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post #41 of 49
Have only skimmed but two things popped into my heads:

Do you think the mothers of adult abusers are any less sickened by the thought that it was their boy that did it? Do you think when their boys were little wee ones that they would not have reacted as strongly as you all have? I sense almost a tiny shift towards the "won't happen to me" side, which makes me nervous. I am unaware of this other thread being mentioned, but I think what the OP said was the honest truth and while I totally understand why boy mamas got their mama bear vibes going....let's try to see beyond the emotions for a second. NO mother wants or believes that their child is going to grow up to be a predator. If we can't talk about it as openly as the OP did, we won't get anywhere.

Second, I think that boys who abuse this way are just dysfunctional, period. And boys, being much more physical and sexually aggressive than girls, act out this dysfunctionality via sexual predation. Subject a little girl to the same kind of abuse, neglect, dysfunctional parenting and she likely won't lash out as an adult sexual predator, but in some other equally destructive (though statistically, less violent) manner. Perhaps she'll starve herself to death.

My point is, I think it's not so much a question of "what makes a sexual predator" as to "what makes a disturbed child?". Thus, it's not a question so much of treating boys differently, rather just honouring them, keeping them intact in spirit, secure, attached, etc...basically what all of us AP parents strive so hard to do.

Hope that makes sense.
post #42 of 49
Quote:
how do we raise our boys to be loving around women and not hurt them?
i'm sure that anything i'll say has already been posted, as i have yet to read the thread..... but let me just put this in.

i think the key to raising *anyone* to be loving, compassionate, and not want to hurt people is to raise them in a securely attached, loving, compassionate home environment. teach them to respect others and treat others with dignity and -- dare i use the word -- fellowship. teach them to respect life. teach them empathy, and how to relate to others.

may i (again?) post the article i love about this topic ~ http://www.paganparenting.net/inform...es/swords.html
post #43 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
let's try to see beyond the emotions for a second. NO mother wants or believes that their child is going to grow up to be a predator. If we can't talk about it as openly as the OP did, we won't get anywhere
Piglet, thank you so much for putting into words what I have been baffled with for days now. I truly hope that the AP moms on this board ARE least likely to raise the typical/agressive male . I hope AP is a great solution! But the whole " well girls are mean too" " lets not catagorize the sexes" is just well, beyond my grasp. Girls ARE disproportionately raped and abused by males worldwide as a tool of dominance, humiliation, war and cultural acceptance....including the good ol USA. All crimes against all peoples are horrible. But I am trying to work out the abuses in the male/female order and most of the posters have really great points.klothos, great article, thanks for sharing, I will pass it along to some mamas of boys I know..
post #44 of 49
Quote:
I think men in our culture are for the most part at a loss about what it means to be a man, what their role is, and I am not talking about 50's ideals but a more holistic approach.
Wonderful point. I want to ask dh about this when he gets home tonight! What does it mean to him to be a Man?

Quote:
Second, I think that boys who abuse this way are just dysfunctional, period. And boys, being much more physical and sexually aggressive than girls, act out this dysfunctionality via sexual predation. Subject a little girl to the same kind of abuse, neglect, dysfunctional parenting and she likely won't lash out as an adult sexual predator, but in some other equally destructive (though statistically, less violent) manner. Perhaps she'll starve herself to death.
That makes sense.

I have a son and a daughter. I'm trying to teach them both to have self respect and to treat others with dignity and respect. And in this age, I teach them both how to be safe. That's all I can do, I believe.
post #45 of 49
Were I not a rape survivor, I probably wouldn't think about this with my ds. But since I am, I have had fleeting thoughts about it. I've read some, but not all, of the posts here. What I've read makes a lot of sense. I think that if I do have a dd also, that there are very few differences in how I would approach this with her. AP parenting, teaching them to respect others, and protecting our children is probably the best we can do.

I am also teaching ds to respect others and their space. I'm trying to teach him that if he wants to give a friend a hug, he needs to ask first (and wait for the answer). Also, if someone has a toy he wants, he's not to take a toy from someone, he's to ask if he can play with it, or trade. (If I have a dd, I will teach her the same things). And, although I realize that rape is more about power and control than about sex, dh and I will teach ds at an appropriate age that if he is going to have sex, he needs to respect the other person and if they say "no", that means "no".

If I have a dd, I will teach her that she doesn't alway need to be "nice". If someone makes her feel uncomfortable, she doesn't need to pretend they don't. I think that too many of us are taught the opposite, and that as children we were/are forced to ignore our instincts so as not to offend anyone. I know I was. And girls are taught this more than boys. (As I'm typing this, I'm realizing that I'll teach ds to listen to his instincts, too, same as if he were a girl). I may even encourage her to take a self-defense class, too, but I don't know. Shoot, if we were anywhere near the people who taught the self-defense class I took years ago, I'd have ds take their class for kids (when he's a bit older).

I do think that it's important not to teach fear, though. If we do, then we're teaching them the same thing the potential preditor/abuser would teach them! Childhood is a time when no one should have to be afraid. We have enough time for that in adulthood. And a few lucky people aren't even afraid then. I want my ds (and any other child we might have) to feel secure and empowered, and to allow others to feel the same. Time will tell if dh and I are successful at that.

Hope I've made at least a little sense here.

Christie
post #46 of 49
I have two boys, 6 and 2, and a baby girl. There are going to be differences in how I raise them. My 6yo is very physical, in both good ways and bad. He is very affectionate, which is good. But he is also prone to throwing things and hitting when he gets angry or upset. The fact that he doesn't get in MORE fights is a testament to his amazing willpower and our guidance. I KNOW that his first instinct is to act out physically when he gets upset.

He has always played with girls more than boys, and part of that is simple geography. Our neighbors have always been girls, and he plays with them at school, too. I have said to him, while talking about hitting and such, that it is NEVER okay to hit a girl. NEVER. And I made it specific to girls, too. That might be un-feminist of me, but there is an imbalance of power between boys and girls in this society, even on the playground. That difference will become more pronounced as he grows older, but hopefully will be less pronounced than it was for my generation. I want him to understand, now, at age 6, that it is NEVER okay for a boy to hit a girl. NEVER. And yes, it is less okay for a boy to hit a girl than another boy. We don't ignore the issue of him engaging in physical altercations with other boys. We tell him over and over that hitting is rarely the answer, and that he should only do so ino rder to defend himself, and only if he can't get away to tell an adult. But we emphasize that he should never hit a girl. As he gets older, we'll talk more about sexism and his role in fixing it. Feminism isn't just for daughters.

I think men learn respect for women by seeing women that respect themselves and are respected by the men in their lives. I don't expose my son to sexist, racist, generally crappy men. Someone told a story of calling their mother a nasty name and their father talking to him about it. My dad did the same thing with my brother once, and I doubt he's forgotten it.

Like it has already been said several times, I'll do what I can to make sure that my sons are not abused in any way, themselves. I think the statistics about male victims of sexual abuse are seriously underreported. I think it is rare for a person who has never been abused in any way to become an abuser. Rape is about power, not sex.

Also, when the time comes, my husband and I will talk to them about how NO means NO means NO. Never have sex with a girl who is drunk, no matter how many times she says she wants to and no matter how many times you've had sex with her before. Never assume that a girl wants to have sex, get her express consent. (Yes, you can ask. My husband asked me the first few times we had sex. No mixed signals.) Obviously the conversations I have with my daughter will be a bit different. There isn't much chance of her forcing herself on a man. I'm not sure how I'll deal with that. I still have a lot of reading to do.

Sorry if this is disconnected. Getting close to time to go get my kid from school.
post #47 of 49
Mothra, I'm sort of kidding here, just to tease you. Since you make such a point of saying you will teach your son to NEVER hit a girl, NEVER. Though it's rare, sometimes grade school boys get picked on by bigger girls. What if a girl hits him. How should he respond?

You make a good point about the imbalance of power between males and females, though.
post #48 of 49
Thoughts on boys and hitting.

We have four "rules" which I go over and over with my oldest, whose emotions run close to the surface and who has lashed out a few times. You do each step in succession after each action from the other person. No skipping steps!

If somebody hits you or picks on you:
1. Tell them to stop, that you don't like it.
if that doesn't work,
2. Walk away.
then,
3. Tell an adult (teacher, parent, caregiver)
if no action is taken and it happens again
4. Hit back!

We added step 4 because I have seen a couple of playground incidents and he's been around a couple of aggressive kids whose parents NEVER disciplined them in any way, and at that point I'd have been happy if they smacked their kid, just to keep them off mine! So, I figure, if he's not being protected by people who are supposed to protect him, he ought to protect himself.

We've not made them gender specific, though, more size-specific. Like it's NEVER okay to hit babies because they can't talk and don't know any better!
post #49 of 49
I knew someone would say that. It has not happened that he was never able to get away from a girl who hit him. We stress that ANYTIME someone else hits him, he is to walk away, and get physical only if he has to get another child off of him. It has not happened that he's resorted to this with a girl, but we have told him that he can put his hands on a girl if she attacks him and he is unable to just walk away.

My son is physically big for his age, even though he is young for his grade, he is one of the biggest kids in his class. He's even taller than most of the girls. A girl would really have to just have it out for him to attack him. He doesn't have problems with many kids. We talk about what happens at school daily, so when there is a problem we try to catch it and deal with it before it becomes physical. He has learned to just walk away when another child hits him. Usually. We've only had one problem in the three and a half months we've lived here, and it was with a little boy and he started it. It is easier for him to walk away than restrain himself from instigating, I think.

I don't want him to totally not defend himself in the rare event that a girl does just totally attack him, but this just isn't very likely to happen. Girls usually pick on other girls, which is another thread. I think it is more important that he get the message that he just is not to hit girls.
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