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Continuum concept (ish) Tribe - Page 45

post #881 of 1092
All this talk about reading has inspired me to ask something that I was wondering about before.

What about Continuum Concept and Homeschooling? Obviously during the day there are many opportunities to do what you need to do and have your children help or play.

I guess my question is.....is unschooling the only option for homeschooling that would seem CC? Or would a curriculum work as well?

Or is homeschooling just in a whole different world than CC and too difficult to relate it to that? Obviously, the Yequena (sp?) tribe did not do homeschooling as many people do today, but instead the children learned how to do tasks when they were ready etc.

Just would be interested on hearing thoughts!
post #882 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrose_lee View Post
All this talk about reading has inspired me to ask something that I was wondering about before.

What about Continuum Concept and Homeschooling? Obviously during the day there are many opportunities to do what you need to do and have your children help or play.
We homeschool and I love TCC. I do not see them as mutually exclusive. Although we unschooled for the first 10 years, I definitely think you can practice a form of eclectic schooling without defying the basics of TCC.

Kolleen
post #883 of 1092
so what do you do when you are trying to incorporate the CC into your 3-yo's life but she resists? We bought her a little wooden toolset for Christmas so she can do her own handiwork throughout the house while I am doing mine (we just moved in so I'm hanging a lot of pictures, etc.), but the entire time she just whined about wanting the "real tools" that I was using. She's a little young to be handling hammers and nails, esp since she hasn't been raised with CC so she doesn't have those "safety instincts" intact.

Also, I did wear her a lot until she was about a year old, when she became too heavy- but I didn't stop carrying her. Only when I had my hands full did I refuse. She spent a lot of time just hanging out on my person in general. Yet now, at almost 3, she still cries for me to carry her ALL the time. Even inside our apartment, she will cry if I don't carry her to and from the kitchen, bedroom, etc. She does have her "walk by myself" moments but they are usually pretty short, unless she happens to be in the mood to run around (and away from me!), which is only a couple times a day.

How can I fulfill her need to be close and carried but do CC stuff that assumes her independence??
post #884 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoliMum View Post
so what do you do when you are trying to incorporate the CC into your 3-yo's life but she resists? We bought her a little wooden toolset for Christmas so she can do her own handiwork throughout the house while I am doing mine (we just moved in so I'm hanging a lot of pictures, etc.), but the entire time she just whined about wanting the "real tools" that I was using.
Playing with toys designed to look like grown-ups' tools and appliances is definitely NOT CC. The whole point is allowing kids to do real work, not playing at doing work.

My 3 year-old is allowed to use a screwdriver, change batteries, sand wood, paint, etc. He helps dh "bleed" the radiators in the fall and he is learning how to make a fire in the woodstove (crinkling newspaper, laying kindling into a cool stove, etc.

If working with tools isn't a good idea due to your safety concerns, allow her to help you clean. She can do REAL cleaning, make beds, fold washcloths, vaccum, dustpan and brush crumbs after meals, do dishes, and of course the super-fun water-filled spritz bottle and old diaper cloth to dust.

I think the idea to keep in mind is not inventing trivial or fake things for the kids to do, but figuring out how to actually involve them in the real work of the household.

I hope that helps.
post #885 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoliMum View Post
so what do you do when you are trying to incorporate the CC into your 3-yo's life but she resists? We bought her a little wooden toolset for Christmas so she can do her own handiwork throughout the house while I am doing mine (we just moved in so I'm hanging a lot of pictures, etc.), but the entire time she just whined about wanting the "real tools" that I was using. She's a little young to be handling hammers and nails, esp since she hasn't been raised with CC so she doesn't have those "safety instincts" intact.
The nice fact is that she noticed the difference which shows you that she is paying attention to details.

How about sitting with her and getting a few nails and working with her? If she wants to handle it, make sure she's wearing some "gear" and have your hands right there was she tries to do it. As she gets better due to practice and aging, the both of you will feel comfortable.

Then when it's "your turn" to use the tools in the house, ask her to do something else while you hang pictures since they are higher and she can't reach. I usually offered suggestions for my son and let him offer his own.

Your house is the community and if there's only one hammer, you have to share ;-)

-Kolleen
post #886 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoliMum View Post
How can I fulfill her need to be close and carried but do CC stuff that assumes her independence??
This was us too. We slowly got dd1 out of wanting to be carried *all*the*time* by doing the "big girl" thing... she's a big girl, she can walk, and eat chocolate, and go swimming with her friends, not like her baby sister...But when she just NEEDED to be held, needed some close time, I would let her sit on my lap while I did internet banking, or come and cook with me, or sit and read her a book and cuddle. Or I'd tell her "okay, I'll hold you for 5 minutes while I'm working but then you have to go find something to do". To my surprise, it works, she seems satisfied with that. I hope there's something here that you can take? Good luck!
post #887 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
Playing with toys designed to look like grown-ups' tools and appliances is definitely NOT CC. The whole point is allowing kids to do real work, not playing at doing work.

I think the idea to keep in mind is not inventing trivial or fake things for the kids to do, but figuring out how to actually involve them in the real work of the household.

I hope that helps.
I see that, and I do try to get her to do real work, also- but usually she resists. We got the play tools because of the safety concern; usually I let her use anything I'm using except sharps. She has started to notice that small things fit into outlets and handing her a screwdriver just seemed like a bad idea.
post #888 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post
I think the idea to keep in mind is not inventing trivial or fake things for the kids to do, but figuring out how to actually involve them in the real work of the household.

I hope that helps.
I agree about the idea of involving the child in the real work of the household. It is about including the child within the family dynamic instead of placing them in a seperate 'component' from the family if they are not wanting that. If the family is moving (as we did recently), there are so many positive reasons to involve one's child in the actual work of the move. Including packing, moving items to the truck, unloading, putting things away, hanging things up, etc. Not only does it helps them feel useful and teach them about life in the "tribe" but it can also be quite therapeutic for the young child's spirit in times of major change.

There are hammers that are real hammers just made for smaller hands that may help ease a parent's safety worries (as most young children have a hard time manipulating a standard adult's hammer properly as it can be quite heavy). I am referring to tools such as these. The child is still able to perform actual work around the house with tools that are more conducive to their size.
post #889 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoliMum View Post
I see that, and I do try to get her to do real work, also- but usually she resists. We got the play tools because of the safety concern; usually I let her use anything I'm using except sharps. She has started to notice that small things fit into outlets and handing her a screwdriver just seemed like a bad idea.
I would get outlet covers a.s.a.p. if you don't have them already. But aside from that, I wouldn't hand her a tool without teaching her how to use it properly and then supervising its use at first. I think your intent was totally spot on just that the pretend tools thing isn't going over well on your child because she still has that innate sense of wanting to be CC... she wants the real deal.
post #890 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfacing View Post
This was us too. We slowly got dd1 out of wanting to be carried *all*the*time* by doing the "big girl" thing... she's a big girl, she can walk, and eat chocolate, and go swimming with her friends, not like her baby sister...But when she just NEEDED to be held, needed some close time, I would let her sit on my lap while I did internet banking, or come and cook with me, or sit and read her a book and cuddle. Or I'd tell her "okay, I'll hold you for 5 minutes while I'm working but then you have to go find something to do". To my surprise, it works, she seems satisfied with that. I hope there's something here that you can take? Good luck!
I tried a little of that today. It just drives me nuts that she is perfectly capable of walking alongside me, but she refuses! I feel like we would be so much more in sync if she'd just walk with me, holding hands, and work beside me... She is constantly needing me to carry her and play with her though. I say, "Let's fold laundry," or "Let's cook dinner," and she says "No Mommy, let's go in my room and play!" I end up playing for 10-15 minutes and then go back to my work, alone. When she truly does want to be a part of my work, it's always when I'm doing the most dangerous stuff!!

The other suggestions were helpful, too. I'm going to order outlet covers tonight (we already have them but they are the little flat ones and she knows how to unplug the cords now, so we need the box type covers that hold the cord in place) so that will help a little.

This is a little off topic, but does anyone have suggestions on needle felting with a small child? I felt as a hobby, and although I'm more than happy to let her play with the wool, I can't give her the needles. Maybe a big knitting needle or something? But she seems disappointed when her wool doesn't felt up like mine.
post #891 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoliMum View Post
I tried a little of that today. It just drives me nuts that she is perfectly capable of walking alongside me, but she refuses! I feel like we would be so much more in sync if she'd just walk with me, holding hands, and work beside me... She is constantly needing me to carry her and play with her though. I say, "Let's fold laundry," or "Let's cook dinner," and she says "No Mommy, let's go in my room and play!" I end up playing for 10-15 minutes and then go back to my work, alone. When she truly does want to be a part of my work, it's always when I'm doing the most dangerous stuff!!
I have found that different expectations needed to be set up, and sometimes that means some sadness/frustration/anger from DD. I need to be very firm and not wishy-washy with DD or she will sense that I am looking to her for direction and will do the same thing. If I just put my foot down and insist that I have things I need to do, and she can either watch, help or play on her own, then she will. If she doesn't, and has a meltdown over the new rules, then it's usually time for a nap anyway. That's been our experience over the last few weeks.

ETA: There is a good article on the CC website about this, called "Who's In Charge?" It really helped me reframe my perspective and realize that the child may be frustrated for a short time when I assert my authority, but it is better than the long-term battles from leading them to believe that they are the decision-maker, which is very confusing to them and I would daresay even harmful to their development. HTH!
post #892 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoliMum View Post
I tried a little of that today. It just drives me nuts that she is perfectly capable of walking alongside me, but she refuses! I feel like we would be so much more in sync if she'd just walk with me, holding hands, and work beside me... She is constantly needing me to carry her and play with her though. I say, "Let's fold laundry," or "Let's cook dinner," and she says "No Mommy, let's go in my room and play!" I end up playing for 10-15 minutes and then go back to my work, alone. When she truly does want to be a part of my work, it's always when I'm doing the most dangerous stuff!!

The other suggestions were helpful, too. I'm going to order outlet covers tonight (we already have them but they are the little flat ones and she knows how to unplug the cords now, so we need the box type covers that hold the cord in place) so that will help a little.

This is a little off topic, but does anyone have suggestions on needle felting with a small child? I felt as a hobby, and although I'm more than happy to let her play with the wool, I can't give her the needles. Maybe a big knitting needle or something? But she seems disappointed when her wool doesn't felt up like mine.
When DD asks me to play, I generally bring something out that she can do in the room I'm working in (I do find that proximity makes it more likely that she'll want to get involved in my work, though I'm fine if she doesn't, either). Sometimes she wants me to play with her, though. What I've been trying to do lately is sit near her, but work on my crafting (right now, knitting). Whether I'm involved in my own work or sitting near her crafting, I talk to her about what I'm doing, what she's doing, etc... that way she's getting attention, but it's not focused on her.

When it comes down to it, though, we are a only child nuclear family, not living tribally. So I think it's appropriate for me to be her playmate sometimes, since there aren't other children around to fulfill that role.
post #893 of 1092
Wow, finally finished reading all 47 pages. There is some great stuff in here. I've been recommending this thread to all kinds of people.

things that help me be a better parent (CC or otherwise):
-go outside for a while every day, I've noticed that the more we're outside the happier we both are...we stack firewood, bring in firewood, cut firewood, saw stuff for the toy treehouses that I make, rake the dead grass for the compost cover, rake leaves, take walks, play in the sand, mud, water, ice, throw sticks, rocks, prickly balls into the water, work in the garden in the summer, walk to the park and play there, play in the hammock, have picnics, swim, and so on
-have useful work to do...inside stuff is cleaning, crocheting, building/sanding/sawing for the toys I make, cooking, etc.
-wrap (or sling) time every day...even though my son is two, I find that even a half hour a day helps...I think that babies have three major resets: sleeping, nursing, and babywearing
-just relax, don't worry about doing "it" "right" or what is or isn't continuum, just do what feels right (and don't be lazy and sit in front of the TV/computer all day), if my son wants to play or wants me to do something for him, I drop what I'm doing and assist. I find if I put him off for a while or say no all the time, then he just wants me more and gets more whiny. If I respond to his requests promptly, he doesn't have to get worked up and things just go more smoothly. And since I usually respond promptly, when I can't, he can wait because he knows that I want to help or play or whatever.

I've forgotten what else I wanted to say. I think the biggest thing is just to stop worrying in general. things that help with that, I've found, are:
-get all the voices out of your head telling you what to do (and since that's a work in progress, just practice ignoring them)
-if your child is doing something that worries you (not something that's going to kill or maim them), just keep an eye on him or spot him, rather than opening your mouth (generally speaking)
-believe that your child is basically competent, and if they fall, cut themselves, etc. it's not the end of the world

It's 5am, I don't even know what I'm saying anymore. I'm going to bed.

Thanks everyone for all your insight. I've loved reading this thread. Keep it coming.
post #894 of 1092
hi everyone
some useful thoughts and suggestions in the last few posts, thanks everyone! I'm having a bit of trouble b/c the ONLY thing DS wants to do is 'cook' (and occasionally mop/sweep) with our real pots and pans (he says 'cook' while he plays with them, and puts real food in them too), which I'm fine with but drives DP crazy with the loud clanging noise- and after DS broke a sieve today DP has said the 'real stuff' is off limits. I seriously cannot get any housework done if DS is not engaged with something himself, I can wear him sometimes but then often he just starts screaming in the back bc he can see I'm using stuff he wants to use! So I'm not sure where to go from here...I let him do 'real stuff' like stirring a pot from a good distance while in my arms, which he loves, and he is imitating us like crazy at the moment, which is all good. So I'm having a lot of 'tugging' and whining at the moment which is really trying my patience! I do sit down and play with him at least once a day for a few minutes, often take him to the park and so on, and read stories a lot to him, but I think he just needs more stimulation around the house than I can provide with no siblings/relatives etc.

this isnt exactly related to parenting in a CC way, but I have to say I've been feeling rather depressed just lately about our society and how most children are parented - seeing scenes that make me feel sick sometimes - and also realising how a lot of my own 'stuff' prob comes from not having in-arms needs fulfilled (like most people!). How do you find positive ways to deal with this - grief is all I can explain it as?

also, on a more everyday level, the toddler of a friend who I've been meeting up with regularly since our toddlers were small babies, has started pushing DS over almost constantly and grabbing toys from him (no matter how many toys of his own he has). I've never seen DS do anything like this and he looks completely puzzled, then often hurt, when it happens. He doesn't respond aggressively back, but I'm a bit concerned. I dont feel like I want to hang out with them much anymore as it requires constant 'referee-ing' and I can't just let DS free to explore as he normally is. What would a CC approach be here? I remember Liedloff mentions a Yequana child starting to bite other children, and she seemed to imply it was a sign of a disrupted continuum in some way. This toddler (my friend's), although brought up very 'attachment parenting', is raised in what I perceive to be a very child-centred way and I know he was in a buggy for most of the in-arms phase and only started being 'worn' as an older baby..
post #895 of 1092
Big hugs Devaya.

I have to say my most challenging phase as a parent was being home alone all day with my first born when he was 9 mos-18 mos. He loved high stimulation and I just couldn't catch a break.

I tried to save things for when I needed to get things done. I had a special drawer in the kitchen with baby friendly equipment and when I cooked I pulled it all out, but then I would put it away for next time. He enjoyed me just spending time with him so it was helpful to have a hobby that I could do alongside his play like knitting or something. I'm thinking you could even scrapbook if you were organized enough to have friendly supplies for him to play.

It passed and now he is so easy to spend the day with. He plays by himself many hours during the day, plays with his younger brother and now has the most interesting conversations with us. I found his personality bloomed when he could talk and have more independence. Truth be told, I just don't think he liked being in a baby's body.

lots of love mama.
post #896 of 1092
couple of thoughts:
Nolimom:
why not wet felt with the little one? No pokey needles, and they end up with a fun little ball. I have seen little 2yo's really enjoy wet felting.

Devaya;
i'm so sorry, it's hard when dp isn't on the same page. Ds played almost exclusively with pots and pans for so long,i can't imagine making them off-limits. Could he be allowed to play only with unbreakable pots and pans?

One good way i have found of convincing dp is to read to him aloud frm TCC. He listens to a book a lot more than me :... Or perhaps, if he's not home all day, you could work it out where ds doesn't play with pots and pans when dp's home, if the noise is just unbearable for him...
post #897 of 1092
Thanks, flowers and zansmama. I've been realising that really, I'm just pretty lonely at home and although I get out most days, it's just not the same as living in a more communal setting...I am going to scrounge around some charity (second hand) shops to find a set of pots that DS can use safely, and just have certain hours when they're out of bounds - e.g. before DP is up for the morning. DP also freaked today when DS was 'washing up' alongside me and there was of course tons of water on the floor...He is a perfectionist! I am too but I've learned to throw that out the window a lot of the time with a toddler. I will try and read him some of the CC book - I have told him the concepts in it on and off and he's in agreement with most of it, but I think his need for order and peace is conflicting with that. Which of course I need to consider as well.

I've been meaning to get around to doing some knitting etc around DS while he plays - he often just needs me to be on the same 'level' as him, on the floor, and then he feels he has company and can get on with his own thing. I also got some recipes today to make home made playdough and lemon curd and am going to try that out soon! I'm enjoying the challenge of getting outside my comfort zone, and I'm finding it very rewarding to see how confident and independent DS is already when we're out and about, and how much he participates in our everyday tasks.
post #898 of 1092
My dh has his things too. He does not like when I let the kids play with rice and beans and it starts going everywhere on the floor. I figure I will just sweep it up but dh gets really stressed. Somethings are just designated for "when daddy's not here"

Sounds like your doing great Deveya!
post #899 of 1092
Thanks! Having this forum to come to is so great, as I don't know anyone else who is really doing this.
post #900 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
couple of thoughts:
Nolimom:
why not wet felt with the little one? No pokey needles, and they end up with a fun little ball. I have seen little 2yo's really enjoy wet felting.
Oh she loves wet felting! And "needling" too with a pretend needle (in this case, a little wooden tree).... but when she starts to grab at my needle, what do I do?
A) Redirect toward another activity and hope she'll give me some space
B) Put my stuff up until she is asleep or otherwise occupied and play with her

Usually I start with A and end up doing B! It gets really frustrating.
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