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What's Wrong with Strollers? - Page 4

post #61 of 88
amywillo - I don't neccessarily think it is worrisome that your dd does not want to walk long distances yet - she is probably getting plenty of excercise in active play. And if you enjoy going for walks, you are probably modeling healthy, active lifestyle and enjoyment of fitness. When I take dd for a run with me, she does not get a lot of excercise (though I do usually get her out at the end, or when we reach a beautiful spot - a lake, stream, etc- for some exploration time of her own), but I feel I am modeling joy in excercise and joy in getting outside and appreciating our beautiful surroundings. I hope that she learns through that that healthy activity is a normal and valued part of our lives. I am thinking more of the older kids who have always been pushed around and do not want to walk to the end of the driveway to the mailbox, or to the bus stop, or through a big parking lot or shopping center, let alone go for a walk or participate in other forms of excercise, who become the very sedentary older children and adults that are on the rise in the US. I would think that, as a parent, if you have pushed your child everywhere (and I am talking about serious overuse of strollers here, not the moderate use that most of us probably employ!), then you probably will underestimate your child's ability to walk any significant distance later on - they have never done it before, after all, kwim?
post #62 of 88
My two share a double stroller occasionally. They love it because they can interact on the same level. My three year old holds his little sister's hand and pats her on the head, she plays with his shirt. If someone isn't in the mood, she is in the sling, and he can walk. I regularly push an empty stroller around.
post #63 of 88
IMO a child too big to be carried is a child big enough to walk. My son has been doing long walks since 2.5. At 3.5 he can walk at least 3 miles before tiring. If a child is never given the opportunity to walk they won't be able to do long walks. Its like a person who all of a sudden decides to work out an hour every day and they can't do it. if you've been working out an hour every day all along its no big deal to you.
post #64 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly
IMO a child too big to be carried is a child big enough to walk. My son has been doing long walks since 2.5. At 3.5 he can walk at least 3 miles before tiring. If a child is never given the opportunity to walk they won't be able to do long walks. Its like a person who all of a sudden decides to work out an hour every day and they can't do it. if you've been working out an hour every day all along its no big deal to you.
I dunno about that. My DS was big enough to be reeeeaaal tough to carry well before he could walk. He was a big baby. He could walk at 10 months, though (well, he could walk a little at 9 months and better at 10). But at 10 months I couldn't expect him to walk with me to the mall any more than I could expect to carry all 30 lbs of him all the way there.

My kids can walk. Two weeks ago we went on a hike that ended up being longer than expected - the 4yo made it all 5 miles but the 2.5yo only made it about halfway before he spent the rest of the time being passed from person to person, riding on everyone's shoulders. They've both hiked Diamond Head with energy to spare. But that doesn't mean that they've never been in the stroller - far from it. We used to use it often when we were in the mall or on our way to the park or whatever - it was just easier that way when they were both littler. They got plenty of exercise once we got to wherever it was we were going. But while we were walking along the street it was an issue of safety as much as convenience.

Anyway, I'm not making a whole lot of sense. I do agree that if you stroller the kids everywhere they're not just going to get up one day and start walking everywhere like they've been doing it all their lives - but I don't think that taking a long walk with a child in a stroller is all that bad, either. They can sit and enjoy. I know my siblings and I all enjoyed sitting in the running stroller while my mom was training for her marathons, we can't suggest that it is practical to ask a toddler to run along, or that it is bad for a toddler to get to go on that run just because they're in a stroller and not walking themselves.
post #65 of 88
Yeah, I would also have to disagree that you can always expect kids to walk without a problem. Ds walks pretty much everywhere these days, and we rarely use the stroller. But we've run into some hard times with this too. We went on a hike with my dad and sister a few months ago. Didn't bring the stroller or backpack or anything. After about 45 minutes into it, ds was pooped. He kept wanting to be carried. Dh carried him as much as he could, but he was getting tired too (ds is 3yo). I am pregnant, so my carrying him didn't get us very far. It took us a realllllly long time to make it back, and I was starting to lose it. I looked all around and the other parents had brought strollers - some were using them and some weren't, and I'm telling you, I've never wished for a stroller so badly in my life! But we made it.

The only times we really use a stroller is when I am by myself and will be in a busy or dangerous area, and I know that it will be tough to keep ds by my side the whole time. I've never put him in or kept him in a stroller if he was unhappy, but it sure is nice to be able to put him in when we're walking down the busy boulevard with 3 lanes of traffic and buses roaring by. The stress of trying to walk that boulevard with him not in a stroller takes years of my life.
post #66 of 88
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavenly
IMO a child too big to be carried is a child big enough to walk. My son has been doing long walks since 2.5. At 3.5 he can walk at least 3 miles before tiring. If a child is never given the opportunity to walk they won't be able to do long walks. Its like a person who all of a sudden decides to work out an hour every day and they can't do it. if you've been working out an hour every day all along its no big deal to you.
I understand what you are saying but I disagree - my kids are just plain BIG and HEAVY and by the age of 10 months they were heavy enough that I could only handle about an hour slinging and then I would have to put them down or my back would break - especially if they are sleeping. Considering they didn't start walking until a year old there wasn't much choice but to use a stroller sometimes.

My 18 month old loves to walk and he can go quite a distance - but he CAN NOT go 3 miles, he has gone about half of one way on my walk and that's it. And it's certainly not because he doesn't have enough oppurtunities to walk - I take him out walking all the time.
post #67 of 88
When I pick up my son at preschool, he is tired. He could sit in his stroller and relax and drink his milk for 3 blocks, or he could whine for three blocks and it could take a half hour to get home. Or I could take the car three blocks, but I try to avoid that.

I don't feel I have to carry two children everywhere to prove something to anyone. We'd end up doing a lot less.

My son walks, runs, plays, is active and not overweight, and he goes in a stroller sometimes.

I am glad that I have the options of slinging (the baby), walking, biking, scootering (the 3y.o.), or using the stroller.

I wish I never had back pain. I wish my son was never cranky and always willing to walk safely for three miles. My life is not perfect, I guess. Maybe if I just cared enough.......I could make it so.

L.
post #68 of 88
I've always thought that people should tread really gently with the stroller/evil thing. I don't really drive a car - DC is hardly ever strapped into a carseat. I still sling my 2.75 year old child but I also have and use a stroller. More often than not my stroller is used to get groceries home but occasionally DC is happy to relax or sleep in there.
post #69 of 88
I find it a little bizarre, this idea that nobody should ever use a stroller.

If every family were like yours, Heavenly, then maybe there would be no strollers! But not everybody is 24, in reasonably good health and strength, with only two, average-sized children.

As has been pointed out, some folks have enormous babies. Some mamas have rheumatoid arthritis, or lupus, or other disability, or are in their 40's with lots of kids (no offense if anyone is, and still amazon-like in strength) and physically can NOT sling for longer than half an hour or an hour at a time.

Some people have several small children, or 2 babies and 6 school-aged kids, and can't sling everybody under 3 years old at once.

Some babies that are too heavy to carry, are not able to walk as far as their big brothers and sisters, or their mama and daddy. After all, they are not walking at all yet! But they need to be included in family outings, so they ride in a stroller now and then.

As for us, we have several children, and they were all babies at once. When dh was with me, here's what we did: baby #1 walked as much as possible, which was alot, and got in a wagon pulled by daddy when he got tired. Daddy carried #2 in a backpack. I carried #3 in a sling, for half-hour increments. When I had to take a break, baby got in the wagon with big brother, who held him.

When dh was not with me, I used a stroller, and whichever baby needed it, got in.

I have lupus, and extreme joint pain during flares. I also tend to have babies who weigh 11 pounds, and double their birthweight by one month. They are enormous.

My way of coping with these challenges is, to sling them as much as possible for me, at home and away, and to mostly stay home so I can sit and hold the baby since I can't walk and hold him for long. Once a week, I take my crew on a field trip, for an all-day thing like the zoo or hiking. On that day, the baby may not be held as much as he is at home, but he is still cue-fed, interacted with, got out of the stroller every time mama sits down, and never left to cry as he rides. And of course, by night, he'll be tucked in bed with mama like always.

What's wrong with that? What would you have me do? Should I not have children if I can't manage to navigate thru life without them all strapped to me 24/7?

I'm as crunchy as they come, but I'd hate to be so narrow as to believe that everyone is or can be like me.
post #70 of 88
With one child I have only truly needed to use a stroller a handful of times. And even those few times I probably could have gotten by without one, it was more used as a cart to carry other stuff. And we do a fair amount of walks, festivals, and places like amusement parks.

But that is just me and I don't think I am anti-stroller for anyone else. We all have different lifestyles, support, and physical capabilities, and children with different needs. And when people talk about needing a stroller for long walks with 2 and 3 year olds--well, I can bet that most people who seem anti-stroller aren't talking about occasional use for a 2 or 3 year old. I mean, one mama by herself can't be expected to haul one or more kids around all day every day like that. We do eventually meet our limit.

I think the concern is with young babies. So maybe I am a little bit anti-stroller in that I really would not like to have an *awake* baby under the age of 6 months confined in the stroller so far away from its mom and dad. I think babies that little are meant to be held, period. I especially don't understand when both parents are there, and there is a tiny little baby (or even an older baby) strapped into the stroller. One parent can't pick the baby up if the other is tired? And strollers can so definitely be abused in that way. The moms I know, use it all the time. They drive up in their cars, park right in front of the store, and plop the baby in the stroller to shop for quick in and out trips like the video store, drug store etc. But I do think this is because they see it as quick and easy, as opposed to using a baby carrier of some sort. I personally hate having a huge stroller take up my trunk space and would not want to have to deal with hauling the stroller out on every little trip.

And that's the main reason I dislike strollers, is they take up so dang much room! Everywhere we go there are empty strollers clogging up the aisles, the shelter at the park. I know I will feel differently when I have another child and probably will need to use one, but right now I'm glad I don't need the extra bulk everywhere I go.

I do agree that using the stroller all the time for older kids may start to get them into that sedentary type of lifestyle. I didn't even think of that before, but I think it's a valid point.
post #71 of 88
I don't have a problem with a stroller. I really liked mine when I was younger. My little legs would get tired quicker than the grownups, and I liked being able to hop in and out of the stroller at my convenience. I also think the stroller is more convenient in some cases than a sling. And I love slings. I think they're pretty, and they're easy to carry around, since they're a piece of cloth. I plan on getting an umbrella stroller for when I have kids. The things I don't like are those stroller "systems" that have a lil baby bucket, and attatches to wheels, and such. I think those are excessive. Plus, they're HUGE and akward. They're the stroller equivalent of an SUV. :LOL I don't think having a stroller is un-AP, but I think it's in the manner you use them. In general, I think slinging or carrying is the best way to go, but the stroller definitely has it's benefits.

Disclaimer: I haven't read anything but the first page, and I'm not a mom yet, so my opinion is based on hearsay and research, and not on experience (other than my own childhood experience).
post #72 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amywillo
From people who make it a point to say that they don't use a stroller when they are giving the laundry list of AP things they do. I've heard it a number of times through the years.
But why do we have to take these personally? Me?...I see it as something they are proud of, and I'm proud right back at them. If not using a stroller was that important to them, and they succeeded, then good for them!

My friend is nuts about marathons. She has a T-shirt saying "I ran 15k..." blah, blah, blah.

I don't look at it as a criticism of anybody who can't run 15k. I don't see it as an insult against those who don't think running a marathon is "it". I just see it as a pride issue.

I am really proud that my daughter has never drunk a drop of formula, or ever had a bottle. But that does not mean I have any problem with Mums who had to supplement, or those who had to use bottles. It was just something that I set out as a goal for myself, and I'm proud!

I think the main reason I like to tell people "we didn't even own a stroller until DD was 8 months old" is to send a message: you may not NEED one! You'd be surprised how many people think it is impossible to have a newborn and no stroller awaiting the arrival of baby!
post #73 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikirj
Nah, I've had to do this too. Ever had to do this alone? Here's my 2 yr. old and my 4 yr. old on the other side of the metal detector, calmly waiting for mama (the guards weren't even paying attention to them - at all!) - and the #@$(*#$(*& thing malfunctions and they keep holding me up - I swear if my kids had started to walk away I wouldn't care about the stupid guard, I'd be through the checkpoint in a second.
I was just going to say (and a little off topic here) when I took 18 month dd alone in the airport to fly from NC to Indy last year. I had the carseat, my bags and the stroller (in addition to us two) and when I was holding her and walked through the thing it went off cause I wearing overalls and they had me put her down so that could run that scanner thing all over my body, wouldn't let her near me and she was halfway running away and trying to get back to me. I was ticked! luckily, there was someone I knew that just so happened to be in the airport right then and saw me and came over to help....okay, off my little soapbox now
post #74 of 88
I don't have a problem with people being proud of not using a stroller. I didn't use one for a long time with my first - I mostly carried him (he did not like slings most of the time).

I take issue with blanket statements being made, like

"They will never walk anywhere if you use a stroller"

"They will be overweight if you use a stroller"

"If they are in a stroller, you don't care enough to interact with them"

"Kids have a "glazed-over" look in a stroller"

For some kids, a stroller is the only place they will nap - that could account for a glazed look.

If you see someone at random pushing a stroller, and you make those assumptions about them, that's judgemental and wrong. If you make those assumptions about me for using a stroller, I won't be hurt, but I will call you on it. And I will call you on it in defense of mamas with physical disabilities or PPD.

I don't think it is fair to tell moms to not be hurt when people judge our parenting choices, espeicially at a community where moms come to be supported. And for a member to come harsh on moms for using a stroller occasionally, and then post on another thread that she yelled at her kids all day, hmmm.......... I'd rather take my kids for a walk in the stroller and cool off.

L.
post #75 of 88
Quote:
"They will never walk anywhere if you use a stroller"
:

I just did a 5K race w/my 3 year old (38 mos) and he walked/ran the whole darn way while I pushed an empty stroller.

I'm sorry, but I have to when people get so self righteous about strollers.

I walk 2 miles to the zoo near busy roads. Hmmm...should I hold their hands and force them to walk 4 miles just to avoid the perils of the stroller? My kids have a ball in their double.
post #76 of 88
Quote:
. I think of AP stroller-parents as having cheap carefree umbrella strollers. I think of mainstream parents as having those huge strollers (usually double) with fifty compartments, laying-down capabilities, cup holders, diaper bag holders, etc. Of course, I was thinking that this morning and at the museum, my AP friend and her sister were there. Her sister's AP and had the big huge stroller. So my stereotype is probably not based on fact or reality.

Dina
Well - I have the huge double stroller with cupholders now and a big basket underneath. You know what - I like it - we can put the kids sandtoys in the basket to go to the park AND a picnic lunch. And have water bottles in the cupholders easily available while we're out. Instead of my stopping and having to dig water out of some bag. I've got 5 under 5 though - so I'm always babywearing with someone even with that double stroller.

Oh and my kids last year did take turns walking/riding and by the end of last summer my boy (almost 3 at the time) could walk about 3 miles without getting tired and my girl could go 5 sometimes 6 miles. Pre-bedrest twin pregnancy. It'll be a LONG time before any of us can do that again. But I would not want to go for that long of walks without the double stroller AND a backpack or sling with me. Because if they all decide to be "too tired" to walk anymore at the same time far from home with no stroller. It's a BAD situation - bdtd - had to call dh to leave work and come get us. The kids were just too tired to walk home.
post #77 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piglet68
But why do we have to take these personally? Me?...I see it as something they are proud of, and I'm proud right back at them. If not using a stroller was that important to them, and they succeeded, then good for them!
I don't anymore, but for awhile I felt a little prickly when people would go on about how AP they were and they'd include things that I didn't think were really about attachment parenting.

And then, of course, there are stroller bashers out there--people who assume that if you own or use a stroller that you are not a good parent. I haven't seen that happening here at MDC, but I've seen it elsewhere I don't take those things personally anymore either, because I'm happy with my decision.

I think part of the problem is that we assume that certain terms are pejorative or positive and it's all in how we look at it. I remember when there was a poll about how many people had used babysitters, and some respondents were adamant about how they didn't use babysitters even when it was clear that they did. The term babysitter was so negative in their minds that they had to explain that their particular childcare giver wasn't a babysitter.
post #78 of 88
I have a stroller... Its not huge, but it has a basket type thingie at the bottom. I cant sling Noah anymore becuase the sling I have hurts like hell (have looked everywhre for a decent one but to no avail. I can't sew to save my life and I cant afford to buy one on the net - exchange rate sucks..) Im really sad b/c I LOVE slinging and so does Noah...

We dont have a car so I walk EVERYWHERE and the stroller comes in handy b/c I can use the basket to put stuff in that I buy or need (change of clothes, diapers etc). Amber walks with us. She is almost 4 and loves to walk around! Its good exercise for her and she enjoys being able to walk with us. We walk about 6km's everyday so I am glad I can use a stroller but I do wish I had a decent sling so I could carry Noah around more. When we are not walking somewhere, I carry Noah but for the most part we play on the floor (he is learning to crawl and likes it when we all get down to his level)
post #79 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven
I have a stroller... Its not huge, but it has a basket type thingie at the bottom. I cant sling Noah anymore becuase the sling I have hurts like hell (have looked everywhre for a decent one but to no avail. I can't sew to save my life and I cant afford to buy one on the net - exchange rate sucks..) Im really sad b/c I LOVE slinging and so does Noah...
How old is Noah? With my first, I used a bedsheet (twin size) to sling him both in front and on my back. He was pretty light, though. I folded it lengthwise in half, and then in half again, so it was a long, skinny strip of fabric. To carry him on my chest, I would have him facing me, open up the fold so there was a little pocket there for him, but the remaining fabric was still folded twice, but those ends up over my shoulders, cross them across my back, bring them forward around my waist, and tie the ends under his bum. To have him on my back, it was the same, but backwards. I would usually have him sitting on the fabric on the edge of the couch to get him up on my back, tie it up, and then stand up. I tried this with dk#2, but he was bigger enough that it didn't really work. Maybe a queen or king sheet cut in half, so you have the length, but not the extra bulk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikirj
I do agree that if you stroller the kids everywhere
You've coined a new phrase! I like this

Quote:
Originally Posted by playdoh
I can only register to see this if I have a US address, as far as I can tell. I would be much obliged if you could maybe c&p the article into a pm? I know it's against the rules to do the whole article, is it OK in a pm?
post #80 of 88
I PM'd you, brisen. but remember, the east African women haven't had the chance to log on at MDC and receive a lecture about judging women who use strollers!

Quote:
It's not so wonderful. In Africa, we just carry our children or let them roam. They can't sit like lumps," said Wambui, 24. "Besides our roads aren't even good enough for these devices. If everyone had a pram it would cause jam-ups in traffic. Then we would be bad to our children and bad to our roads."
Quote:
Africans consider the traditional method of toting their children the only true version of day care. When it's time for feeding, the food is right there as a mother shifts her child to the front of her body, nestling the infant to her breast.
Quote:
"The pram is the ultimate in pushing the baby away from you," said Frank Njenga, a child psychiatrist in Nairobi, Kenya's bustling capital. "The baby on the back is actually following the mother in warmth and comfort. The baby feels safer, and safer people are happier people."
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