"I supplement once a day... I mean, I need a break! don't you think?" - Page 9

[Quirky]

Rachel, I would check the flanges on your pump - it's possible that they're too small or too large for your breasts to be stimulated effectively. Another mama posted about this recently in the Getting Started forum.

Also, what setting do you have the PIS at? And is it a new(ish) pump, or could it have motor problems or need new membranes, anything like that? The flanges and membranes are fairly inexpensive so it might be worthwhile investing in those to see if it makes a difference.

I would pump first thing in the morning while baby is nursing the other side, if at all possible. I would also take fenugreek and blessed thistle, 3-4 capsules of each, 3 times a day, if I thought it was a supply issue.

And if it really comes down to it, if you really just can't pump (and I'm certainly this way now that ds is 21 months), if your baby is under 12 months, then formula would be appropriate. I would personally use organic dairy formula under those circumstances. But I would also pump a couple of times a day at work anyway just for the breast/supply stimulation.

[Al Dente]

quirky-I posted that thread about the phalanges... using the bigger ones has actually allowed me to get milk when I pump. I used fenugrek early on but stopped when ds started doing so well; I never thought about using it to help have enough to pump, but I will do so right away.

messynessie- I hasven't tried another pump cuz I was afraid it was "just me"...but I will def. look into it!

thanks mamas!

[Tiacsophno]

Originally Posted by clarissajoy2

1) I live and work in Cambridge, Massachusetts which is arguably one of the most alternative places in the country. Some of the experiences which some posters discuss about not being accepted for their bf choices have not happen to me at least not to the extent which many report. At a party in my workplace a few weeks ago, there were three babies in addition to my own in slings and the majority of the women with children under two years were breastfeeding at least somewhat (although some do supplement). All the fears that I had through reading that I had done in Ms. Magazine and on the internet about being pushed into a medicalized birth by an OB were not at all realized --in fact, at one point in the hypnobirth of my son, I decided that I wanted to medication and my OB convinced me to wait. Almost all the parenting choices that I've made may not be common among my friends and colleagues but none are viewed as unusual or extraordinary. And the alternative health care center that I use for primary care is extremely responsive to my concerns. I may not be as intense about the breastfeeding issues as some of the readers of Mothering simply because I have not had to fight as hard with friends, family, health care providers etc to get mu wished respected.

cj

I just wanted to say that I live 15 miles from Cambridge, Massachusetts and apparently there can be quite a difference in just a short distance. A local large pediatric practice has standing orders to give formula to newborns in the hospital after every breastfeeding session, even if the mother wants to exclusively BF. I know countless people whose breastfed babies were given formula in the hospital against their wishes by the nurses, or were encouraged to do so by "lactation consultants". My local hospital has a 28% c-sec rate and after firing all the IBCLCs they sent all the maternity nurses to a one-week lactation consulting certification program and now these nurses are all considered LC's even though some of them don't personally believe in breastfeeding. I know a mother who was denied service at Great Cuts because the stylists said that breastfeeding was "disgusting". I rarely see mothers nursing in public. I was the only one I knew who used a sling until about 3 years ago. Most of the mothers living on my block FF their kids from day one. My own doctor recently cautioned me against breastfeeding my son "too long". Again, I'm only 15 miles from Cambridge.

I'm not disagree with your point that your environment may not have made you as angry as some of the rest of us, but I think it is interesting that one doesn't have to look very far to find the problems.

[boysrus]

Just a few more things here.
Once upon a time, that OP could hae been mine. I used to be terribly judemental of "mainstream" moms. Only in the past few months have I decided to calm down and stop judging. THis is why my posts are so harsh. None so righteous as the newly converted, right?

Also, though, what if the mom in the OP picked up a Dr Sears book and found out that supplementing wasnt a good idea? So she surfs around and finds MDC? "Oh, support and Advocacy, I need support right now?" She She sees this thread title and so she opens it. Now, does she feels supported? Or does she feel kicked down by one more group of mothers?

It is really hard to find and live in the alternative culture. That is why it is alternative. We must accept that most people dont. We should applaud any efforts made to cross over into it, even if they dont meet our standards of alternative.

[rareimer]

my last thought on this post is this...

just as people have pointed out there are different ways of going about breastfeeding successfully, there are also different types of breastfeeding advocates. while some of us here obviously feel that supplementing is no big deal as long as it helps someone be successful at breastfeeding *at all*, others of us wouldn't let our babies touch a bottle of formula with a ten foot pole. some of us may mostly be upset with the formula companies for the way they market formula, some of us may be upset by those who bash breastfeeding, some of us may be upset when we see an example of someone treating formula as something "almost as good" as breastmilk, and supplementing when they don't really need to.

we're all different, we all have different opinions on good reasons for supplementation, and different ideas on what breastfeeding advocacy is about. and that's not a bad thing. for some people, it may take that "all or nothing" attitude to convince them to keep going with breastfeeding. that mother may hear that sometimes people supplement, and that's okay, and that may really be the end of her nursing relationship, if she gives herself that permission. another mother may need to hear that same thing, that an occasional bottle is okay, so that she doesn't just quit altogether.

i myself really don't think supplementation without a valid medical reason is something a breastfeeding mother should do, when breastfeeding is otherwise going okay. but that's just my opinion. i happen to be one of those militant mamas when it comes to this subject. but that doesn't mean i'm right or wrong. and the OP wasn't wrong either for feeling the way she felt when she heard this mother say what she did. and those of you who supplemented? if it all worked out for you, and you're happy with your decision, then that is not wrong either.

[abigailvr]

Originally Posted by boysrus

It is really hard to find and live in the alternative culture. That is why it is alternative. We must accept that most people dont. We should applaud any efforts made to cross over into it, even if they dont meet our standards of alternative.

I guess I feel like we shouldn't have to applaud any efforts here. This is MDC, this is supposed to be the alternative culture. I used to come to MDC and feel like I wasn't alternative enough, recently I feel more alternative than most. I'm not sure if I've changed or if MDC has changed.

[Wildcrafter]

Quote "Almost all the parenting choices that I've made may not be common among my friends and colleagues but none are viewed as unusual or extraordinary."

You are very lucky to live in a place where your choices are so accepted. But this is not the case for (I dare say) the most of us. My sister lives in Boston not far away from you and she is as mainstream as it gets.

Also, as far as the lazy sucking topic, I believe it is more important to focus on the dental carries differences when comparing formula to breastfeeding.

As for pumping, I tried unsuccessfully in the beginning because my dh wanted to feed ds so bad, but I had no help or information at the time. I also had no confidence and no real desire to do it because I wanted to just nurse. It was only a few drops and I gave up quickly. But now I know that a few drops was GOOD for the first time and that it takes time to be able to mimic your babe's sucking pattern and to be able to relax enough to let your milk down. I think pumping success depends a lot on the individual reasons and motivation for pumping. And of course, having some tactile help.

[sohj]

Originally Posted by Tiacsophno

...A local large pediatric practice has standing orders to give formula to newborns in the hospital after every breastfeeding session, even if the mother wants to exclusively BF.

I know countless people whose breastfed babies were given formula in the hospital against their wishes by the nurses, or were encouraged to do so by "lactation consultants".

My local hospital has a 28% c-sec rate and after firing all the IBCLCs they sent all the maternity nurses to a one-week lactation consulting certification program and now these nurses are all considered LC's even though some of them don't personally believe in breastfeeding.

I know a mother who was denied service at Great Cuts because the stylists said that breastfeeding was "disgusting".

[sohj]

Ya know, it is stuff like that that just makes me want to scream at people who say I can't be "judgmental" about my "choice" and other's "choices".

Why can't I be angry?

Why do I have to be a saint so others can get away with being $h**heads?

And what, exactly, is so wrong with having "judgment"? Why is "judgmental" so bad, but people get praised for having good judgment?

Is it going to get to the point where we have to be so careful with the feelings of people who use poor judgment that we can't even praise those who use good judgment?

Yours truly,

Frustrated and wishing that the US was more like Norway in that we had formula available BY PRESCRPTION ONLY!!!!!!

[mnnice]

I just finished sluggling through nearly all the nine pages of posts on this thread. I have a couple of thoughts. I really wonder if there is something hormonal about feeling so angry about other people choice to not breastfeed (either at all or exclusively as in the case of the OP). I noticed that your youngest if just a few months.

I used to feel this way often and had an especially hard time with my SIL "method" of breastfeeding my nephew. My son was 9 months old at the time my dn was born. She alternated nursing and bottlefeeding with every other feeding while still in hospital until about two weeks when she quit offering the breast entirely. I felt very manipulated when she called me at five days post partum and asked me what she could do about her sore nipples. I wanted to say throw out the bottles and make sure you have a good latch every single time. I also felt like strangling her (definitely not supportive). Instead I told her use the lanolin every single time and that her "system" was likily to cause nipple confusion and supply problems. She also stated that she read in the breastfeeding book I bought her that very fair skinned woman have more difficulties with sore nipples. I was mad that she used/twisted the content a book I personally found very inspiring as an "excuse" to stop.

I still think of myself as a breastfeeding advocate and it still doesn't sit well with me when other woman make the choice not to breastfeed, but I no longer have a kneejerk anger response. My dh's cousin and his wife had a baby in March of 2004 and when we saw them at Easter. They showed us their photos from the hospital. One of the pictures was of this beautiful newborn being bottlefeed in the hospital by her mother. I saw it and felt that it just didn't look right and felt sad for both of them, but I didn't feel the anger that I would of felt 12 or 18 months ago.

[gethane]

I think you might be on to something with the hormonal idea. 2 years ago, long removed from breastfeeding my last child (now 10) I'm not sure I cared emotionally if someone I knew bf or not. Sure, I'd like them too, from a intellectual standpoint.

Now, with a 6 month old EBF baby, I care a lot. I think it has something to do with the look on his face every time he breastfeeds, of bliss. And the thought that there are millions of babies out there that associate that bliss not with their mama, or skin to skin contact, but instead... with food.

[boysrus]

also, it is not as "personal" I used to be really wound up aout it, as I said. But, my youngest is is 3 next month and working his way to weaning. I have been pg or bfing continously for over 8 years. My feelings have become a little kinder bc I a no longer in the "breastfeeding trenches" Same with homebirth. I think that what is right in front of me is what I am most passionate about. And as my kids get older, part of me is being reclaimed. I missed that part. Which makes me more tolerant, I guess.
This is not to say that I no longer advocate those things, because I do, 100%. I am just learning that I can't change people and I cant make up their minds. I can inform, and then I walk away and re enter my own life. I live my life according to my standards. I cannot live others, and I am trying to learn not to upset my own health and sanity by allowing it to eat at me.

[Firemom]

You know there is some truth to fairskinned red heads having sore nipples. Its not common but I personally worked with a woman who had a perfect latch. She also worked with a LC and LLL leader, but once she was going back to work I worked with her one on one.

This woman had sore nipples the whole 10 months she nursed. She really wanted to stop around 6 months and I was so happy she continued until 10 months.

I don't feel I'm ever hostile to people about the benefits of breastfeeding. I haven't even nursed in almost 2 years now. But, I feel I have this passion and mission to help people to do just that. If I come across someone who is so outraged by breastfeeding, well thats to much work and its really hard to change someones opinion when others are rooting her on with the bottle.

But this boards give me a chance to express my opinion and even if it changes a few minds, I'm happy with that.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by Firemom

You know there is some truth to fairskinned red heads having sore nipples. Its not common but I personally worked with a woman who had a perfect latch. She also worked with a LC and LLL leader, but once she was going back to work I worked with her one on one.

This woman had sore nipples the whole 10 months she nursed. She really wanted to stop around 6 months and I was so happy she continued until 10 months.

.

Just slightly T but this is very true! I am a fair skinned redhead and was horribly sore for the first 6 weeks. I also have..er, rather *had* very short, small nipples. Everyone kept telling me that if ds was latched properly, I shouldn't be having any pain...so I was terrified that there was something wrong with his latch and that we were doing something wrong. His latch was PERFECT. I was sooooooooooo keyed up about this tho! The almighty latch and all, until a kindly nurse in my LC's office said to me "Dear, we all don't have 'Sears Catalogue Nipples'. Even tho your babe is latched and nursing fine, it may just take awhile for your nipples to stretch and adjust". She was right!

My good friend, who is also very fair and a redhead, had cracked and bleeding nipples for at least the first 6 mos with her first and pain the entire time (he weaned at just over a year). It was worlds different with her second and third tho.

BF wasn't something I felt passionate about before I BF'd a child, but now, it's pretty amazing just *HOW* passionate I feel about it! I have to remind myself that the real villans in all of this are the formula companies tho. It's hard to hear things like 'Well, it was just too time consuming' or 'I tried for 2 WHOLE DAYS before I quit' and not feel slightly annoyed. The worst is when I share my initial breastfeeding woes with someone and I get "Wow, why did you bother? Why didn't you just give him a bottle?" in return. Now *THAT* ENRAGES ME!! It's like it undermines my whoel struggle...deflates my balloon, yk?

[mnnice]

Firemom--
I didn't say that I didn't believe that fair skinned woman have more difficulties with nipple soreness (SIL is blonde not a redhead). I just felt that she took the one item out of the book that might of been discouraging and ran with it. I venture to guess that her every other feeding technique didn't help her nipples much either. I also had my share of first hand difficulties with sore nipples (My ds had to be latch super perfect to not cause soreness) and also bleeding and cracking. It did go away; it didn't go away in two weeks which all the time she gave it. Intellectually I know she was going the best she could, but I was (and apparntly still am) too emotionally involved to be objective about the situation.

[Firemom]

I wasn't putting any blame on you, but I did just want to point out (since I worked with a woman who struggles for 10 months with it and the point was that she did think breastfeeding was important enough that she wanted to continue no matter how much it hurt her

[mnnice]

Firemom--
I am greatful my nipples didn't hurt that long. I am also impressed by your friend and her perseverance.

[Momtwice]

Originally Posted by mnnice

I really wonder if there is something hormonal about feeling so angry about other people choice to not breastfeed (either at all or exclusively as in the case of the OP). I noticed that your youngest if just a few months.

I still have strong emotional reactions and dd weaned over three years ago, so your theory does not apply to me.

I feel strong sadness and anger about our anti-breastfeeding culture when I see a mom bottle feeding. I feel angry that our culture (medical, tv ads, magazines, fellow moms) pushes formula and often give bf-sabotaging advice, I feel angry remembering my own experiences.

I find that the younger the baby is, the more likely the mom is to look sad if she is holding the bottle, which of course makes me feel sad. Truly, I see a lot of sad looking moms holding bottles and newborns in public. I always wonder is it PPD, do they feel isolated, or do those moms seem sad because they are mourning the loss of bf, because they "had to" supplement (due to bad advice that wasn't even true OR true need to supplement, or due to fearing criticism for nursing in public, etc. etc. etc.)