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Continuum concept (ish) Tribe - Page 46

post #901 of 1092
hi all!

my baby boy and i are definitely CC. he is in arms pretty much 22-23 hrs a day! our concession is the car seat!

i do have a question though. it's about child care. my friend will be returning to work in 4-6 weeks. they are looking for child care and we discussed it. they also are pretty CC, delay/select vax, organic food--basically like us. it's cool.

they have a child care lined up that has guaranteed so many hours "in arms" during the day. i think they have four infants to care for total--one person to four infants. i suppose in an eight hour day, that's about two hours in arms per day if all things are equal.

now, jamie bella will be about 3-3.5 months old; hawk will be about 6-6.5 months old. he's getting to the point where he is trying to crawl (he can definitely get where he wants to go on my body), and may be there or may not in a month or six weeks. who knows? he'll do what he needs to do. but as it is, he seems to flourish in his 21 hrs of holding per day.

i would like to offer child care to my friend's baby, but i'm concerned about it's affect on both hawk and jamie bella. i want to offer the best possible care to my boy and also to jamie bella! i want to keep their continuums in tact!

i know that some parents must raise twins or more in the continuum--so it must be possible. i'm just not sure how to do it. any insight, assurances, or pointers that you can give?

(oh, and on the plus side he would have less time in the car seat because i wouldn't drive him to and from my husband's work--easily an hour a day of commuting!--so he'd likely gain an extra hour of snuggle!)
post #902 of 1092
Hi there, I think this is my first time posting here. DS is 19 months and we have been more or less parenting in a CC style since he was born. He is, in because of this environment he has grown up in, very independent, self-satisfying and adventurous. He's far from behaving like a HUnter-Gatherer child, but we've managed to avoid many of the trappings of conventional American parenting involving consumerism, fear-based decision making, the allopathic medical system, etc.

I first read CC (and similar books) ages ago, pre-children, while still a midwifery student. My partner's academic background is in evolutionary biology, so he is also particularly interested in human behavior and development from this perspective. He has also worked with many Indigenous hunter-gatherer groups in Latin America and it has been great to be able to discuss a lot of these issues with him. I am looking forward to reading through the entire thread sometime.
When?!?!?

One challenge we're having these days is DS intentionally lagging behind and wandering off when we're walking around in public places. Often he will follow just behind, and be engaged with us, or whatever he is doing, along side us. But he is increasingly testing the situation by not following when we're moving on. How are you all approaching this? In a busy urban area with bust streets I do not feel comfortable continuing on without him. We have a lot of drunk drivers here too, and in no way do I trust other people to look out for my little toddler at the side of the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaya View Post
the toddler of a friend who I've been meeting up with regularly since our toddlers were small babies, has started pushing DS over almost constantly and grabbing toys from him. I've never seen DS do anything like this and he looks completely puzzled, then often hurt, when it happens.....What would a CC approach be here?....This toddler (my friend's), although brought up very 'attachment parenting', is raised in what I perceive to be a very child-centred way
Devaya, we are experiencing this too. Just the other day we went to a new friend's house and there was a three year old girl there who was completely bossing the other kids, and forceably shoved a sweet little one year old into the wall three times! As the only parent in the room I intervened as best I could but the poor boy was completely caught off guard and very upset. Now, I don't want to get on here criticizing other mothers, but from the brief time I was there I saw the mother of the girl really obsessing over her ever word, action, need, etc., to the point that we could not even have much of a conversation. Who knows, we all have our difficult and "off" days and our kids do too. But we've moved recently and are meeting lots of new parents and kids, and I just don't want to be around this. Is it totally ridiculous to think we can escape this kind of parent-child dynamic and aggressive behavior?

Warmly,
Erin
post #903 of 1092
Quote:
now, jamie bella will be about 3-3.5 months old; hawk will be about 6-6.5 months old. he's getting to the point where he is trying to crawl (he can definitely get where he wants to go on my body), and may be there or may not in a month or six weeks. who knows? he'll do what he needs to do. but as it is, he seems to flourish in his 21 hrs of holding per day.
I would definitely go for it! The most difficult thing for us and TCC has been finding a consistent "kid group" for ds, and this would set the stage for that.

It sounds like your ds is just about at the "creeping" stage (I think that was between 6-9 mos in the book, for us started at 5 mos), and will soon be doing his own thing most of the time; getting around on his own; checking things out: if you are hard-core TCC. You can always pick him up when he wants you to. The little-er one I would put on my back, so she's automatically held. Then the front of you is free for picking up ds when he requests it.
I highly reccomend the babysitting thing for a TCC mama. It really helped to keep me from focusing too much on ds, and being too child-centered. And as soon as he's ready for playing with other kids: she'll be right there.
post #904 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by riomidwife View Post
One challenge we're having these days is DS intentionally lagging behind and wandering off when we're walking around in public places. Often he will follow just behind, and be engaged with us, or whatever he is doing, along side us. But he is increasingly testing the situation by not following when we're moving on. How are you all approaching this? In a busy urban area with bust streets I do not feel comfortable continuing on without him. We have a lot of drunk drivers here too, and in no way do I trust other people to look out for my little toddler at the side of the road.

Devaya, we are experiencing this too. Just the other day we went to a new friend's house and there was a three year old girl there who was completely bossing the other kids, and forceably shoved a sweet little one year old into the wall three times! As the only parent in the room I intervened as best I could but the poor boy was completely caught off guard and very upset. Now, I don't want to get on here criticizing other mothers, but from the brief time I was there I saw the mother of the girl really obsessing over her ever word, action, need, etc., to the point that we could not even have much of a conversation. Who knows, we all have our difficult and "off" days and our kids do too. But we've moved recently and are meeting lots of new parents and kids, and I just don't want to be around this. Is it totally ridiculous to think we can escape this kind of parent-child dynamic and aggressive behavior?

Warmly,
Erin
Hi Erin, and welcome to the thread! I still haven't had time to read the entire thing either, I try to squeeze some in once a week or so!
Re the lagging behind/wandering off thing - my little one is doing that too, and I'm a bit worried bc I certainly DON'T want to end up chasing him, but let's be honest here,the city ISN'T a safe place...the other day we were in a very middle-class park and he was within eye-shot but not right at my side, and we encountered two obviously mentally ill (one ranting and in-your-face, not pleasant) women along the way...making me think, uh-oh, maybe my confidence is misplaced. They may well not have ever hurt him, but it doesn't inspire a sense of safety. I'm not sure what to do either.

ANd how do you all handle the looks/possible words of criticism/judgement from members of public who do not understand? I seem to get looks from people as soon as DS isn't right next to me holding my hand...the British culture is incredibly controlling and fearful around children, and many toddlers are on leashes. I'm a bit defensive but I dont think I'm imagining it either.

Re having to socialise with child-centred/passive aggressive families: I must say I'm phasing that out more and more. I mostly hang out in groups of other adults who 'incidentally' bring children along, rather than a child-centred thing, such as at the children's library or the park, or at Twelfth Step meetings that are child-friendly. Or at a friend' s house, she has 2 kids and they all just mill about together very pleasantly. The friend I mentioned in my previous thread, I hardly see anymore, due to her working hours, but I decided not to deliberately avoid her b/c I think it could happen to anyone, that your child starts to push,e tc - and she would be isolated if everyone just avoided her and her child. Apparently when he's at nursery he is fine and never does that - I wonder why. But i do find myself uncomfortable a lot of the time with the way parents interact with their kids when we're out and about, the constant unnecessary 'be careful''s etc, and the way the children often seem to have internalised this and start bossing DS around - 'you can't go on that slide, that's for big boys', etc, when he is trying out his climbing skills and I'm close by to supervise.
post #905 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
I highly reccomend the babysitting thing for a TCC mama. It really helped to keep me from focusing too much on ds, and being too child-centered. And as soon as he's ready for playing with other kids: she'll be right there.
This is interesting - I've been considering, on and off, doing some childminding, and hadn't thought of it as a good TCC thing to do. Generally DS is great with other kids around and is then much less looking for me to do stuff with him. But what's put me off, really, is that I doubt I could carry on with my own housework and so on, if I were looking after someone else's child. They'd expect me to be playing with them all the time, right?
post #906 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaya View Post
This is interesting - I've been considering, on and off, doing some childminding, and hadn't thought of it as a good TCC thing to do. Generally DS is great with other kids around and is then much less looking for me to do stuff with him. But what's put me off, really, is that I doubt I could carry on with my own housework and so on, if I were looking after someone else's child. They'd expect me to be playing with them all the time, right?
Not necessarily. I watch a fie-year-old on Tuesdays and she does fine without my help. She plays with my almost three-year-old and I can go about my own work. I actually get more done with two kids here than one! Anytime my own child needs help, I always ask the older child to assist first, so that they can find a solution together without my intervention. I only wish I had another child here everyday, because I think multiple children are definitely important in a TCC environment.

If the girls really want to play with me, I usually say, "Okay, bring your game out here while I fold laundry," or "I will play for five minutes then I hae to get back to work." And of course the moment I turn on the faucet they both come running, "I want to wash dishes, pleeeease!!"

And her mother is happy that I can get things done. She doesn't want me pandering to her child all the time. She's a single working mom, so she understands that things just need to get done and children are perfectly capable (and perfectly happy!) to play on their own.
post #907 of 1092
thanks for the encouragement! more and more, hawk is interested in just being and playing on his own--and really jamie is only awake, so far, to eat and be changed. LOL
post #908 of 1092
Nolimum, that sounds like a great arrangement. The mom you work for clearly sounds on board with your ideas. I wonder if it could work for me after all...
post #909 of 1092

help, CC moms!

Okay, I've been doing CC with ds since the beginning... and it shows. Good physical instincts, good relationships with peers, and etc.
However, lately I can see that I've been influenced a lot by society as far as parental involvement and control, and ds's natural self-regulation is weakening. He has adopted a rather rebellious,sassy attitude that he never exhibited before (he's almost 6), and I think it's because he's being too regulated. He often resists helping around the house now, which is also new. I want to just go back, but these new habits are dying hard.
I want to get back to CC principles such as contentment in work, not forcing my will on him, and etc... I'm just not sure how that looks at 5yo, I guess, and how to re-incorporate it into our life.
And TV is a big issue with us. I guess I have a belief that, given the chance, he would just veg out all day in front of... whatever, videos and etc. so we argue about this a lot.
I think we are going to start him in school in Sept, because he NEEDS a "tribe" to hang out with every single day. Once or twice a week is not cutting it any more.

Anyway, any moms with any advice/insight or personal anecdotes that may be helpful here?
post #910 of 1092
One thought popped into my mind.... TV (and video games, etc.) aren't very CC. Kind of like high fructose corn syrup is not very "traditional foods". So I think the reason kids (and parents) have trouble regulating them and TV (and video games etc.) becomes a huge issue is that we have literally ZERO human continuum experience with dealing with that kind of addictive stimulation (or lack thereof). Kind of like our bodies didn't evolve around HFCS or other refined sugars and so many of us get nutsy when we eat refined sugars (and grains) and get quite literally addicted to them, and they cause all kinds of health problems as a result. My kids were 100% TV free until the age of around 4 1/2 and then they watched things like Little Bear and Caillou and I told myself it was A-okay and these are such "benign shows" who could possible worry about that. Then I was kind of horrified about a year ago at how MUCH TV they were watching, so we totally cut back. Mostly it's just Friday Night Movie Night now, not even really TV. And we've never done any video games because I am pretty concerned about the risks.

But anyway, my point is I am wondering how much of the battling and negative behaviors are arising at least in part because of the TV watching. Maybe you should just go no-TV for a while or implement serious rules about it. I know that rules may not seem CC, but TV is not a CC thing and IMO if you're going to have something like TV (or video games, or high fructose corn syrup, lol) in your life, you need some rules about it because people - especially children - will NOT self-regulate on these things.
post #911 of 1092
Quote:
I actually get more done with two kids here than one!
This has been my experience too. When my son has a friend over to play, the two of them entertain each other and I am much less in demand. I do have to stick around where I can see or hear them pretty well (just in case the other kid gets an idea to do something I'd rather they not do--several of his friends are years older and can be bossy!) but since our first floor has a very open plan, that still leaves lots of options for activities for all of us.
post #912 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by riomidwife View Post
One challenge we're having these days is DS intentionally lagging behind and wandering off when we're walking around in public places. Often he will follow just behind, and be engaged with us, or whatever he is doing, along side us. But he is increasingly testing the situation by not following when we're moving on. How are you all approaching this? In a busy urban area with bust streets I do not feel comfortable continuing on without him. We have a lot of drunk drivers here too, and in no way do I trust other people to look out for my little toddler at the side of the road.
Warmly,
Erin

I am enjoying reading through the thread, but if anyone has any thoughts on the above, I am all ears! thanks!
post #913 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Periwinkle View Post

But anyway, my point is I am wondering how much of the battling and negative behaviors are arising at least in part because of the TV watching. Maybe you should just go no-TV for a while or implement serious rules about it. I know that rules may not seem CC, but TV is not a CC thing and IMO if you're going to have something like TV (or video games, or high fructose corn syrup, lol) in your life, you need some rules about it because people - especially children - will NOT self-regulate on these things.
Yeah, I agree... We definitely have to regulate somewhat. But I think part of what has been going on is that I have been perceiving TV as "bad" (not dp, unfortunately), and ds has been picking up on the disapproving vibe.

I've really been working on the expectation and belief in innate "rightness", so to speak: innate sociability, so that ds feels approved of and accepted. It really seems to be making a huge difference. I've also been teaching him how to do more things for himself, and this has really helped. I think even just the change in my attitude and focus can help us get back on track.
post #914 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by riomidwife View Post
I am enjoying reading through the thread, but if anyone has any thoughts on the above, I am all ears! thanks!
I would really, really model carefulness, and even "fear" of the street. This worked for us with ds. Then I could trust him to wander, because I knew he would NEVER wander into the street.
His little buddy told him when he was about 2 that a car would "smash him flat". I think that pretty much did it for us.
Oh, and I would just continue on, after letting him know that you are doing so (waiting at street crossings). He will eventually follow, I believe.
post #915 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
I would really, really model carefulness, and even "fear" of the street. This worked for us with ds. Then I could trust him to wander, because I knew he would NEVER wander into the street.
His little buddy told him when he was about 2 that a car would "smash him flat". I think that pretty much did it for us.
Oh, and I would just continue on, after letting him know that you are doing so (waiting at street crossings). He will eventually follow, I believe.
I've been wondering about this too, and about what is the age-appropriate way of conveying this at 15 months. Y.day we were in the park having coffee at a cafe and DS walked off (as soon as 'released' from the pushchair) and went to check out the bowling greens. He was within my view but quite far away, and another mother came up to him, obviously concerned that he seemed to be on his own. What do you all do in situations like that? She gestured at me to ask if he was mine and I nodded, after which she nodded and moved away, but I was worried that she would think I was negligent. It's so hard, b/c I can't and don't want to 'keep him' by my side, and he enjoys exploring on his own, BUT he doesn't seem to know that he needs to stay close to me, and the park isn't far from the road and the cars.

As soon as he started walking further away I went and stood a short distance from him. He's very fascinated by cars and points at them excitedly, saying 'car! car!' I don't know how to convey to him that they are n't a 'fun thing' but a dangerous thing, without being all 'Oh be careful! It's scary!'

I just feel a bit at sea with all this b/c I 'm genuinely concerned for his safety and don't want to end up having to use a leash b/c he hasn't learned appropriate safety for himself. He won't, and never has, held hands when walking, except for very short periods when he's, say, climbing a pebbly beach which is difficult for him. At what age did you all start giving more physical space? Also, yesterday he fell down the stairs when he was carrying something down with him(fortunately only from the 3rd one down, but it could have been very serious if it was further up) and that freaked me out a bit (tho I tried not to show it) - thinking mayb we should put the stairgate up etc.
post #916 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Devaya View Post
I've been wondering about this too, and about what is the age-appropriate way of conveying this at 15 months. Y.day we were in the park having coffee at a cafe and DS walked off (as soon as 'released' from the pushchair) and went to check out the bowling greens. He was within my view but quite far away, and another mother came up to him, obviously concerned that he seemed to be on his own. What do you all do in situations like that? She gestured at me to ask if he was mine and I nodded, after which she nodded and moved away, but I was worried that she would think I was negligent. It's so hard, b/c I can't and don't want to 'keep him' by my side, and he enjoys exploring on his own, BUT he doesn't seem to know that he needs to stay close to me, and the park isn't far from the road and the cars.

As soon as he started walking further away I went and stood a short distance from him. He's very fascinated by cars and points at them excitedly, saying 'car! car!' I don't know how to convey to him that they are n't a 'fun thing' but a dangerous thing, without being all 'Oh be careful! It's scary!'

I just feel a bit at sea with all this b/c I 'm genuinely concerned for his safety and don't want to end up having to use a leash b/c he hasn't learned appropriate safety for himself. He won't, and never has, held hands when walking, except for very short periods when he's, say, climbing a pebbly beach which is difficult for him. At what age did you all start giving more physical space? Also, yesterday he fell down the stairs when he was carrying something down with him(fortunately only from the 3rd one down, but it could have been very serious if it was further up) and that freaked me out a bit (tho I tried not to show it) - thinking mayb we should put the stairgate up etc.

Dh and I find it quite entertaining to sit back and "watch" how our ds's interact with others on their own. Often times an adult will look around and when she looks at us I give a little wave and nod and that is it. I always make sure that it is evident that I am watching, just letting him explore, and I am there if needed. I think negligence would be if I wasn't aware of where my child was. We've been parenting like this since my first child could crawl (so about 4 years) and if anything it has made me feel safe and confident about humanity. People are always ready to step in and help my children and ask if they are lost. I am happy to know that if my child was lost that there is an abundance of wonderful people out there who would help him.

I have a 16 month old who is much more daring than his brother. We've always lived on busy streets and with his older brother I would take him right to the edge of the street and very, very firmly, with fear in my eyes say No! Big Boo-Boos! and then turn him around and prance and play in the safe areas of the yard. I save that tone for very intense experiences and rarely use it. We live in an urban area and cars are everywhere. I want my child to know how serious it is to stay safe around them.
post #917 of 1092
Quote:
Originally Posted by zansmama View Post
I would really, really model carefulness, and even "fear" of the street. This worked for us with ds. Then I could trust him to wander, because I knew he would NEVER wander into the street.
His little buddy told him when he was about 2 that a car would "smash him flat". I think that pretty much did it for us.
Oh, and I would just continue on, after letting him know that you are doing so (waiting at street crossings). He will eventually follow, I believe.
I'm so glad I came back to check on this thread! I haven't read past this post, yet. But I just wanted to add one thing. I think at the beginning of "training" back to letting the child follow you, there will be a much larger gap between you before s/he follows. But as they start to anticipate that you really *will* continue walking (albeit slowly) without them, their need to be closer will kick in faster. This has been my experience with DD, and with a child I babysat. I didn't get to test it out with him very long, because he took FOREVER to follow me - in proportion to the lack of CC parenting he's received, I think - and I usually had to go back to get him or create some diversion to "make" him follow the few times I tried. Then our situation changed and I don't watch him anymore.
post #918 of 1092
thanks for those points, Flowers. We have a beautiful cemetery which is more of a park, right across our road (which is a busy road) so I might try something like what you suggested, modelling where it is safe to play and where not. I also think it's good that people look out for your children, after all that 's how it 'should' be in a community, and in the situation I described I didn't get a vibe that it was anything more than that. I was at a big (drugs-free, holistic, family-friendly) festival in the summer and one of the stall-holders there let her young walking toddler (about 13 mo) roam the festival on his own - out of her view - and I was amazed at her trust. I mean, it was as good an environment as you're probably going to get, but there could have been broken glass or anything. So it's interesting what you say about not letting them out of your range of vision.

leila1213, that is interesting. I guess I've not been waiting long enough for DS to catch up with me - he usually does, but sometimes I don't have time to just wait around *forever* so I do go back a bit and gesture him to follow. Prob not good, but unfort Western time does run on clocks I will keep trying to train him to follow me though!
post #919 of 1092
Hello, I have been looking for a CC tribe. I hope it's okay to post here. I am going to be reading the thread from the beginning because I am so intensely needing to understand the CC.

I am reading the book I think for the third time. First time was when older DS was a baby. The newborn part I've got down pat. The childhood part is harder. I'm really struggling with applying a lot of the principles to our living situation (modern isolated suburban sahm here!) my problem is that *I* am not a CULTURE! *I* am just me. And soon I/we (DH) will be outnumbered... we're having #3.

If we were just part of a larger community, spent more time with people, especially people who believed in the CC, it would be all be perfect, but alas, reality is imperfect.

I am especially working right now on having confidence in myself and in my authority, so that my children will have confidence in me. I'm constantly revising (raising) my expectations and training myself to have faith in their social nature... reminding myself they will *want* to follow me and *want* my guidance/information. It is hard with an almost 6 yr old (because I have been so wishy-washy with him for so many years) easier with a newly 3 yr old.

I am rereading several articles on the Web site and really enjoyed "Restoring Harmony" and then "Allowing Human Nature To Work Successfully." That is my goal, summed up right there! Thanks for reading everyone!
post #920 of 1092
Quote:
i would like to offer child care to my friend's baby, but i'm concerned about it's affect on both hawk and jamie bella. i want to offer the best possible care to my boy and also to jamie bella! i want to keep their continuums in tact!
I just wanted to comment on this. I think it is a great idea! Sounds ideal for you and your friend, as well as the babies. Four infants to one adult is too much, but two, with their age differences, should work just fine.

I stay at home with my two boys, and I always jump at the chance to have more kids over here. I sometimes care for my friend's two children who have similar ages. Sometimes I will go out of my way to go and pick a friend's children up so they can come over and play with my two little ones. I think it is so healthy for them, they all play really well together, there are mixed ages, they learn to care for the little ones, the older ones get to teach, etc. Plus, they leave me alone! I get so much more done of things *I* want to do, and so I feel more balanced. The kids are happy, I'm happy. In fact, I'm thinking about looking for a child to care for when this baby is about 6 months.
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