCC and realized I could meet my needs and my kids'. Anyway, I've loved reading this thread.
post #243 of 1092
I finally got this book through Inter Library Loan. I wonder how many public libraries have this? It would be worth putting in requests so that more people come across it when perusing the shelves. I am certainly going to do so here.

One of the reasons I enjoyed the book so much is that I don't get the feeling the author is trying to tell me what to do. Therefore she doesn't try to make things sound more do-able or more acceptable to her readers. We get to read exactly what she observed and what she thought and process it however we choose.

I find that some of the other parenting books that attempt to convey some of the same principles of trust, reciprocity, respect, etc do so in a much more heavy-handed manner precisely because they try so hard to acknowledge that we can't do these thigs all the time, and generally try to make what they are saying palatable to the reader. As if the goal was to produce a method that we could follow. Sometimes it seems like a dumbed-down version of TCC, to me.

I have lived among tribal families for short stretches and one of the very first things I noticed was that they simply do not order their children. I am neither an anthropologist nor a diamond miner and my interactions with the families were very different. But after reading TCC I could recall many of the qualities Liedloff has observed.
post #244 of 1092
Thanks for sharing, aravinda.


I'd love to hear more of your perspective of the tribe(s) you spent time with.
post #245 of 1092
An update in case anyone was curious how things were going with the 'wake up in a complete night-terror-esque-fit even during the days/naps' issue with the buggle.... seems that he just needs a really dependable schedule as far as rest, and as long as he doesn't get behind on sleep (solid 10-11 hours at night + 2-3 hour nap in the day), he's much better... AND interestingly enough, being too warm while sleeping, which results in him waking up all sweaty, also can trigger these episodes. Not that this is necessarily on topic, but I was really confused about how to deal with this whole thing from a CC point of view, since my instinct was to hold him in my arms and let him cry until he was finished so he would feel safety and my stability in my embrace, but he wouldn't let me touch him so it was just really confusing, the only really confusing thing that has left me without really knowing what to do according to instinct in my mothering journey thusfar.

So that's better... plus I am nursing him again now since I'm 'out of the woods' with the pregnancy, so to speak, carrying around a 6lb.+ baby who will be just fine if born anytime this month, so I don't worry about the contractions that nursing triggers any longer, although it is painful to nurse. Maybe that's helping him cope with his world and get less frustrated nowadays also....

My son loves to spit but doesn't do a great job--sort of like blowing his nose. He totally gets what I'm trying to get him to do, he just isn't great at it. He's SO careful when it comes to steps and things and I don't worry about him having an accident much, and we've never been anal about babyproofing by any means, but at my in-laws they have very slippery hardwood floors, my son is usually dressed in cotton or wool which makes him really slippery on the floors, and they have a stairway which is fatally dangerous if my son were to fall down towards the basement from the main floor (or down to the main level from the top floor).... they have no baby gates so we've always just been cautious and near him when he's by the stairs. I'm certain that with a new baby about to be born I won't feel as comfortable with this arrangement when we are visiting, with my attention comprimised amongst my two sons, and I will insist that they put a gate on their most dangerous stair-top for when we are visiting. I'm not sure how TCC that is, but.... I'd just feel so nervous with the wide open serious drop right there in the middle of the home with such slippery flooring.....which is a type of thing that wouldn't occur in nature (glossy hardwood floors next to by a very steep wooden staircase leading down) so I have to deal with these modern issues with modern solutions.
post #246 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by May May
I'd love to hear more of your perspective of the tribe(s) you spent time with.
:
post #247 of 1092

RE: Homosexuality hypothesis in TCC:

See http://www.continuum-concept.org/rea...sexuality.html
post #248 of 1092
. I'm not sure how TCC that is, but.... I'd just feel so nervous with the wide open serious drop right there in the middle of the home with such slippery flooring.....which is a type of thing that wouldn't occur in nature (glossy hardwood floors next to by a very steep wooden staircase leading down) so I have to deal with these modern issues with modern solutions.

Well I think that in addition to taking our childrens abilities and survival instinct into account our own comfort level in trusting it must also be accounted for and I think it is reasonable that we all have lines we draw at which point we arent comfortable with just trusting that everything will be OK.
I trust my kids to climb all over the couches and their low climbing equipment and their kid sized tables and chairs. (my mom just hovers and hates this so much! LOL) But I wouldnt be comfortable letting my 3 year old on the roof or playing by the street.
She mentions in the book that we can only hope to follow this part of the CC so much in modern society.
I dont think such dangers were absent in tribal societies. (anybody ever see pueblos? Families living right on cliff faces).
I do think that I can trust my children to safely navigate their environment for the most part, however, there comes a point where I have to step in too.

I just had an idea. If there was any way to affix the gate 3 steps down or so. The gate is not right there preventing the child from becoming familiar with his boundaries (the top of the stairs) But a fall wouldnt be dangerous.
I would just use the gate and not feel guilty.

p.s. Hi I'm Joline and I just found this thread.
I just read TCC a couple of months ago but this is pretty much how I always parented my oldest (now 13) I have been more protective of my younger 3 as an older mom but I am trying to become more in touch with my older wisdom and confidence.

Her insight about how western parents teach their chldren to run from them was a HUGE lightbulb for me! And I have almost ended the habit in my 21 month old son by simply not chasing him. LOL
Joline
post #249 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
.[I] I trust my kids to climb all over the couches and their low climbing equipment and their kid sized tables and chairs. (my mom just hovers and hates this so much! LOL) But I wouldnt be comfortable letting my 3 year old on the roof or playing by the street.
I let ds him climb all over the house, he used to sit on top of the fridge, he didn't goof off, he just liked to do it, he's a monkey. Grandma just about had a fit when she heard about that one, lol. Although the other day she commented how dd is so comfortable playing on the floor, she was worried 'cause I kept her in that sling all the time, thought I'd never be able to put her down. I told her that's she's probably comfortable being there because I keep her in the sling a lot and grandma even replied 'hmmm, she's more secure'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johub
.[I]
I have been more protective of my younger 3 as an older mom but I am trying to become more in touch with my older wisdom and confidence.

Joline
IKWYM, I do worry that I'm going to hover more over dd because it's been 8 years, I'm already more nervous over things I didn't think twice about with ds.
post #250 of 1092
That is so funny! WHy is that?
They say that it is the first time moms who are so nervous!
Not me.
My first baby was a miracle that just took over my life when I was very young.
My next was 10 years later, after 10 years of waiting. All that waiting can make a mama a little more protective maybe.
Joline
post #251 of 1092
my ds just started crawling a few months back and now is crusing around. My mom hated that we slept him in our bed (wanted a playpen or crib JUST for safety). ds did fall once and after that he religiously wakes up from his nap crawls to the edge and calls for me! Also just this week he started climbing out of the bed by himself! 9 mos old!! I am always close by and when I see his attempt I pay close attention in case he does slip (and I dive to keep his head from smacking) but he is pretty good! besides toys and logical babyproofing (cleaning supplies tucked away and precious things that could break tucked away) he has roams the house and i am always impressed.

I think it is important when you read a book or are going by a certain philosphy to blend it into your individual lifestyle. If you look at that shiny wood floor and those steps and feel uncomfortable find a way where you are comfortable but your baby still gets experience (i liked the gate with 3 or 4 stairs left for baby to climb) One of the huge differences between most of our lives and that of tribal lives is community. gramma, big sis, aunties, bros where all around and although their focus was not to protect the baby (or maybe it is at times?) that is what everyone does in the presence of a baby. Now I am home alone in a house and if I have to spend a few moments in the bathroom I do not feel comfortable leaving the front door open which leads to 4 concrete steps kwim? HOwever on the weekends and at night dh and our two roommates come home so I never worry what he is doing because there is always a person somewhere around to guide him if he finds himself in a sticky predicament. many of the people posting in this thread comment on how when they read the book they felt as though they had already been raising their children this way. that is the key...to parent intuitively and find inspiration and guidance from books and philosophies. It can be difficult to live up to the parenting standards of a tribe in the middle of a jungle when you live in suburbia in a single family home on a busy street. try to find some balance.
post #252 of 1092
well said hillary!!

I have a danger zone inmy house. on of my friends came over and asked if i was afraid Jewely would hurt herself. i said no, and she hasn't. it is dangerous to. a narrow hall with wood on the floor nails and toolboxes in there. something noone in their right this day and age mind would let a child walk through. but i do and I don't worry about it. she has been going through there since she started walking. (knock on wood :LOL )

then along the lines of power of suggestion, not a safety issue but i really view it in the same category. DD has an easel in her room with markers, crayons, and chalk. (the same mother mentioned above who incidently/coincidentaly gives her kids colorwonder arkers) asked(in front of Jewely and her DD) if i was afraid Jewely would color on anything like furniture/walls. i said no I had never thought of it and she had never done it.

well we leave the kids to play to come back in and they both have colored (luckily with the chalk) on the walls, furniture, and door!! DH and i totally view that as a power os suggestion/parent expectation thing. she was given a time out and now she doesn't color on anything else although she does color on the easel frame now, which she never did before.

Courtney

ps someday i am going to read through this whole thread. i had read it to my post but then it started really going and i have missed so much.
post #253 of 1092
I am mostly a lurker and have only been recently exposed to the continuum concept. I am fairly relaxed with my DS (almost two) and do pretty good with not hovering and with trusting him with things (I do call myself "mama" a lot when I talk to him though!) However, I have a problem when it comes to parks. DS loves to slide and I can't quite bear to let him go up and down the slides by himself without worrying and hovering about him falling off. In particular, this week we were at an older park with a metal slide with not very safe seeming, low rails. I could hardly stand myself with the way I was talking to him as he tried to slide--lots of "I'm worried that you'll fall!" and "be careful" and "remember to be safe on the slide!" and "don't lean over to the side like that" (he kept holding on to one side rail and being dragged onto his stomach as gravity pulled him down, lurching alarmingly near flipping totally off). I even said out loud to him that I literally was feeling myself making him neurotic. Is there a TCC way to deal with rickety slides?!

Molly
post #254 of 1092
We really loved the continuim concept! Both dh and I read it and we are trying to raise Elijah with those principles. I especially like the part where you need to trust your child's intelligence, and know that what you expect of them, they will try to fufill. But I get so worried that elijah will stop breathing while he's sleeping, and then I worry that my worry will cause him to do so. Anyone else get this kind of backward, superstitious thinking? I am really trying to work with it!
Stacey
post #255 of 1092
For Xanga-blogging mamas - I formed a CC blogring. Join, if you wish, here:
http://www.xanga.com/groups/group.aspx?id=1574451
post #256 of 1092
Hi,

I'm new to continuum concept and would love to learn more about this concept. Well, I'm not a wife or mother yet, will be in the future. I'm just a student of the subject now. Thank you.
post #257 of 1092
I haven't read TCC...but this has been such a fascinating thread to read, I definately will pick it up. Ironically, my little ones and i have been staying with my folks for two weeks now and my mom in particular is driving me quite nuts with all of her fears (germs, heights, fast speeds, drop-offs, water). Not only is my three year old somewhat straight jacketed, but i feel judged as a mother for not being more on top of him. I guess the trick is not to let all this judgement get in the way of my critical and clear thinking!

Anyway, all of this gives me lots to think about in terms of how I was raised. Something that comes to mind immediately is how ready I was to rebel as a teenager. I wonder how much of the reckless behavior people attribute to hormones or just a "phase" is really a reaction to the all of the fear and mistrust we are imbued with as little ones...
post #258 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmama
Anyway, all of this gives me lots to think about in terms of how I was raised. Something that comes to mind immediately is how ready I was to rebel as a teenager. I wonder how much of the reckless behavior people attribute to hormones or just a "phase" is really a reaction to the all of the fear and mistrust we are imbued with as little ones...
I do believe you've hit the nail on the head.
post #259 of 1092
Don't forget the fear and mistrust of teenagers by most of our society! I had a relatively smooth adolescence because of TCC parenting minimizing the idea of teens as a distinct species...but when I did clash w/my parents, it was almost always because they were afraid of my peers and/or weren't trusting me. I will admit that my friends sometimes suggested activities that weren't a good idea, but about 80% of the time I refused to participate; my parents rarely gave me any credit for that but instead would berate me for having been in a place where I even heard the suggestion! I'll also admit that there were times I did things they'd trusted me not to do, but those times were very few, yet whenever I asked permission to go out w/friends they'd say they couldn't trust me. My mother has a very derogatory attitude toward teens and made a lot of snide comments about them before, while, and after my brother and I were teens. I think that contributed to my feeling afraid of teens when I was a kid and then feeling afraid of "teenage behavior" when I saw it among my peers and also feeling crushingly self-conscious about my own urges to act "teenaged" in any way. Now that I'm an adult, there are times when I see teens doing things I think are dumb, but I try really hard to avoid making generalizations about teens because of this. All the teens at my church are very fine people, and I talk to them as people.

Edited to add: Does this mean coming-of-age rituals are not continuum? It's been awhile since I read the book, and I can't remember if the Yequana have any puberty ceremony or if Liedloff says anything about that.
post #260 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca
. I think that contributed to my feeling afraid of teens when I was a kid and then feeling afraid of "teenage behavior" when I saw it among my peers and also feeling crushingly self-conscious about my own urges to act "teenaged" in any way.
OMG I remember feeling the same way...like I always had to be composed and adult-like. I was pretty good at it but I still got ageism even when I was doing my best to act like the perfect adult! The i felt stupid because all the adults knew I was just a little kid trying to act grown up. How messed up!
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