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homosexuality - nature vs. nurture - Page 2

post #21 of 35
excuse me but tomboys or boys that like dolls does not a gay person make.

Gender identity is not directly related to sexual preference. Being gay does not mean that boy wants to be a girl or vice versa. There is alot of stereotyping and misinformation being spread in this thread.
post #22 of 35
Quote:
There is alot of stereotyping and misinformation being spread in this thread.
I was just comparing what the OP heard on the radio to my children.--about signs that children are gay. That is why I said that I believe my children's behavior to be normal--and not signs that they are gay.
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
excuse me but tomboys or boys that like dolls does not a gay person make.

Gender identity is not directly related to sexual preference. Being gay does not mean that boy wants to be a girl or vice versa. There is alot of stereotyping and misinformation being spread in this thread.
Where are you finding stereotyping and misinformation? I think everyone is saying that same thing that you are trying to say.
post #24 of 35
I wasn't specifically meaning you Tamera. I just used the tomboys and dolls thing because it was the first examples that popped in my head. I probably shouldn't have alot of stereotyping. But there is some.

It's something that I see alot here so I'm sure I've carried over some of the other posts I've read about the way kids act or what they like to play with as meaning they are gay.
post #25 of 35
Oh...Gotchya Arduinna!

I was starting to confuse myself again. :LOL
post #26 of 35
There was a post, I think in Activism, about the sad suicide of a man who was inwillingly the subject of an experiment with twins to "prove" that sexuality was caused by nurture. It failed horribly. They did a circumcision on him that ruined his penis - so...they did what any sane people would do and lopped the whole thing off, gave him hormones, and raised him as a girl! I mean, that's what we'd all do if our kids were hurt my circs, right????





I don't hear any agreement yet!!!!!





OK. So it was nuts and he knew all the time he wasn't a girl and his brother knew it too. What a horrible life he had until he figured it all out and went back to being a boy. (They tried to force him to have an artificial vagina made.) So you are attracted to who you are attracted to. People may realize that they are attracted to another sex at some point but not because someone made them or changed them that way.

I don't know about people being able to tell at an early age. Many kids do things that count as "boy" or "girl" things in our particular culture (they're all different when it comes to gender) that have no impact on what their sexuality is.

My mother believes that people CHOOSE to be homosexual - which is a pretty wierd thing to me, given how prejudiced our society is against them. Why would anyone choose that if he or she could just as easily choose to be hetereosexual? Choosing to follow a lifestyle that matches your true sexuality is a different story. I think she's a bit mixed up. Sigh!
post #27 of 35
Thread Starter 
That was part of what made me go "huh?" in the first place - I wondered what "signs" he was talking about, and what evidence he had that supported his conclusion? Did he mean that "effeminate" boys or boys who play dress up (or interior design, as in my first example ) or girls who wear flannel and climb trees turn out to be gay? Did he follow a potentially gay child from 3 years old until they grew up to see if they were gay? I doubt it, I doubt anyone has.

Not to relate everything back to the "ism" threads, but it did strike me that this statement wasn't even questioned by anyone, not the host nor any of the callers. And it was a big statement to make, IMO.

That is a good question Arduinna asked, though - I don't know why I care. :LOL I guess I don't, but I do find it interesting.
post #28 of 35
I don't equate body exploration to being sexual, but I guess we all have our own definitions. Someone running a finger up my spine is tingly and pleasureful, but only sexual in a sexual climate. I would say the same for playing with one's privates.

*shrug*
post #29 of 35
Quote:
Don't know how; don't know why. Grateful everyday to G-d for the gift of my sexuality and my absolutely beautiful and wonderful partner and the love between us that made us desire to grow our family. (#2 due at the end of June!) Wouldn't trade it.
Why participate in this thread if that's all you have to say? Why? I see too much of this around here lately. People drop in, say their little "God" this or that and leave. Not very constructive.

Quote:
Where are you finding stereotyping and misinformation?
Well, the OP's "joke" about "An unusual interest in home decorating?" turned me off. Yes, it was a joke. But it's a stereotype. The concept of effeminate bothers me too. How about more nurturing and sensitive than other boys? I was getting the same feeling as Arduinna.
post #30 of 35
Thread Starter 
I'm sorry it turned you off ParisMaman. I meant it to be ironic, as the kind of stereotype I feel this line of thought perpetuates.
post #31 of 35
I know it was meant to be harmless. I can appreciate that it was lighthearted. But somebody asked the question.

I felt a little better about the thread when I read through it a second time. And saw some replies that hadn't been there when I hit the reply button. But when I read it this morning it turned me off, as I said.
post #32 of 35
I was at a UU church in Miami this weekend and saw a wonderful man speak there. He was raised in a fundamentalist Baptist home and his father was a preacher. This guy knew from an early age that he liked men and was told that homosexuals are all child molesters and will get what they deserve and die of aids. This kid did not want to suffer this fate so he ended up going to Jerry Falwell’s Liberty college so he could learn how to “not be gay”. By the way- his parents would not pay for it because Jerry Falwell was too liberal. I heard the nitty gritty of the story and this man has walked and amazing path and I feel honored to have been there and met him. He is trying to educate people about how homosexuals are treated in religious schools and raise money for his cause which helps reach people like him in these schools to let them know that they are not alone, there are others like them. Here is his website if anyone is interested in learning more: http://heartstrong.org/
post #33 of 35
Chfriend wrote:

"Don't know how; don't know why. Grateful everyday to G-d for the gift of my sexuality and my absolutely beautiful and wonderful partner and the love between us that made us desire to grow our family. (#2 due at the end of June!) Wouldn't trade it."

ParisMaman responded:

"Why participate in this thread if that's all you have to say? Why? I see too much of this around here lately. People drop in, say their little "God" this or that and leave. Not very constructive."

And I am humbly asking what the problem is. I thought Chfriend's post was a really sweet and profound personal statement that goes right to the heart of the original question without pretending to answer the unanswerable. So what if she refers to G-d? Does that invalidate what someone (particularly a lesbian mama) has to say in response to the original post?
post #34 of 35
Oh cripes! Did I ever read that wrong! I made a huge assumption - the very kind of thing that drives me nuts!

I am so so sorry!
post #35 of 35
Just a quick check-in..."lurking" from work. I really should put my family information in a sig line...this place is getting too big to keep everybody "straight"

To clarify: I'm a lesbian mama with a 3.5 year old and dp is carrying #2...due at the end of June. We both id as Christians (dp non-denominational and me Roman Catholic). I view sexuality as a gift, a wonderful gift, so spend no time worrying about when it arrived.

FWIW: I've seen no correlation between early childhoond play and later sexual orientation in the folks I know.

Disclaimer: I am unwilling to discuss/debate whether I can be Christian and/or Catholic and gay. I am. If anyone wants more information on this perspective, I'm sure folks can suggest some great books/websites.

ETA: ParisMaman is a great MDCer and I appreciate her sticking up for g/l/b/t folks!
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