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Continuum concept (ish) Tribe - Page 41

post #801 of 1092
Sure I play with my kids! I am a firm believer than if every cell in your body is telling you to do something, better hop to. I mean, playing with my kids is enjoyable and so yes I do. And I'm totally at the concept of wanting to play with your kids but somehow preventing yourself from doing it because you read in a book somewhere not to. Makes no sense. I think the big difference however is that I do not FOCUS on my kids 24/7, if there's something I need to do, I usually do it, and so on. I think it's almost a mindset difference, where you have adult things to accomplish and your kids may join you and are encouraged to do so VS. being down on the floor with your kids at the expense of taking care of your other responsibilities. I'd say the day is roughly split between 1.) me doing things I need to do period and encouraging the kids to either help and/or play by themselves (like doing dishes, doing laundry, cleaning, decluttering/tidying), 2.) me doing things that need to get done but that the kids really enjoy doing too so we all do it together (like working in the garden, running errands, cooking, cleaning out the garage or similar home chores), and 3.) me taking some time to spend with them just doing kid activities (like reading to them, arts & crafts, playing trains, riding bikes, family movie night, etc.). I'm a numbers gal, lol, so I'd guess that the breakdown on an AVERAGE day is something like 35/50/15 respectively.
post #802 of 1092
Hi there! In the interest of limiting FYT to subjects not hosted elsewhere on the board, we have moved your tribe here. You're still a tribe, which means you're still support-only. If you have any questions about the move, please do not discuss it on the boards. Rather, contact an administrator or start a thread in Questions and Suggestions. Thanks, and happy posting!
post #803 of 1092
jrose,

You know I kind of had the same thought as another mama- 2-3 yrs is a big transition age. Just keep nurturing! This will pass and you will find the clues little by little about how to help keep your family balanced and flowing.

I also agree about not trying to avoid playing. I actually notice that if I wake up, make my tea and lay on the floor (stretching and doing some exercising) first thing in the morning we have a much better time. I realized its because they love having me on their level. I do my thing (tea and stretch) but they are playing around me, on me, singing with me, asking me to read books etc. When I skip that time they seem to follow me around at the ankles whining, but if we connect really solidly they are able to function much more independently.

This happens throughout the day. I notice after I have focused on cleaning, cooking, computer time that if I check in and offer to read books, set up the craft table whatever things flow better.

Another thing you have to remember you are missing from the cc is older playmates. In a tribal setting there were the older kids to play and entertain the younger ones. Now it is just you. so keep this in mind. cc is just this women's ever so insightful observations. you know need to look at your modern life and see how you can best apply the gems of knowledge, but it is by no means a black and white manual of how to raise your kid, yk?


On another note, we have just moved to a new community, and we keep getting comments on how "independent" our kids are. Both of them are very differently personalities but both are able to play solo for good amounts of time and then come find me when they need something (drink, hugs, food etc). I was commenting to dh on how we keep getting this feedback and he said, "well, its b/c we read about all of this before youhad ds1. remember that book about not following you kid around." It was so funny that he remembered thus prompting me to check out this tribe again.
post #804 of 1092
Just a quick update. I am seeing a WORLD of difference around here. We have had three really good days together. And it's all because we have dropped being child centered. Ds seems really relived. He is happy a lot more of the time and happy to play by himself or help me. It is amazing. Thank goodness we figured out what we were doing before our baby is born in April/May.

Speaking of that.....any advice out there for making a transition to two kiddos? We just told ds about the baby today and he is very excited so far. I'm sure he has no idea what it really entails though. I was kind of considering buying him a waldorf doll and sling and another doll for me. Then I would wear the doll for the last month or so and start doing all the baby stuff. Diaper changes, nursing, babywearing etc. I was wondering if it might help him not be so shocked after the baby is born. Hmmm.....I don't know. Ds isn't big on changes.
post #805 of 1092
cross posted jrose!

so glad things are going better!


my boys are 3 years apart and to tell you the truth we just made pregnancy and baby prep such a normal part of our lives that i don't think it was that big of change, kwim? for example, the months before the baby came we had spoken of the baby so many times, kissed the baby before bed, sang songs, told stories of how the baby would come out, told him stories of him being a baby that he was very ready. I did go 3 weeks past my edd and i think he picked up on our "waiting" vibes and had a really rough week in there somewhere, but he handled the new baby like a champ! We really emphasized being the "big bro" and all the cool things about it. Pointed out other siblings etc.

he's going to do great!
post #806 of 1092
I don't know if I'd wear a sling myself... Ds would know that it was fake, and might be weirded out...
But as far as a sibling goes, by far the best method I have seen is to treat it as though you are getting a new pet: "... and this is your new baby brother, no-one else's, and we have to take really good care of him so he'll grow big and strong to play with you."
De-emphasize the "my new baby" and emphasize "new member of our team/family". I've seen this prevent jealousy, and definitely help to create strong bonds.
i'm so jealous, myself. I wish ds had a (not newborn ) baby to tote around and nurture. It's SO part of the continuum.
post #807 of 1092
Subbing to come back and read. We use a lot of cc stuff around here, heck my mother used it with me too!

My first dd majorly whined and cried well into her 2nd yr until I finally stopped being so child centered. It was a big, positive change for our whole family.

I love wearing my babies and have done so/still do so often.
post #808 of 1092
this is really interesting...what i'm wondering is, what to do if most of the things you can do that are NOT child-centred, are incredibly boring? I find I start feeling depressed, bored and unfulfilled if I spend all day doing housework, or indeed, just being around the house. it may improve when we soon move into a house with a garden, bc i look forward to doing some gardening and possibly getting DS involved with that when he's a bit older. but at the moment it just feels like there's little I can do in terms of MY interests or 'things i need to do', bc al the things i really want to do (like writing, reading etc) are stationary, not moving, and DS gets fussy and bored then (understandably). He also plays happily on his own for longer periods now, but will often do the whole 'clinging to my leg' thing. He crawls (only started recently) but doesn't do it that much, is more of a content to be where he is kind of baby.

the CC really resonates with me, and I feel that I have been intuitively practicing many elements of it, I notice this particularly in how I sometimes feel 'guilty' when I see how some mom friends of mine are so 'all over' their kids and everything they plan all day is for their kids...i.e. this 'group' and that 'group', courses, swimming, etc...all of it is for them... and I'm not like that. I plan to see a friend bc I enjoy their company...or i go for a walk to the park bc i like to, and DS comes along and is happy...and I was starting to think i was just 'selfish', so its good to come back to this tribe!

at the moment my week consists of things like volunteering at a breastfeeding drop in, where DS is pretty independent and just 'comes and gets me' if he needs, or he is being 'worn'; meeting other moms in the park or at their houses with their babies; going to support group twice a week which is child friendly but not child-centred'; doing yoga in the mornings while DS plays around me; going for walks in the park, looking at ballgames and dogs with DS loves; and of course housework (but not much of it!)
post #809 of 1092
I really liked the book, but I am left with a lot of thoughts and questions (some of which are probably already discussed on here). But first let me start with an observation.

I went to a play group with my sister (her kids are 3 and 18 mo.), and none of the moms could just relax and let all of the preschool and toddler aged kids play together, including my sister. There were 4 moms including myself and it was constant hovering the whole time. I was wearing my baby and we were pretty much just observing, because the moms were so obsessed with their kids that there was no point in trying to have an adult conversation. Which is the whole reason I went, to be around other moms instead of at home alone with ds. The whole time the moms were saying things like, don't kick the woodchips; you can't go over there without me; don't leave this area; only go down this slide... etc. I really couldn't believe it. This is an example of what I don't want to be!

That said. Even before I read the book and knew about the concept, I was pretty much doing it. I wear ds most of the day with the exception of him being in the carseat when in the car. We co-sleep and all the rest. But I wonder sometimes about swaddling. I have swaddled ds since day one especially during the night. I just wonder because the blanket is covering everything but his head, there isn't much skin on skin contact. But during the early days of breastfeeding especially, we couldn't have done without it (his arms were crazy). Any thoughts on this?

Ever since I read the book, I quetion everything I'm doing. I try to go with my instinct, but it's hard to follow sometimes. People talk about contuum babies being soft and easy to hold. My ds is sometimes, but he has this weird thing with wanting his legs straight, knees locked and everything, since he was about 2 weeks old. He never was very good at the newborn froggy position. And I wonder if I've done something wrong or if it is just the way he is. He loves to stand eventhough he can't do it on his own yet.

I apologise for rambling on, I'm just glad I found this thread so that I can express my thoughts and concerns.
post #810 of 1092
i think we have to remember that despite our best efforts, our babies will probably not be completely continuum: our society is just so not continuum at all. I also wondered this about ds: he was in constant motion, always, and I would never have described him as "soft", exactly... however, i really didn't start CC-ing until he was 9 mos, or so, already walking, and not being worn much unless he was sick or teething...
post #811 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaya View Post
this is really interesting...what i'm wondering is, what to do if most of the things you can do that are NOT child-centred, are incredibly boring? I find I start feeling depressed, bored and unfulfilled if I spend all day doing housework, or indeed, just being around the house. it may improve when we soon move into a house with a garden, bc i look forward to doing some gardening and possibly getting DS involved with that when he's a bit older. but at the moment it just feels like there's little I can do in terms of MY interests or 'things i need to do', bc al the things i really want to do (like writing, reading etc) are stationary, not moving, and DS gets fussy and bored then (understandably). He also plays happily on his own for longer periods now, but will often do the whole 'clinging to my leg' thing. He crawls (only started recently) but doesn't do it that much, is more of a content to be where he is kind of baby.

)
i would remember that reading or writing is not exactly in the continuum, so dc don't understand that as "work" until they are a bit older. But hey, it's not in the continuum to sit around the house being isolated either! i think getting out and being with friends is super important, esp. with a very little one.
i would also encourage you to try getting into more smple 'work' like sewing or knitting, or making things. As ds gets older, he will be wanting to help, and he will definitely recognize these things as work and be more willing to let you alone. I used to always take some kind of "work" with me to the playground so that ds would play with the other kids while I talked with grownups.Actually, now that i think back, we spent many hours every day at the park in a sort of tribal situation...

Also, i think you said he is crawling: I would really encourage you to let him fully realize this "creeping" stage. It is very important to development in many ways. Let him ask to be lifted now (mostly). Of course you will not refuse... At this point he is transitioning from the "in-arms" stage.
i still carried ds in the sling when he wanted to be carried, but most of the time, he wanted to creep around and explore. If the little ones are used to having their needs met, they will not hesitate to make their needs known.
post #812 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
i would remember that reading or writing is not exactly in the continuum, so dc don't understand that as "work" until they are a bit older. But hey, it's not in the continuum to sit around the house being isolated either! i think getting out and being with friends is super important, esp. with a very little one.
i would also encourage you to try getting into more smple 'work' like sewing or knitting, or making things. As ds gets older, he will be wanting to help, and he will definitely recognize these things as work and be more willing to let you alone. I used to always take some kind of "work" with me to the playground so that ds would play with the other kids while I talked with grownups.Actually, now that i think back, we spent many hours every day at the park in a sort of tribal situation...

Also, i think you said he is crawling: I would really encourage you to let him fully realize this "creeping" stage. It is very important to development in many ways. Let him ask to be lifted now (mostly). Of course you will not refuse... At this point he is transitioning from the "in-arms" stage.
i still carried ds in the sling when he wanted to be carried, but most of the time, he wanted to creep around and explore. If the little ones are used to having their needs met, they will not hesitate to make their needs known.
thanks for that - you've given me some food for thought...i have been considering getting into some things like knitting...i am not a very 'practical' person and knitting was the only kind of thing like that, that i was ever good at at school...

re the crawling, well i'm wondering about this transitional phase, bc he's only recently started crawling and actually doesn't 'use' the skill that much, often seeming to prefer being held or carried around. I give him lots of opportunity to get around but sometimes it's just too much 'whining' and so I pick him up again. He uses it more when we're out and about with other babies, and when there's new things to explore. but i think that will change... I also still have that strong instinct to pick up and carry him and i don't know if that's 'correct' for this stage anymore...i guess we as mothers 'transition' too when these changes happen!
post #813 of 1092
Hey, for sure you should pick him up if he wants you to!!! Of course he is still "just" a baby, and needs a lot of contact: don't get me wrong.
But when he is crawling and exploring, I would be hesitant to pick him up. I would let him come to me, or call me. many parents will just snatch up a child who is a little frustrated that he can't grab a toy: when perhaps they should let him keep trying until he gets it.
Follow your instincts, though, for sure.
post #814 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by myrrhmaid View Post
i'm re-reading tcc right now after reading it 14 yrs. ago when i had my son.
i'm trying to get to the point where i can learn to be my best parent-since mine were sadly lacking in many ways.
her descriptions of a baby kicking, aching, skin crawling, longing to be held/touched reminds me so much of myself as a listless child. it is excruciating emotionally to read her descriptions.
anyone else trying to make peace with their own lack of parenting through tcc?
i'm just about 1/2 way through and hoping to find some solid things i can do.
i'm curiuos about the riding roller coasters etc.
i haven't got that far yet-and don't remember it from the 1st time through.
nak
Yep. It's been a long time since I read the book, and I didn't make the connection right away. I didn't sling much, but held my babies a lot. I got to sling my youngest more due to having to take meds, so I wasn't so milky, I would have been soaked to my shoes other wise. I found a way to hold my babies so didn't spray all over through all my layers. I literally stuffed dishtowels in my bra. I found great success with a rebozo with my son and wore him on my back regularly until he was about 4. I have gone through some serious recovery and stabalizing due to mental health issues and I'd like to get back to this way of life. My dp is recovering from being beaten regularly as a child, well he hasn't dealt with it at all but he is trying to follow my lead and does honor my gentle parenting approach as best he can. He has trouble with tone of voice and wording. My kids are 6.5 and 7.5 currently schooled, but most of the school employees are folks my dp grew up with and are part of the community and we see them regularly outside of school. We live in a very small village in _rural_ west Michigan. I bake for them frequently and work on my mental health while they are at school, but I also regularly go to school and kinda hang out and participate. My copy of CC is deeply buried in storage, but I remember it well from the baby perspective, but now that my kids are older, I'm a little unsure of how to move back into it. The best way for me to have community is to be involved with the school b/c all the folks who homeschool are very brimstone and fire you'll burn in hell for everything kind folks and I just can't fit into that. Plus, they do it at home with their kids, not so much communally, but I only have 2 kids, not 8 or 12.

Thoughts?
post #815 of 1092
In no particular order here are the things that I find very important at being CC with older children (and I should caveat all of this by saying I'm not actually *trying* to be CC or follow any specific parenting program, but I find an affinity between some of the points in CC and a general desire on my and dh's part to better connect our kids with the natural experiences and environments that have promoted healthy growth and development for millenia):

1.) Let kids be in nature as much as possible. REAL nature... not manufactured nature like zoos or plastic playgrounds, but nature walks, streams, hikes, woods, lying on the grass looking at the sky, digging in the mud, etc etc.

2.) ZERO video games.

3.) Minimum TV. We do let the kids watch TV now (they didn't until they were 4 1/2) and we very much enjoy things like Movie Night. In fact, some movies (dare I say this, lol) such as "Swiss Family Robinson" are extremely interesting to my kids. No ads ever.

4.) Very careful about books. We read a lot of books, but I am really careful about what messages the books are sending. I look for books that include nature, are about exploration, provide reinforcing messages about how to treat people, etc.

5.) Foster sense of personal responsibility for our home/garden and for our community. We don't do allowance, for example, and my kids are never paid for doing chores around the house. They pitch in and help out when needed, and there are also specific things ("chores", but we don't call them that) that they have to take care of each day. In terms of community, little things like while walking down the street if we see trash, we pick it up, to big things like volunteering for charity.

6.) Maintaining a garden. The kids help out with ALL yardwork, as a matter of course, almost daily. We also have a vegetable garden this year which has been more of a learning tool than I ever could have imagined, and beyond that they seem to have a real pride in providing for our family.

7.) Down with commercialism and consumer culture. No characters, no brand consciousness. This doesn't mean they're not aware of what things cost... they are (and IMO should be). But they don't perceive clothes from X store to be better than clothes from Y store, and certainly not that it confers any value onto them as people to wear A brand or B style. But we DO talk about things like, hmmm, this dress from Hanna Andersson is $39... let's see, that is about how much money we spend each month on milk or electricity to run the lights. We look at other options or we buy the dress but ask her to take care of it. It's not about guilt, it's about understanding that money doesn't grow on trees for ANYONE and just because we want something doesn't mean we run right out and buy it.

8.) Cooking with us / visiting farms / local food movement. Our kids know why we don't eat bananas in July. They know why we don't buy apples from Chile. They come with us to local farms to pick fruit and veggies, and select our meat, eggs, etc. They cook with us and come with me to the grocery store even though, sure it would be easier for me to go myself. I think there's a big tie in with appreciating where food comes from and what real foods is.

The one area where, if I had to do it all over again (lol) I would change is the toys. I think because our first were twins and the first grandchildren for some of their grandparents, they got pretty impressively spoiled. We have a lot of toys. Now we have never done blinking light/character plastic stuff, but still... a lot of toys are a lot of toys even if it's Haba and Magic Cabin and Playmobil and wood etc. I think the issue is almost more the fact that they're TOYS as oppsoed to what they're made out of -- does that make sense or do you all think I'm crazy, lol?? I mean, we have a playroom. It's filled with toys. I am really good about going through it with the kids and filling boxes to donate, but still... we have a room in our house devoted to.... to.... things. Wouldn't do that one over again if I could. I still fantastize about sneaking in there and packing up everything except the most beloved toys. And compared to a lot of other people, we have few toys (and of course compared to many people, we have so much - not trying to sound ungrateful at all it's not that it's just when I think about what my kids actually get enjoyment out of it's a.) doing something (esp. a project) with us, and b.) being outside. And books. Hmm.... writing all this out is making me think with the start of school, I need to rethink the toy thing and how we handle it in our home.

Sorry to ramble on. Just the questions about how to do this with older kids is near and dear to my heart since I technically only have older kids now (3 y.o. and two 6 y.o.'s).

: to read others' ideas on this.
post #816 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
In no particular order here are the things that I find very important at being CC with older children (and I should caveat all of this by saying I'm not actually *trying* to be CC or follow any specific parenting program, but I find an affinity between some of the points in CC and a general desire on my and dh's part to better connect our kids with the natural experiences and environments that have promoted healthy growth and development for millenia):

1.) Let kids be in nature as much as possible. REAL nature... not manufactured nature like zoos or plastic playgrounds, but nature walks, streams, hikes, woods, lying on the grass looking at the sky, digging in the mud, etc etc.

2.) ZERO video games.

3.) Minimum TV. We do let the kids watch TV now (they didn't until they were 4 1/2) and we very much enjoy things like Movie Night. In fact, some movies (dare I say this, lol) such as "Swiss Family Robinson" are extremely interesting to my kids. No ads ever.

4.) Very careful about books. We read a lot of books, but I am really careful about what messages the books are sending. I look for books that include nature, are about exploration, provide reinforcing messages about how to treat people, etc.

5.) Foster sense of personal responsibility for our home/garden and for our community. We don't do allowance, for example, and my kids are never paid for doing chores around the house. They pitch in and help out when needed, and there are also specific things ("chores", but we don't call them that) that they have to take care of each day. In terms of community, little things like while walking down the street if we see trash, we pick it up, to big things like volunteering for charity.

6.) Maintaining a garden. The kids help out with ALL yardwork, as a matter of course, almost daily. We also have a vegetable garden this year which has been more of a learning tool than I ever could have imagined, and beyond that they seem to have a real pride in providing for our family.

7.) Down with commercialism and consumer culture. No characters, no brand consciousness. This doesn't mean they're not aware of what things cost... they are (and IMO should be). But they don't perceive clothes from X store to be better than clothes from Y store, and certainly not that it confers any value onto them as people to wear A brand or B style. But we DO talk about things like, hmmm, this dress from Hanna Andersson is $39... let's see, that is about how much money we spend each month on milk or electricity to run the lights. We look at other options or we buy the dress but ask her to take care of it. It's not about guilt, it's about understanding that money doesn't grow on trees for ANYONE and just because we want something doesn't mean we run right out and buy it.

8.) Cooking with us / visiting farms / local food movement. Our kids know why we don't eat bananas in July. They know why we don't buy apples from Chile. They come with us to local farms to pick fruit and veggies, and select our meat, eggs, etc. They cook with us and come with me to the grocery store even though, sure it would be easier for me to go myself. I think there's a big tie in with appreciating where food comes from and what real foods is.

The one area where, if I had to do it all over again (lol) I would change is the toys. I think because our first were twins and the first grandchildren for some of their grandparents, they got pretty impressively spoiled. We have a lot of toys. Now we have never done blinking light/character plastic stuff, but still... a lot of toys are a lot of toys even if it's Haba and Magic Cabin and Playmobil and wood etc. I think the issue is almost more the fact that they're TOYS as oppsoed to what they're made out of -- does that make sense or do you all think I'm crazy, lol?? I mean, we have a playroom. It's filled with toys. I am really good about going through it with the kids and filling boxes to donate, but still... we have a room in our house devoted to.... to.... things. Wouldn't do that one over again if I could. I still fantastize about sneaking in there and packing up everything except the most beloved toys. And compared to a lot of other people, we have few toys (and of course compared to many people, we have so much - not trying to sound ungrateful at all it's not that it's just when I think about what my kids actually get enjoyment out of it's a.) doing something (esp. a project) with us, and b.) being outside. And books. Hmm.... writing all this out is making me think with the start of school, I need to rethink the toy thing and how we handle it in our home.

Sorry to ramble on. Just the questions about how to do this with older kids is near and dear to my heart since I technically only have older kids now (3 y.o. and two 6 y.o.'s).

: to read others' ideas on this.
We kind of already do a lot of this.

We live very rurally. I volunteer at an organic CSA so my kids are exposed to that. We bake and cook together since we have to work around food intolerances and I have to bake anyway. We have lots of animals, they play outside all the time. We have a crick, chickens who make our eggs, goats - not ready to take on milking yet, maybe after I can get a garden going here, we go 2 tracking all the time and go exploring, we hunt morels every year daily through the whole season and see a lot of new life developing. we always talk about the weather vs. certain plant development and whether the baby gardener snakes are all over yet, we see new birds and snakes to look up each year. We see other mushrooms and look those up. I have to be so cautious though because those can be poisonous to touch. My son's favorite book is a HUGE almanac he found at this cool used & rare book store - it's a 4 story warehouse - we spend hours in there! It was the most expensive book in our pile by far but he was so taken with it I got it and he has made it worth it's price. He looks through it all the time asking questions, making up stories, comparing fiction to what he sees on the maps.

We are too close in our budget to do an allowance, but the kids help out, I just include them in what I'm doing when they aren't absorbed in their own thing or helping Matt outside.

I do hate their toys and the TV. Matt has been VERY VERY ill at times and can't stand to not have it on ( he doesn't read - he started working full time at 13 and paid the neighbor girl to do all his school work). He also has tinnitus so the back round noise helps with that. I miss silence! and my x's mother introduced them to disney and polyethylene plastic toys early on. yuck.

I am sewing a lot of my daughter's clothes this year, which I have done before. I am hoping she'll be interested this time around.

They both lov elearning, we recycle together, there's a new AFC home down the street and I thought we might make them cards at holidays and birthdays. When i was young I was in Campfire and we used to do valentines for veterans and a nursing home thing at christmas, and plant stuff at a retirement community in the spring. I thought it would be nice to do together since a lot of folks in these homes don't have a lot of family in a lot of cases.

I guess I'm not too far off, just have a bit of a sabatour in my dp when it comes to TV and burning plastic etc ugh. At least he doesn't put full aerosol cans in the fire pit and hide behind the propane tank to see how big the mushroom cloud is anymore. I wouldn't stand for that. It was pre me days or I might wring his pretty little neck!
post #817 of 1092
no time to read all 41 pages now,but great tribe. I identify with TCC alot sometimes more so than AP. I may be splitting hairs., but the hovering is a big deal to us. I constantly hear how coordinated and daring my kids are, and no one adds "for girls" on the end. My dds put most rough and tumble boys to shame, and I really think it is due to the backseat we have taken with their play. I am half asleep so please forgive my loopiness, just really loved finding this.
post #818 of 1092
wow, thanks for this. i had never heard of this and just a quick scan of the concepts feels so intuitively correct to me.

SO many childrearing theories seem to me to be all about the emotional needs of a parent masquerading as the emotinal needs of the child. and so many parents who dont even know they have emotional needs or wounds that they are trying to clear by "doing it differently with their child".

interesting stuff.
post #819 of 1092
by the way, what is AP?
post #820 of 1092
attachment parenting
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