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"I supplement once a day... I mean, I need a break! don't you think?" - Page 3

post #41 of 178
Monkey's mom, I love your posts, and I totally agree.

Mostly I'm not so much enraged as I am sad and frustrated by comments like the mom the OP encountered. It's the birdcage.

If it were me, I would probably have told the mom that sometimes learning how to nurse while lying down is an *excellent* way to get a break. I didn't learn how to do it with #1 until she was a few months old, but I did it right away with #2 and it was wonderful.
post #42 of 178
Coming from somebody who struggled daily with supply issues until I swear my DD turned 5 months old.... I would have come UNGLUED on her.... but only because my heart would break each and every time I had to make my DD a stinking bottle of formula because I was dry as a bone

I remember the complete bliss I felt on the days I ONLY had to supplement once.... and then the MAGICAL DAY - the day that I didn't have to supplement at all!!!!

I'm so incredibly happy to say that I haven't had to supplement my DD with one drop of anything for almost two straight months now!!!! What an amazing thing it is
post #43 of 178
Another mom here who's had to supplement, for complicated medical reasons (unrelated to supply or to bf). And our breastfeeding relationship has not ended, not even close, as at 9 months my baby is still nursing REALLY frequently, at least every 2 hours. We supplement at night so my SO can feed her while I try to sleep, which I need to do or I'd have to stop breastfeeding completely. We started supplement at 3 months, her formula intake peaked around 6 or 7 months, and now she's getting a lot less each night. My supply seems to be adjusting accordingly. AND, my baby shows no signs of preferring the bottle, and often rejects it still, and wouldn't take it during the day (we've tried with water, etc.). Supplementing has not only allowed me to continue bfing, but it's allowed to continue to be a mother in the daytime at all.

I agree with those posters who said not to judge someone's choices when you don't/can't know their entire situation.
post #44 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxy
this probably comes from the fact that both times i had a newborn i was single (not by my choice), and will probably set off lots of angry posts, but here goes...
both of my sons were unplanned, both unplanned c-secs, ds1 self-weaned at 24 mos., ds2 is 2 and still nursing, i have no help w/ day to day care of my kids, and neither one ever, ever, ever got a bottle, not even ebm. every day i long for a break. i think anyone who "needs" a break after only 2 weeks is a wuss. i'm with the op.
ok, go ahead w/ the angry replies.
Not angry here, just . Five years ago, yeah, that would've whacked me off big time.

I mean, it is great that you have made it work. I admire that. But I used to read boasts like that and feel even worse about myself. We all can't be supermom, especially in the anti-BF culture we live in.
post #45 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gethane
I used to think that this was ONE forum on the internet I could go to and really get support for my views on bfing. Perhaps I'd have a better fit at MBC.

Especially on the Breastfeeding Support and Advocacy Forum for goodness sake!

This is what I'm talking about... I started this thread because i thought this was the ONE forum people would understand what I'm talking about...
post #46 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
This is what I'm talking about... I started this thread because i thought this was the ONE forum people would understand what I'm talking about...
FF mommies get support for their choice throughout our entire society. It's on TV, its in advertising. When's the last time a FF mommy was asked to cover up while bottle feeding, or to use the restroom to bottlefeed?

I think the problem is everyone externalizes their experiences onto random person A. When someone is critical of mommy A out in public, then mommy Y here on the forum applies her own situation to that mommy A and then gets upset on BEHALF of the judgement of mommy A. Frankly, we don't know if mommy A has nursing issues. We don't know if she's just selfish and wants to get back to her life. We don't know if she's going to let her 4 week old CIO, we don't know if she co-sleeps. We simply DON'T KNOW.

If someone wants to come here and let off a little steam in one of the VERY few places in US society that is supportive of breastfeeding, I really fail to see how its insulting every FF mommy who had to supplement for whatever reasons.

None of my friends or relatives successfully breastfed, they all "tried." Somehow I really doubt that 100% of the women I knew who tried bf all failed due to REAL issues. Yes, its hard. And for a very small minority of women, its not just hard, its impossible. I think I can safely say that no one is critical of those women for whom breastfeeding is impossible.

But where else can a pro bf mama go to vent off some steam about the fact that her society is SO pro ff that new mama's don't even know (or care?) that supplementing at 2 weeks can harm your supply? Now she isn't even supposed to go to the Mothering Breastfeeding Support and Advocacy Forum?

<sigh> I wish you ff and supplementing mama's could try to see it from that point of view. Yes, here on Mothering I can see how you might feel like you are in the minority, and feel sensitive due to that. But you AREN"T IN the minority in US society. We are, those of us who want to bf exclusively, up to and over a year. We are the minority.
post #47 of 178
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gethane
But where else can a pro bf mama go to vent off some steam about the fact that her society is SO pro ff that new mama's don't even know (or care?) that supplementing at 2 weeks can harm your supply? Now she isn't even supposed to go to the Mothering Breastfeeding Support and Advocacy Forum?

<sigh> I wish you ff and supplementing mama's could try to see it from that point of view. Yes, here on Mothering I can see how you might feel like you are in the minority, and feel sensitive due to that. But you AREN"T IN the minority in US society. We are, those of us who want to bf exclusively, up to and over a year. We are the minority.

thank you!

I never thought I would get this kind of responses (so unsupportive of bf) in the MDC breastfeeding support & ADVOCACY forum.
and the lady that came into the store the other day, this baby wasn't her first and I would like to refrase something... I was not "enraged" so much as I was "saddened" for the baby. I felt really bad for that baby... this is how I felt because in my own case and opinion, I would feel bad about supplementing my 3 month old, in fact, if needed I would buy milk from a milk bank before supplementing formula. This is my opinion that has been formed after having to wean my dd at 3 months for medical reasons. so now, with my son, I have been SO determined to bf until he self-weans.
post #48 of 178
ITA with the last two posts. This board has felt too mainstream lately. There are sooooo many of those boards, but VERY few like MDC. I have yet to find another. I have always felt safe coming here to vent my feelings(without trashing ff'ers) without feeling like I would be flamed. I do not even feel safe about it on mainstream boards with bf'ing forums. Too many ff'ers lurk on them to see what was bieng said. I made a post once on a bf board a couple of years ago. The title sounded inflamatory(good way to get reads), but the content was not. I had like 8 responses, but the number of views was ridiculously high. Too many lurkers. And I have seen in my years on public boards where both sides lurk on the other board looking for someone to say something wrong, then they are all over it and bringing all the other boards in on it. So, some things I come here for. I have always felt safe. Not to sound bitchy but people here who do formula feed need to keep in mind when they lurk on the bf boards that some of us do feel strongly about our stance. Likewise, I would not go over to Good Eating and tell someone who says they feel McD's is crap and would never feed it to thier kids that they need to watch it cause I may lurk and get my feelings hurt because I give it to my kids once in a while when I am too worn out to cook. I hope I can still come and feel safe venting here. I would hate to see this board change.

Ginger
post #49 of 178
I just have to totally agree with Ginger! I came to MDC because it was such a great fit for me and my parenting style and views.

I left a board I had been on since the conception of my DD because it was way too mainstream now, and honestly was causing way too much internal conflict with me.

This is the one place I FIT IN!! I agree we are so the minority in general! I don't know how many times I've gotten bad looks for NIP, how many times I've gotten into arguments about self weaning, how many times I have to EXPLAIN why I CD, the list goes on and on.

I still support the OP.... and maybe it's wrong of me to judge someone, but it sounds like the woman in the store took it (nursing) pretty light heartedly and like I said before, for somebody who really really struggled to make BFing work, it just plain ticks me off. It's kind of like people who struggle and struggle to have kids being surrounded by people who completely mistreat and don't deserve theirs.
post #50 of 178
But the mom does breast feed!!! Be angry at society, dont be angry at the mom. Maybe she has chosen to do the one bottle a day at the store because she is so sick ofgetting comments when she does nip. Not everyone is up for the noble and valiant fight to change the world. Some of us just want to raise our babies and do the best we can. And hey, if that means that one feeding comes from a bottle, so be it!!
I am a little scared and freaked out that you ladies are actually looking into babies bottles(even if it is from afar) to figure out if it is formula or breast milk so you can feel some level of (pity, anger, sadness, outrage) at the mom/baby!!

Lets try to support each other a little better, huh?
post #51 of 178
thank you, gethane, gidget, et al. you pretty much summed up my feelings on the subject. i still don't see why everyone is all over the OP here...how many times have we all come in here to vent about something similar, and haven't gotten flamed for it. i don't see anything offensive about the OP whatsoever.
post #52 of 178
ITA rareimer
post #53 of 178
Setting all judgements aside, I have to say that *often times* (notice I didn't say "everytime") supplementing, esp. at 2 wks. of age, is a really, really crappy idea if the mom wants to make breastfeeding work. I just went through this with a friend. She had a premie that had to stay in the hospital after she went home. She pumped while he was in the hospital, but never at night. Well, she got "used to sleeping at night" (her words) and didn't want to have to get up at night with a newborn after he came home, so she decided to give "just one bottle at night so she could get some sleep". But let's look at how this played out. She would nurse him at 9 PM, put him to bed, he would sleep for 4 hours or so, get a bottle of formula that filled him up so he would sleep *another* 4-5 hours (he would wake around 6 AM). So she now has a lowbirth weight newborn who needs tremendous calories for the growth spurts he is having and mom is not nursing from 9 PM until 6 AM. And now she has supply issues and the ped wants her to supplement after every feed with formula. How much longer do you think it will be before this baby is totally on formula? For a problem that could have been solved as easily as by telling her "if you want to make this work, you aren't going to be able to sleep all night"?

This scenario is all too common in our society. And yet we hear "experienced" mothers recommend to their friends who are new moms to give "just one bottle of formula a day" so they can have a break ALL THE TIME. Yes, some are blessed with bountiful supplies and babies thrive. But I think the scenario I've described above is more common than we would like to acknowledge. And society's answer - why, more formula! of course. And here at MDC we can't put to lie the notion that routine supplementing is totally harmless?

edited for spelling
post #54 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2six
This scenario is all too common in our society. And yet we here "experienced" mothers recommend to their friends who are new moms to give "just one bottle of formula a day" so they can have a break ALL THE TIME. Yes, some are blessed with bountiful supplies and babies thrive. But I think the scenario I've described above is more common than we would like to acknowledge. And society's answer - why, more formula! of course. And here at MDC we can't put to lie the notion that routine supplementing is totally harmless?
Well said, Chava!
post #55 of 178
So many great posts!

Last year I got reamed here on the Support and Advocacy board for posting my thought that WIC should not give free formula without a prescription. I actually didn't post on any of the bf'ing boards at MDC for awhile after that I was so mad. Boy, did that make some moms mad when I said that. It would be easy enough to get a prescription or a signed note from the pediatrician, wouldn't it? Seriously though, they offered formula every time I went in (I've since refused WIC because eating too much dairy gives me the runs and they won't give bf'ing moms the benefits after baby turns 1yo)... "are you supplementing at all?" Me- "No!". WIC- "If you need any formula, be sure to call us." Every time they offered. Not just once, but every time I went in... despite the fact that I told them dd nursed until 20 months and dd would wean himself. : They also gave me a hard time that dd doesn't drink milk, even when she was still nursing. :

So yes, I put a Militant Breastfeeding Cult picture on my website (since I don't want to be referred to as a nazi) and I boycott Nestle (gotta remember to check those labels, I bought a bar of chocolate at the hfs and after I gave a piece to dd I saw Nestle on the back ).

I don't hate moms who need to supplement, but I am very tired of formula being marketed to the public. How many girls/women just assume formula is just as good as human breastmilk. Sorry, it's not. It's wonderful for babies who can't nurse for whatever reason, it will keep them alive and growing... but it's not breastmilk. All I say, is that when the breastmilk is available- the baby deserves to receive that yummy milk.
post #56 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by gethane
FF mommies get support for their choice throughout our entire society. It's on TV, its in advertising. When's the last time a FF mommy was asked to cover up while bottle feeding, or to use the restroom to bottlefeed?

.

Such a good post!!!!!

AMEN!!!!
post #57 of 178
Thread Starter 
I totally agree that some boards here are very mainstream lately! just when I thought I's finally found a place for me...

anyway, I just think supplementing with formula just because you need a break is totally mainstream... but this is IMO and based on my personal experience..

ok.. fire away again!
post #58 of 178
I just wanted to share my experience. After a ped visit when my baby was 1 week old, I decided to give myself permission to give him a single bottle of formula up to once per day. I think that for me, this choice was an absolute lifesaver and a sanity saver. And since I was not experiencing any problems with milk supply, the choice was purely about giving myself a break once per day from breastfeeding.

As a single mom, with no car living in a small town and no help who was stuck inside with a newborn during a very cold winter, I felt really overwhelmed with having to be responsible for every single one of my baby's needs. Perhaps if I had a partner who could have cooked or shopped or done laundry once in awhile or changed a diaper or done ANYTHING at all, breastfeeding 10-14 times per day would not have felt quite as overwhelming. But being single and responsible for EVERYTHING left me needing to find some small space or time for myself. Obviously, I couldn't take a break by actually leaving the baby, but a bottle was a small space.

My son ate every 40 minutes to 2 hours for the first couple of months of his life. Giving him a bottle every once in awhile, meant not just a break in terms of time, but more importantly, once in awhile it gave me a stretch of time in which my body was my own again. My son nurses and co-sleeps and I'm very happy with those choices but I really think that it is likely if I had not allowed myself to occassionally supplement, I would have either given up on breastfeeding or given up on co-sleeping. I needed a tiny bit of freedom in those first days and using a bottle a few times per week gave me that sense of freedom and that I had a self outside the baby.

As it was, we got through those first two months, and I have (almost) never used formula again. Since the time that he was 10 weeks old, I've been exclusively breastfeeding on the 4 days per week that he is home with me and he gets almost exclusively EBM on the 3 days that he goes to day care. Each day, I send him with 3 bottles of breastmilk and one of formula. He drinks the three of breastmilk --once in a great while, he has very hungry day and also has a fourth bottle (formula). But 9 out of 10 times, he does not get to the fourth bottle and given how difficult, I find pumping, I decided that I'd rather have a bottle of formula thrown out almost every day than a precious bottle of EBM.

Come to think of it, although I gave myself permission to give him formula once per day, I ended up actually giving him formula far less often than my "permission" allowed so it was more about giving up the guilt than about actually using the formula. Prior to the ped visit, I was so worried about nipple confusion or lessening my milk supply or about early weaning, that I was determined not to give him a bottle for at least a couple of months and never formula. But honestly, I think in my case, my initial refusal to use a bottle just caused me stress and guilt.

The truth is that the occassional bottle (it ended up being a few times per week), never interfered with my milk supply, I still have plenty for him. And at six months, he clearly prefers nursing to drinking from a bottle and certainly prefers breastmilk to formula. My hope is that this will remain the case for at least a year or more.

By the time that I went back to work when he was 10 weeks or so old, life had gotten a little bit easier and I was less overwhelmed. Plus, I had 3 days per week at my job which gave me a break of sorts (and some adult company!). Thus, I no longer felt the need for a break from breastfeeding so I rarely use a bottle now and the rare times that I do, it is always thawed breastmilk.

I know that someone wrote that if the woman needed a break, she should use EBM. That might work for some women, but I find the whole cleaning the equipment, pumping etc process extremely onerous and I never produce much milk. It would not have been a break for me to give up a nursing session in favor of a pumping session. A break was pouring a can of liquid formula into a disposable liner so that all I had to do was feed the baby and then wash the nipple and collar later. I did not even use the powder mix. So while I did not do it often, it was a huge help when I did --often when I was feeling absolutely at the end of my rope.

In fact, I could not even find a spare moment to research and purchase a good pump for my needs (in my price range) for more than a month after the baby was born. Figuring out which pump to buy and learning how to use it was a difficult process and there was no way that I would have been able to use EBM in the first few weeks after he was born. In fact, I still can't pump and nurse at the same time, I just don't seem to be that coordinated. I really can only pump when the baby is at day care and I did not have child care in those first two months.

my 2 cents
clarissa
post #59 of 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by loving-my-babies
Arggg.. I was completely *enraged* last night where I work. Well, I work at a Children's store part time, and this lady came in with this 2 week old beautiful baby. She was beautiful, she looked like a little angel. Well, the baby's grandma was holding the baby and the mom was right next to her. The grandma said "my daughter is trying to breastfeed" and I said "oh, that's great. You will love it, it is so good for them too". and then she said "yeah, but I supplement ONLY once a day, you know, I need a break here! don't you think?"
If this woman is already needing a break from her baby after ONLY 2 weeks, what is she going to be like in 6 months or a year or two years?

I know what she'll be like, I've seen it way to many times! She'll be one of those people that shoves her baby/child off on anyone that will watch her for a few hours so she can go do whatever she wants. Some people need to realize that being a parent is about putting your child first, doing what is best for them!
post #60 of 178
YOu know, all these posts make me very sad. I could have very easily been the mom in need of the break.

YOu don't know what her labor and delivery were like. Or if she was getting enough help at home.

I had to pump foor dev becaue she has laryngomalacia and was unable to nurse efficently. However, my mom was no help, and dh, who managed to get a job during this time, had to work14-16 hours a day. I had no help. I was physically exhausted, and still very very weak from my labor (nearly requeried a blood transfusion due to hemmoraging). If my friend had not been out on disability, and able to take me to her home for 2 weeks, I would have had to supplement for my sanity and health.

I had to nurse dd fro 15 min ( she was unable to nurse longer than that), pump, and supplement with ebm, to do it again an hour later. around the clock. Using the finger feeding method took about 30-40 min at a time, which meant between cleaning equipment, syringes, etc, I maybe got 15 min to rest before doing it again. My daughter spent 45 min of almost every hour eating. My friend was able to help by washing the equipment, and most importanly, giving me a 4 hour streach of sleep at night where she fed dev for me with ebm. I needed that break to make milk. I was suffering from serious ppd brought on by sleep deprivation. My mom knew NOTHING about bf. She just didn't know anything.

Dev has gotten formula 3 times: in the hospital 3 hours after birth because I was too weak to feed her, at 5 days old because my mil hadn't come in ahd she lost about 15% of her birth weight and was jaundiced, and the lc said to give it to her so she could be fed until she came with the pump, and at 2 months when I was hospitalized with a migraine and my in laws didn't find my frozen milk. I used to feel guilt over it. I refuse to now.

You don't know what is happening in her life. Don't be so quick to judge.
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