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November/December '02 --the latest incarnation - Page 10

post #181 of 404
Originally Posted by casina
so do you want to hear it?
yes, of course we do. or at least I do.

internet: remember that most libraries have internet access for free. You can check in weekly there, if not at home. Also helpful to email if you're like me and wanting to email family/friends who live far away.
post #182 of 404
Yes, yet more wisdom please Casina.
Men...boys what can I say? I hate this word but can't come up with a better one. My dh and I constantly micromanage eachother when it comes to parenting. The whole house could be falling down around our ears and often is and we'll be nattering at eachother about whether she should be dressed more warmly or if she's eating with the right sized fork. I am just as guilty as he is. It is hard for me to give up mama control sometimes.He is a good daddy and I am lucky.
Good luck to all of you going through such dramatic change. You are so brave.

Maria, mama to Faye 11.17.02
post #183 of 404
Wah! I lost my post! Oh well...I was just congratulating Rose on her new Senior Member status! :LOL
post #184 of 404
lilmiss'mama~~ I think that boys are behind girls by two years in the "pubesent age" right? And I think that once they catch up to girls in the physical, they are behind in the emotional. It's what feels true to me, and I've heard that before too. So it's like my bro is 18, emotionally, and he's still growing physically, as well. I don't think anyone is saying "boys must be boys" around here, because he needs to grow up, but has never really had a chance. He had a baby at barely 19, mamafern is 2 years older than him.

ANYways, if you want to talk about this, fern, PM me.
post #185 of 404

okay, where to start? i'm the mamma with the hitting kid that doesn't make him apologize. hitting is a large part of my life sometimes, like this past month with the weather being too hot to get out and dh working an extra hour a day and having more gigs. i will bet money that most of you will not have an almost six that is still reacting this way. so that's my disclaimer. i'm sort of an expert on my own family, and that's about it.

hitting and other annoying society frowntype behaviour have pretty basic reasons. for this age, the 18 month, some of it is just experimental play like everything else. you show them the soft touch or other things they can do or you laugh or you say ouch but take it in the spirit it is in. no panic. be calm and easy mamma and don't give it any more attention than anything else they do that is new.

a second reason is between the child and siblings. a creative drama that works to get parents involved. sometimes i have to pretend that it isn't happenning and go back to folding laundry. if i stay in bed after all three are up in the morning there are no altercations until i get up. sometimes i have energy to show them how to work it out, which sometimes is talking, reminding them to get me, and sometimes telling clay just to get away from reed.

third reason is tiredness sickness hunger frustration stress you name it. and here i offer two books that have helped me. one is the five love languages of children which reminds me where i am coming from. the other is called easy to love difficult to discipline which has the premise that we have to have the skills we want to teach.

i have certain goals as a mamma. i am fostering adult mental emotional spiritual and physical health. for me this means that certain tactics, and i have used them all, like distraction, fear, suppression, rewards and punishment, reasoning, you name it, do not address the problems, and sometimes create more.

i have had to look at how i behave and how i react. i need validation and acceptance no matter how ridiculous it may seem. i need rest and food and love. these are what our kids need unconditionally.

so one thing is to observe and prevent some of the outbursts. they are our teachers. if they are obnoxiously tired, you are the discipline they do not have and you help them. if certain people have the wrong vibe (like reed whacking my mom with a metal pipe last week) then you will have to control the exposure. make your home so that you do not have to say no. out of sight is out of mind. hide the things that can cause frustration for both of you. the little things add up.

the way i have come to see it, is that my kids are human. i am human. we are all animals. we get mad and upset, and in this world there are minutaie of stresses. it is natural to hit and flail. we all need to scream sometimes. or maybe not, my family is chock full of intensity. another form is whining and biting. it is okay to feel these ways, and we special mammas are going to see it because we rear our children to feel completely comfortable to do so. in our society it is not okay to behave these ways and people become closed and depressed and afraid and truly angry. i have come to live comfortably and see more the beauty of raw negative emotions in all people. in their best form they can become motivating and empowering. i want my kids to know their bodies and feelings. so yes, they run like wild animals. and they are openhearted, beautiful creatures.

impulse control is needed before the negative behaviours go away if you want them conditioned even with any form of discipline. so, no, for our babies, it will happen often or rarely until a certain age. what i'm saying is don't work too hard. just be cool. i'll say for many kids, things change around threeish. and five. and seven. a good tool is to know how kids behave around certain ages. and the acting out physically is a part of going from a lump to walking and talking and knowing that they are themselves is the terrible two people are talking about, the two year old negative stage that we are beginning already. observing older children will help you feel better about your own kids behaviour. it is normal, and the reality of emotions is quite an amazing thing.

i had to decide again whether i was doing the right thing, parenting this way. it is hard because we lack the village. in the village all the kids would have all the same rules and very little punishment would need to be given because all the kids would know. so we tend to be our own little villages in each household, and this requires much more energy and reinforcement or safety. though it is nice to have our own private paradise.....i had some well intentioned mothers seeing how frazzled i was offer spanking and revoking privileges as tools, and i was very open to their perspectives..... and came to realize again that i am intentionally disciplining by rolemodeling and natural consequences.

so i guess i'm better at troubleshooting, but the general rules for me apply for hitting. the cure for a fussy baby is rest for the mamma. be happy or become happy, which starts with forgiveness. know myself and know my children and help them know themselves. learn to be. start by noticing a moment you are alone with a child, and completely focus your attention on them as long as the moment lasts. believe we are all doing the best we can and learn how to live assertively with it. know that we can change our minds about what we are doing at any time by following our hearts.

so there, once again more than i'll daresay to some irl friends on the subject.
post #186 of 404

Thank you so much for taking the time to share all of that with us. It was beautiful and timely and oh so true. I have been figuring out some of that on my own, but the way you put it I feel like I now have the whole picture. Thank you. I for one am sick of parenting without a village. I think that we should start our own.

You are so right about a cure for a fussy baby is a rested mama.... I was reminded once again the other night how my emotions affect dd so strongly. And the differences in the sexes - very interesting.


s to all the mamas going through hard times...

Good Luck lilmissmama - what an adventure! We will miss you here, so do try to check in when you can.
post #187 of 404
the cure for a fussy baby is rest for the mamma. be happy or become happy, which starts with forgiveness. know myself and know my children and help them know themselves. learn to be. start by noticing a moment you are alone with a child, and completely focus your attention on them as long as the moment lasts. believe we are all doing the best we can and learn how to live assertively with it. know that we can change our minds about what we are doing at any time by following our hearts.

I am printing this casina. I think you have really hit upon my philosophy of parenting here.

and when I read your post the one thing that kept coming to mind is that it does take a village to raise a child, but...
I think the village is mostly for the parents -- meaning that without support parents cannot do a good job nourishing little minds and bodies and spirits.
post #188 of 404
and because i didn't want it to be in the same post.

on men, growing up and whatnot.

I do think that men/boys/whatever are behind in being mature. But I wonder if women are forced to grow up sooner. Specifically with regards to parenting: I mean for us the baby is real so much sooner than it is for men. We can feel it before, we know baby's routines, we nourish that baby. BF babies really aren't interested in anyone but mama for soooo long that dad's are really not forced to confront the reality that another person is so intimately connected to them. So moms take the lead and then it is hard to get out of that rut. I'm not suggesting that dad should always be in charge, just in the hierarchy of life we develop patterns and it is hard to break free of that pattern.
post #189 of 404
Originally Posted by kerc

I am printing this casina. I think you have really hit upon my philosophy of parenting here.

and when I read your post the one thing that kept coming to mind is that it does take a village to raise a child, but...
I think the village is mostly for the parents -- meaning that without support parents cannot do a good job nourishing little minds and bodies and spirits.
. Me too. Mama Jazza, I've been thinking about your post about staying with your mom right now and how wonderful that has been for you. I have to admit, I've been a bit jealous. I do wish my mom was that supportive and involved. I'm so happy for you that she is there to help you now and will be there for the birth of your new baby. The village is definetley for us parents primarily, but I think the kiddos would benefit (or in MamaJaza's case, do benefit) from all the love of the people around them.

Okay, I'm going to stop rambling now....
post #190 of 404
Casina I have read thru your post and like what you've written. What you are talking about goes beyond mothering, really. It speaks to the unconscious patterns we are/I am being moved from. My embodiment of 'the mother' is an aspect of shedding light on those shadows. My child is providing me with the opportunity for liberation. And no, liberation is not too strong a word to use when you think of how instinctive and blind one's reactions are.

I've just read a wonderful article and it has deeply shifted my language around ds. It talks about the use of praise as being simply another form of judgement. I started to look at how often I praise ds, more specifically how often I am qualifying his behaviour with a) my own experience and b) a judgement that really has nothing to do with the situation except that it's my own conditioning arising. I didn't realize how frequently I was cultivating the judgemental mind. I've started to simply keep quiet when he does something that I think is adorable/intelligent/'good' or else just name what he is doing with interest. This is suprisingly hard, 'very good' just trips off my tongue thruout the day. But when I remove the qualifier 'good' I have also removed the qualifier that lies behind it which, of course is 'bad' and ds's behavior ceases to be about good or bad, my mothering ceases to be about good or bad, as does my sense of self. Good or bad become irrelevant on a certain level. This is a lovely feeling.

When I feel spacious I remember that becoming a mom started with my body becoming an accomodation for another being. And that's how I continue to try and see being a mom--at it's deepest level I am an accomodation, a spaciousness for another being to unfold and grow.

I still wanna know what color you painted your wall, casina
post #191 of 404
Solsticemama you have such a lovely way with words. I love the way these posts today are making me think and feel. I would be interested in knowing more about the article you read. Could you let me know where I could find it?
post #192 of 404
solsticemama- i agree. i read that article awile back, maybe at http://www.naturalchild.org/home/ ?
i love jan hunt, and her group. she speaks to my heart. this concept is also deeply addressed in The Continuum Concept.

post #193 of 404
Thanks punk Actually the article is here tho the site you posted looks like an interesting one, Mona.

I just re-read my post and wanted to add that ds's freedom is not separate from mine nor mine from his, akin to what was said about the interplay between fussy baby needing a relaxed mama. We are breathing and being breathed by each other. Casina, what you suggests requires bravery. This morning at the playground I listened to 2 parents direct the responses of their children, one having just hit the other. Apologies were placed in the mouth of the hitter by the parent of the hitter and thank-yous were placed in the mouth of the hittee. It had nothing to do with the children, who were both too young to be aware of social convention, control of emotion/body but I could hear the almost desperation on the parents' part to smoothe the whole interaction into comfortable homogeneity and felt my own inner parent wanting to do the same. So courage mothers!
post #194 of 404
i don't know about bravery. i am driven to parent this way. it started as a desire to find out what my parents did that harmed me and find the alternative course. i have an unusual eldest child that requires it or be squashed and miserable otherwise. it is very hard for me. today i had to come and read my own durned post. i'm sure a video of my family would be shockingly different from what i describe when i write.

the hardest is that it is in many ways exactly the opposite of the way i was raised. so i have had to let go of control and change my perceptions. most bumpling into me and pushing me do not register as violence anymore, unless i am exhausted. but just that takes practice practice practice. my parents only touched us to hit us. i have no memory of being cuddled or even sitting close to them.
the second hardest is that it deeply affects my sociability. i thought i was picky about who i was friends with: well now i have to find compatability with a mamma and all her kids with all my kids. what triggered me to rethink what i was doing is because i was spending mondays with a lovely lady with same age spirited children but opposite sexes. one day reed raged and screamed that he had to be first, that the kids should all do what he said and ran at her daughter and hit her. the daughter was not intimidated, and just asked what was wrong. but the mamma, who i still love, and we parted on a peaceful note, is now not so accepting of reed. she did not say so but that is the feeling i get. and i don't blame her, i have gone through the same thing she has. and he can smell that fear a mile away, and preys on that weakness. so my mondays are out, until he's seven probably. my dealings in public, with strangers, family and even really good friends that parent the same are significantly altered because we are respecting our childrens limits.

i find talking overrated, and the praise issue is a good example. i'm also ideally not in favor of enforced manners or sharing. my kids know that when i rub their hair that it is love unconditionally, not talking to make them do something i want. i'm also working on my facial expressions and my stillness since i've been bred to react. like earlier clay threw a hard object across the room near ruby and there was no harm done. i'm sure i made a face and i got a little nervous, but it was better than yelling and panicking, which sometimes they just soak up and use to begin acting crazy and throwing even more.
like i said, i feel i HAVE TO parent this way. it is the only way i can live with myself. i have watched other people decide to ap parent and homeschool because they believe in it ideally when they have more tractable kids, and of course the kids benefit. but for me there is no other option, this is the way things are.

as for the village, this is why i strongly encourage finding potential friends now. it is before the kids get to the age where they will complain that you are talking to someone else, and other mammas can get to know and like your children in this adorable age. i have three good friends (and yesterday i emailed them to thank them for existing) that have talked about cohousing and even looked at some land, but i think in the end it is the dads and economics that keep us from doing it, at least trying it. hey, some of them are already kings in their castles. i know that the state of single parenting is going to affect the upcoming generations' sex relations for the better.....

these past few days i have had much to say.....once again my kids help me stay in balance.

i have a room that is a chocolate suede. after i did it years ago i find that there is not enough light in the room to have such a dark color though i love the coziness of it sometimes. so i painted a fuzzy edged rectangle, like a built in canvas, of broadspectrum white. i have some giant rubber circles and circle cutouts that i got out of a dumpster last week across from reed's kung fu that i plan to place a design on the area, though i haven't figured out how. yes, i fished in a dumpster standing midair with ruby in the sling in the rain. so this will confirm i am crazy, if my parenting philosophy doesn't
post #195 of 404
just wanted to say that tho I am gone (time constraints), I have not forgotten you all

looks as tho I have been missing lots of great stuff and that makes me sad, but dd brings me another book to read her and that makes me happy
post #196 of 404
Right on casina for dumpster-diving!! My bro does it all the time, and we eat a lot of the stuff that he finds (like 3 friggen cases of soymilk, just a month "past due"!!) I don't like to actually get in there tho.

I've been recently dreaming of painting my space. Every room in this house is either a shade of pink or peach.:yuck My mom got a good deal on the paint like what, 10 years ago! I'd like to paint a nice warm butter yellow and a nice beigish color.

I also had the thought casina that you were a buddist monk in your past life. And you've re-incarnated as a woman to experience being a mother. Just a feeling, I'm not claiming to be psycic or something. The things that you say are just so deep.

I was also thinking about the idea of "no praise" and I wonder how you get the baby to potty train for example. I talked to my mom about this and she doesn't seem to think that it's really that easy to do in this negative, cynacle(sp?) world. She seems to think that we need the posative to balance the negative, and in an ideal world we would be able to do "no praise".

I actually can't remamber getting much praise during childhood unless it was to do with something I did artsy(I was the artsy kid), or in cards for my birthday.

The thing that I realized today is that I don't live in a little bubble zone where I can parent the way I want to. My mother has a lot of time with haeven and she doesn't parent the same way I do, though she is a grama, but it's like she is in the position of other parent because my partner is not here. And I can't tell her I don't want her to say that or do that with haeven because she takes it hard (defensively) and the fact that she is the grama. *Sigh* so you see there is an upside to living just with your partner (or by yourself) because you have the say in how they are talked to and raised.

My mom was very lenient with me. She's really quite "cool". But some of the things that she does that bug me is doing little power trips sometimes, like not letting her have something just because it's not a toy, but she's not going to hurt herself... etc.... of course it's not like this all the time, and I have my "problems" too.
post #197 of 404
well, i did paint some rooms with kids two years ago. it can be done. i did the trim with a brush and then used a power roller. it is not "powered" it is a thirty dollar heavy ol thing with parts to clean out everytime, but you can put a quart of paint in the plunger and paint at least two walls with no open can or tray of paint for the kids to get into. i have a collection of oops, generally five or eightdollars a gallon, and use any craft paint i get on sale or not to alter the color to what i want. i have never had luck in choosing the right color even with a swatch so i just wing it and do alot of mixing.
i'm about to have to dig up everything and finish damen's studio, do some priming and sheetrock mud. he's been wanting his own cave since....he was born. so it will contribute to everyone's sanity the sooner i get it done....

mamajaza and mamafern, i don't know your brother, elwynn's daddy. actions can be inappropriate, but not necessarily indicative of age. and sadly a common state of men and women in these times in the states, where we have an expectation of having a daddy around and they do not share that expectation. having said that, i have a belief in that things happen the way they happen. and that we cannot control anyone but ourselves. so i'm putting my energy into things being wonderful as single mothers for you, and lilmissmama, and zaxmama. i have watched more than a few men bail at different times, and for some reason this is one of the ages of children that i've seen this happen three different times. i want you to know that whatever happens, that the relationship with the mother is everything to the child, and especially at this age and obviously for awhile, since reed needs me so much and everyone tells me to wait til he becomes more a child at seven.....we are going to be mothers until we die. it will be how you make of it. those who help you, they are not the mother and the kids know it, though it will definitely benefit your kids to know other people. i believe in the social needs of humans. your kids may have some different patterns from the quantity hours of who they are with, but their bond with you is unmistakable, and in the end it will be you that sets the tone of how things are for your kids, as long as you are present daily. (there are even dire situations i've observed where the mother is selfish and negligent and still i believe that the kids need their mother, that she needs help in order to help the kids, i'd just rather not friends with those situations right now....) i guess i've just been thinking about you single mammas lately......
post #198 of 404
Originally Posted by casina
i am driven to parent this way. it started as a desire to find out what my parents did that harmed me and find the alternative course.
This is, at its depth, an act of bravery IMO.

*Mamajaza*, I agree, casina is our resident 'wise woman'

XmasEve I was beginning to wonder if we'd hear from you again. Glad to have you back, if briefly.

Today has been so so. I got a bad haircut and my ego is sufficiently engaged to be bothered by the way it looks. Irritatingly, this superficial occurrence has me questioning my worth as a mom, woman, decent human being etc. Ugh some days are just like walking thru molasses in terms of being interested, engaged, present and awake. Hormones maybe. Anyone else still not have their first pp moon?
post #199 of 404
i'm laughing. i consider you, solsticemama, the resident wise woman. you seem able to breathe life deeply, and i envy your ability to have attention to the moment.

i have no advice on hair. i've grown fond of my practical shave after two years. it reminds me when i look in the mirror that i'm a nonconformist, in some ways makes it easier for me with strangers since they already expect me to be strange. and i have no worries about my feminimity since i am surrounded by children and nursing babes. and i do get asked if i'm a buddhist monk, which is even funnier as i am yelling at my kids or loading groceries as i nurse. my perception of a buddhist monk, aside from sand pictures and throat singing, which me and dh have worked on doing on and off, is largely my paternal grandmother, who joined the temple long ago to get away from watching grandchildren and have the freedom to smoke lots of cigarettes. she thought my haircut was hideous, and hers is cut to the scalp.

i'm starting my fourth moon, which is shaky on when they come. this one tried to start twice already and this baffles me, that i could hold on to a cushiony lining for so long. so the hormones are wacky to say the least. i guess it got my words flowing.
post #200 of 404
okay, i put a picture i just took of my wall, my no cost modern art with paint and rubber. i just picked some pieces and started gluing. i think it took less than one hours work, though i needed prodding anyway to get it done. it's on the last page of my photo link.
so does anyone see what i see? i wonder if dh will notice it.
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