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Continuum concept (ish) Tribe - Page 40

post #781 of 1092
Not sure who posted it, but the idea that different children (or parents) need different approaches sounds likely, to me. I suppose anything can be tweaked to sound like Continuum Concept, but I think that tweaking often waters down what Continuum Concept is; a child given unconditional freedom-- and that would include total freedom from putting our foot down with our children and pushing an issue with them.

If folks are looking for CC advice/discussion, then that is what will continue to occur on this thread. There are many ways to embrace the CC within our culture, THAT is where the discussion and nuances are abundant!

Real situations, real struggles with real openness to seek alternative perspectives and strategies are how I learn to move toward CC. Our culture has many obstacles to being closer to our natural states and all those benefits emotionally, psychologically, intellectually and mentally. We are all working toward more awareness of how that process can unfold in our lives. I hope that you feel welcome to discuss that process. It doesn't mean that folks are going to all agree. We certainly can only glimpse a fraction of a situation from a posted query. Assume that folks are wanting to help, and "try on" some ideas which on the surface seem counter-culture.


Pat
post #782 of 1092
i'd heard about the CC and been intrigued by it, and now reading your posts i'm even more so...i started off following some of the principles without even thinking about it, just AP style baby-wearing etc...but i'm fascinated by this concept of not being 'child-centred'.... i realise i have already been falling into that. its so hard not to when the culture is 'baby-ga-ga' around me.

what i was wondering is, if u practice these concepts, do you still involve toys? i mean, one of the principles of the book according to her website (i havent y et got hold of a copy of the book so bear with me!), is that western style child rearing is 'inadequately stimulating' babies with toys, inanimate objects, as opposed to just participating naturally in our everyday lives. So is there a place for toys and what have some of you CC -practicing moms out there done about this?
post #783 of 1092
Thanks, Princess Doll!

WuWei wrote:
Quote:
I think that tweaking often waters down what Continuum Concept is; a child given unconditional freedom
Sometimes I feel like you must have read a different book than I did! Yes, CC gives a child fewer conditions and more freedom than 20th-century-mainstream-Western parenting. But the book is full of examples of Yequana parents expecting their children to follow their lead or be left behind.
post #784 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post
But the book is full of examples of Yequana parents expecting their children to follow their lead or be left behind.

Yeah, I agree... but maybe there's something in that: children can be left behind. In our culture there's a lot of fear around that; as there is around a lot of other things that some of us have chosen to be authoritative about. If we don't bathe our children and then send them to school, we may have some problems with CPS, for instance.

And yet, I do feel that there is an expectation of obedience that is spoken of in the book. Rarely invoked, yes, which is important . But included in the Continuum.
I guess the question could be: how does one react to not being obeyed? Do I just do it myself? Do I discuss it with the child? Do I get angry? This may be where many of us differ.
post #785 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaya View Post

what i was wondering is, if u practice these concepts, do you still involve toys? i mean, one of the principles of the book according to her website (i havent y et got hold of a copy of the book so bear with me!), is that western style child rearing is 'inadequately stimulating' babies with toys, inanimate objects, as opposed to just participating naturally in our everyday lives. So is there a place for toys and what have some of you CC -practicing moms out there done about this?
We have toys, yes, but we try to keep them as simple and open-ended as possible. And we have lots of small-sized tools and housework items (broom, dustpan, baskets, etc) for ds to imitate , or join in with, our work.
post #786 of 1092
Zansmama wrote:
Quote:
I do feel that there is an expectation of obedience that is spoken of in the book.
Liedloff theorizes that children obey because their parents expect them to obey and because the continuum leads them to assume that older people know what's right. I think there's a lot to this. When my son is doing things we don't want him to do, sometimes it's true that I (or his father) am EXPECTING things to go wrong; we WANT things to go right, but we feel pessimistic about it happening, and somehow we're conveying that to the kid, who then fulfills our expectations.

About toys: We have quite a few (mostly gifts) but have done our best to avoid "interactive" toys that encourage unimaginative, object-focused play. We have mostly toy vehicles, animals, people, and buildings. EnviroKid also plays with many everyday objects, either using them as intended (example: old telephone) or using them for imaginative purposes (example: bath-mat used as carrying bag by a Grinch stealing our stuff). He also enjoys helping us work while also playing (example: pouring soapy water over dishes soaking in sink).
post #787 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnviroBecca View Post
(example: bath-mat used as carrying bag by a Grinch stealing our stuff).
Hey, the Grinch keeps stealing our stuff, too!
post #788 of 1092
I just read TCC, got to about page 12 of this thread, realized there are 40 pages : and so I'm just going to post.

Dd is 13 months, and I'd skimmed enough of this thread when she was smaller and before she was born that I feel pretty good about most of the choices I've made in raising her. What I'm most curious about right now is how to transition from baby to toddler. Most of the stuff is fairly straightforward - she does her thing, I do mine. She needs me, I'm there for her.

She still naps on me. I'm totally fine with that. But I see no end in sight... The only way I know to get her to fall asleep for a nap is to put her in the wrap and walk/sing her to sleep - it usually just takes about 5 minutes, if that. If we try to nurse to sleep in bed, it takes about 2 hours of quiet playing before she's ready to try sleeping. I'm really curious what everyone's take is on this - just continue wearing her until she's not interested in naps anymore? She'll magically outgrow it and be ready to sleep on the bed at some point, just like all the other milestones? Is it something I need to actively pursue? - even I'd rather take my naps on other people as well! Maybe I'm just expecting her to sleep too much?
post #789 of 1092
Hi, whoMe,

I believe in looking at your relationship with your child as a partnership. You work through everything as it comes, with the goal of joy and peace for both of you.

So there isn't really any set way to do things, there is no techniques, there isn't anything externally (outside of your own internal growth) for you to actively pursue.

Enjoy this time while your dd still wants to be worn in a sling. Live in the moment just as she does.

And sign up for Scott Noelle's Daily Groove messages (see my signature line).

Amy (who always seems to write just what I need to read myself)
post #790 of 1092
I've had the same thing happen. My dd is also 13 months and ever since she was a newborn I've had her in a carrier for her daytime naps and until recently, have had to wear her to help her fall asleep at night. When she was little, I couldn't put her down or she'd wake up and we'd start the whole thing over again. So, I just decided not to bother and have her do naps on me... until she got bigger and I could take her out of the carrier and put her in bed. Most of the times I would nurse her back to sleep but it wasn't much.

I recently found out I am pregnant and have so little energy (still in the first trimester). Our dd had been falling asleep on me (for bed) at around 11pm for the longest time. Sometimes she's get into a week or so of earlier bedtimes (on her own) and we'd just follow her instincts.

At some point, before bedtime, she went up to the bathroom and started patting on the bathtub so we gave her a bath. Every night, we'd just follow her lead. When she asked for a bath, we'd get it ready. I still would put her in a carrier and walk around, picking up toys and she'd just fall asleep. With the pregnancy, I needed a little more rest than that so we started asking if she was ready for a bath at 6:30pm. If she signed back "bath" then we'd do it, if not, we'd wait a bit and ask a little later. After the bath, she and I lie in bed, nurse and sing until she falls asleep. So far it's working. She's in darkness which seems to help her body realize that it's night time and the whole process helps me get more rest.

hope that helps.
post #791 of 1092
bump for octobermoon
post #792 of 1092
I saw the cc thread in books and came here to comment on it . . the woman has no children and sleeps with her monkeys. When I bought the book I was expecting something very different . . .
post #793 of 1092
woohoo! missing this thread, i am!

I've really been working on the expectation thing, and ds is SO responsive!

Let me tell you, at 5 years old, i really feel like I'm reaping the benefits of years of CC parenting. Ds is polite, thoughtful, helpful, independent, inventive, and very physical. (okay, polite, thoughtful, and helpful about 80% of the time. )
Dp and I were just talking about this today. We really like our little guy, and enjoy homeschooling him and hanging out. And so much of that is the way he's been raised. He's not overly dependent, he's not aggressive, he's responsive... again, most of the time: he is only 5, after all.
Also,, I think a lot of it is the way we look at ourselves as parents, how much pressure we put on ourselves, or not.
post #794 of 1092
i found you cc thread...thanks to some help from periwinkle....!

well i am working my way through reading the posts....can't wait.
subbing!
post #795 of 1092
Hi!

Okay. I think I need some help. Ds is 2.5 . I read CC before ds was born and totally agreed. We have tried to raise him this way. It was very easy as a baby....babywearing, cosleeping, taking him everywhere etc. It was pretty easy as he grew into toddlerhood. He was always one to come with me and was always attached to me all around the house. He would help me with various tasks etc.

Fastforward to now......
all I hear all day is "mama come play with me"
he doesn't seem interested in helping me with any tasks
he seems to be unhappy quite a bit


Okay....I really should point out that we have just recently moved a couple months ago. This move was really hard on ds. We have moved 3 times over the past 2 years. We have had no chance to make any community or tribe. This last move was our last one, but it really seemed to hurt ds the most. Sigh.

Ever since this past move, ds cannot stand other children. He literally cries his eyes out if a child comes over. He is afraid they will take his toys and he feels they are in his space. This makes it very hard to meet people. When we are at parks, occasionally he will want to leave or tell me he wants the other kids to leave.

Ds has always had open imaginative toys. Right now, he has blocks, trains, train table and tracks, trucks and wooden figures of animals and people. Also, a small house he can go in. Does he have too many toys? Has he just gotten too used to playing with me constantly because he doens't have a sibling and hasn't played with other children?

I've met some nice people here in Chicago, but it's tough to get to know them because ds can barely tolerate being around other kids and people lately. I suppose we have been "loners" (lived in rural Alaska for the last year) so maybe he just can't handle it?

I don't know....this move seemed to really throw it out of wack for us. 4-5 months ago I would have said that we were doing fine.

Ds is not a very adventurous kid. I have NEVER made it seem like he should not climb or do things. I have always been very trusting of his decisions.

Has anyone ever raised a "spirited child" or "highly sensitive child" in the CC style? Has this worked? Ds tested extremely high on this test on this page and it's helping me understand him better. I believe he got a 21 on the questionaire.
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/child.htm

I hope some of this made sense. I really feel that we have gotten away from something around here. Ds is bored senseless unless I am sitting at his train table with him. He is uhappy unless my life is revolving around him.

He can't stand my dh right now. He hardly lets him be near him. He has always chosen me over dh (I am the stay at home parent) but it is reaching extremes now. "Dada, I dont' want you to be by me. I don't want Dada to do this...I don't want Dad to do that"

I don't want ds to sound like a brat. He is a very intelligent, sweet kid. Gosh- I really feel like moving around so much really messed things up for us.

Any ideas?
post #796 of 1092
Okay. I've been reading some articles on the website for CC.

Maybe most of our troubles that have happened since we've moved are because we've become to child centered. Ugh! How did this happen!?

In Alaska, we didn't have many things to do etc. Ds and I just were around the house doing things, cleaning, hanging out, having our neighbor over etc. We read books and such, but I didn't ever "play" with him and his tiny amount of cars.

Since we got here, we have gotten more cars and trains and an entire train table for ds to play with. He wants me to play with him constantly and I had given in to that (maybe I felt guilty about moving him here)

Also, now that we live in a busy city we have started doing all sorts of "normal" kid type things. We go to the park all the time. We tried to do some playgroups (which ds hated because the kids were grabby and mean). Mostly we play around the house, read books, play trains, go for walks with him on his little bike, go to the park, store. We got all these different passes to go to kid places......nature museum, aquarium, field museum, etc. I guess as long as I like going to those places, we could still go.

What can I do differently? Tomorrow, when he's constantly asking me to play, how do I change this? What do I say? "I am going to ____. You are welcome to come and help me or bring a toy over here" Would that be good?

I think I may need to make attempts to be busy. I feel like I don't have much to do for some reason. I know that there is a lot that could be cleaned and organized.....I guess it's not my favorite thing to do sometimes.

I have totally fallen into that mentality that I just get things done when ds is in bed. That may have started because he started dropping his nap and going to bed at 7pm so I felt I had lots of time in the evening.

Okay- before hearing back from anyone here is my goal for tomorrow:

State the above statement when asked to play "I am doing.....join in or bring a toy"
Think of some places I might want to go to


Another thought.....maybe ds is SO mad at dh right now because when dh comes home he is trying to mend their relationship by offering to play with him but ds never wants to. He gets very angry and says he wants ME to play with him. Maybe ds shoudl just go about his business and do interesting things he wants to do and ds can just hang out. Maybe having dh try to play with ds is backfiring.


Along those lines.....what about that whole Playful Parenting thing that says kids do well when we give them 30 min a day of floor time when we play what they want to play? Not good?
post #797 of 1092
I'm sorry for posting so much....something has GOT to change around here.


One other question about potty learning. Yes, EC would have been ideal and we tried it at first, but it didn't work for ds. He cried every time I tried to potty him and didn't give any signals. I was too stressed by it and so was he.

So, now we are still in diapers at 3 and not making much progress. I'm trying not to make it a huge deal. I left him nakey tush today and he just peed on the towel I had on the floor (by his train table where he was playing) every time and then would tell me he peed.


What do you do for CC potty learning (I know the tribe doesn't do it that way, but what should I do now that I'm in this situation?) Just leave him nakey tush, explain what he can do and let him decide when to go in the toilet? And just keep cleaning up the messes without comment?
post #798 of 1092
We spent from age two to four remodeling our house (doing much of the work ourselves) and not really having other children over to our house during that time. I remember being shocked that my child who had shared so sweetly at age two and a half, could no longer share. She got terribly stressed anytime friends came over, when we finally had a space to have company. I remember it taking a good six months to "settle." She's fine now, but it was a rough re-entry period.

My second thought for you, is that your little one is looking for power, and has found some buttons to push to get that power, since his whole world has changed 3X and he had no control over that. I don't think major moves are part of our healthy continuum...you know? I think you just have to nurture, nurture, nurture your family connections to get back to an equilibrium as a family, and things will start to fall back into place as time passes and you settle into your new community. FWIW - the "normal" kid activities haven't been a hit with my kids either, and I realized I was doing them for my own sense of community, rather than theirs. Don't try to hard on that front, just make connections where they seem natural, at the market, library, out walking, neighbors.
post #799 of 1092
Jrose, we've had many of the same problems you have over the past year (EnviroKid is 3 years 8 months) and we have NOT moved or had any major disruption! I think it has a lot to do with this stage of life, the transition from baby to more autonomous person. We can make it as smooth as possible with the continuum, but because of developments in brain structure and so forth it's still going to be a somewhat turbulent time--like adolescence.

I think you're really on the right track with backing away from the child-centeredness and having your own things to do. At the same time, though, it's important to respect the things your child "needs to get done" to some extent. This is easier as he gets more verbal. EnviroKid often asks me to play with him, but he also often wants to do tasks that are useful or imitating a useful task, for example, "I need to write some things in my checkbook." which means he's going to flip thru his small notepad scribbling on various pages and ripping out some of them. When possible, I respond to his desire to work on something by working with or alongside him: "Oh, I need to write some things in my checkbook, too," and take that opportunity to pay the bills. After all, that's how I want him to respond to my needing to get things done! I flex my schedule to accommodate him, and vice versa. Not that it works all the time!! But it helps.

When you go to "kid places", do what YOU want to do there and avoid hovering over your son. That doesn't mean you can't play together. Just walk into it like you know what to do there, instead of acting like this is all for him and it's up to him to decide what to do.

Speaking of which, EnviroDaddy recently took up parkour, a sort of sport that you can do in the everyday environment. Very continuum. Now when he goes to the playground with EnviroKid, he immediately starts jumping all over the equipment (being careful of kids, of course!) and gets some good exercise while leaving EnviroKid to imitate (he's very sensible about what to attempt) or play on his own. I've been doing some of this, too; I'm not as acrobatic, but I do like climbing and jumping, and they are useful skills for taking shortcuts.

Quote:
maybe ds is SO mad at dh right now because when dh comes home he is trying to mend their relationship by offering to play with him but ds never wants to. He gets very angry and says he wants ME to play with him. Maybe ds shoudl just go about his business and do interesting things he wants to do and ds can just hang out.
We're still trying to solve an "I don't like Daddy" problem, too, but one thing we've learned is: It's just deadly for EnviroDaddy to "offer to play" or "try to play" with EnviroKid on purpose with the intention of healing. It seems so kind and generous, but it boils down to a sort of wheedling to get the kid to fix the problem: "Come on, wouldn't it be nice to have fun together? Show me what's fun. See how I'm trying to win your acceptance?"

It works a lot better when EnviroDaddy tells EnviroKid that he's about to do something really interesting and then lets him join in if he wants to: "Look, I bought a new door lock. I'm going to take out the old one and put this one in." Then start doing it, responding to requests for involvement: "The drill is too heavy for you, but I need someone to hold the screws." Talk about what you're doing as long as the kid is hanging around. My dad was excellent at this, and as a result I'm semi-familiar with things like resistors and gears even though they're not so high on my list of personal interests.

Quote:
what about that whole Playful Parenting thing that says kids do well when we give them 30 min a day of floor time when we play what they want to play?
I find that when I try to do that (usually out of guilt that I'm not paying enough attention to my child), he's extremely bossy and critical; it's no fun for me because everything I do is "wrong" to him. If I'm going to play what he wants to play, he figures it should be played EXACTLY as he plans it. I find this very upsetting. : Instead, once in a while I'll start playing with some toys, and when he comes over to see what I'm doing I tell him about it, and then if he starts offering ideas I model how we accept input from playmates.

Toilet training: After lots of naked time and explaining how convenient it is to use the toilet, we did a sticker chart. Not very continuum-sounding, but it was very effective very quickly. It seemed to help EnviroKid understand that this was something he could do for himself, not just because we wanted him to, and once he did he was very good at it, with hardly any accidents.
post #800 of 1092
Thank you for your replies! We are implimenting some things today and it has gone fairly well.

I'm kind of confused on the "playing with your kid" thing still though. I do like the idea EnviroBecca (sp?) said about sitting down to play when I feel like it and having him join me.

What are others thoughts on this? Do all of you play with your kids at any point in the day? Or do you just do ordinary tasks together and run errands, leaving them to play on their own when they feel like it?

Also, do you guys think it sounds like we have too many toys? Did I do a bad thing by buying more in the past few months?

We have toy cars, trains, train tracks, a wooden noah's ark and animals, a train table. We have some other various wooden push toys and a little house that ds can go in from Bazoongi kids. It's all very open ended. I hope we just don't have too much or it's been making things negative in some way. Today, ds played a little, but he mostly followed me around (which is what he used to do more until I started playing with him incessently for some reason....WHY would I do that?)

Okay....I'll keep updating. Keep giving me advice! I can't believe that I got so far from doing CC. Yikes.....time to make changes.
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