Where do you draw the line?

[MelissaEvans]

I've come to realize how important parenting issues are to me. I understand that different people do different things, but some I disagree with so strongly that I "fade away" from people who practice them. Where are your lines? Which of these would cause you to "drop" someone as a friend?
I think these concepts fit in with the Mothering philosophy, but I know that not all of us fit in with all of them. I just put them in alphabetical order. =)

ABM feeding (non-medical reasons, not educated, didn't try, yada yada yada)
Baby bucket using/abusing (i.e. swings, strollers, bouncy chairs, etc.)
Bigotry
CIO
Circumcising (non-religious, knowingly, yada yada yada)
Crib using
Disposable diapering
Meat eating
Planned medicated birthing (same as ABM feeding)
Spanking
Vaccinating

For me, circ, spanking and CIO are biggies. DS is mimicing, so I can't have him see people spanking - that's not something I want him to do. I'm sure bigotry will come into play when he's more verbal. I intentionally avoid people who use these practices.
ABM, bucket, crib, and planned medicated birth sadden me. I try to show them other ways (especially ABM).
Diapers, meat, and vaccines don't really bother me. MIL watches DS when I'm in the office and she prefers disposables. She loves DS, allows me to go to work, and does it for free. If she wants disposables, she gets 'em! DS has had a a total of 3 vaccine shots ever (5 diseases) and I won't be bringing him back for any more. And we aren't vegan so the meat isn't an issue for me.

[Piglet68]

Well, I'm concerned as to where this thread is going.

Still, I'll bite.

I could care less if someone feeds formula, and it isn't my place to decide whether their reasons were "legitimate" enough to warrent my continuing friendship. Same with pretty much everything on that list.

The only things I would steer away from are spanking (*if* that occurred in front of my child - I have one friend who spanks but she's never done it in front of me) and bigotry (ie. continuously offensive comments). And those not because of how offensive I might find the practices, but because of the potential harm to my child being exposed to such violence or language or hatred.

I prefer hanging out with mom groups where most of the moms are AP, simply b/c I feel more comfortable there. But I would not end a friendship for something as miniscule as sposie using or not slinging.

[gethane]

CIO and bigotry are deal breakers for me.

I'd like to say circ is, but living where I live, I'd have no friends at all, since I'm the only non-circer I've every met IRL.

[HoneymoonBaby]

None of it. The only way I would drop a friend is if I felt she was mindfully neglecting her child. Ignorance is no reason to drop a friend (it's a good excuse to start a conversation, actually), and neither is choosing a different parenting path. If a friend of mine chose to use CIO/spanking/formula/etc. with her child, and the child appeared healthy and well-adjusted, then I would have no problem with that as it's not my decision to make. However, if the child was obviously not thriving -- sick, irritable or otherwise -- and my friend refused to look at her own parenting methods to see if they could be contributing to the problem, then I would have a hard time being around them anymore.

Edited to add that my last sentence applies to AP parents, too. If a child isn't healthy or happy, then the first thing I would hope the parents would do is examine their own parenting methods , regardless of what they are, to see what could be done differently to improve the situation. I'm not pompous enough to think that only "mainstream" parents can screw up their children.

[Rainbow]

I don't have any deal breakers- I think we are given firends and are given to friends to help, support and learn from each other. I don't think I would exclude anyone from my list of friends for anything short of the safety and well being of my own children.

[phathui5]

I don't really conciously drop friends unless something big happens. But CIO and spanking are big deals to me and I have trouble spending time around people that do them.

All of the other things, I would try to gently steer people towards the "other way" if they were open to it. For example:
* offering a pregnant friend info on breastfeeding
* showing people the www.909shot.com site
* letting more people know about slings (the reason I started selling them)

But I wouldn't stop being friends with someone because of one of the other "choices" on there. The reasons that spanking and CIO get to me is that I see them as meanness, physical/emotional abuse... I don't see the other things so much as mean, just uninformed, I guess.

[fyrflymommy]

Originally Posted by HoneymoonBaby

None of it. The only way I would drop a friend is if I felt she was mindfully neglecting her child. Ignorance is no reason to drop a friend (it's a good excuse to start a conversation, actually), and neither is choosing a different parenting path. If a friend of mine chose to use CIO/spanking/formula/etc. with her child, and the child appeared healthy and well-adjusted, then I would have no problem with that as it's not my decision to make. However, if the child was obviously not thriving -- sick, irritable or otherwise -- and my friend refused to look at her own parenting methods to see if they could be contributing to the problem, then I would have a hard time being around them anymore.

ITA. and i probly wouln't stay friends w/ someone that outrighted disrespected my parenting, or was just soooo entirely diff than me that we didn't get along,

[darkstar]

Once upon a time I thought that I would *NEVER* be friends with someone who has such different parenting styles then me. Then my best friend had a baby. WOW, my own best friend ffing becuase "she doesnt want her kid hooked to the boob foreve" her exact quote. Now you have to realize that we were friend long long ago. When Sex, Drugs and Rock-N-Roll were our lives. She had a hospitial birth, vaxed, ff'ed, her dd sleeps in a crib, goes to the babysitters. But**I LOVE HER**And she is my best friend in the whole world. Just becuase we have different parenting styles, doesnt mean that I would ever "drop" her as a friend. Just as I respect her decisions and hope that she respects mine.

[HoneymoonBaby]

Originally Posted by darkstar

Once upon a time I thought that I would *NEVER* be friends with someone who has such different parenting styles then me. Then my best friend had a baby. WOW, my own best friend ffing becuase "she doesnt want her kid hooked to the boob foreve" her exact quote. Now you have to realize that we were friend long long ago. When Sex, Drugs and Rock-N-Roll were our lives. She had a hospitial birth, vaxed, ff'ed, her dd sleeps in a crib, goes to the babysitters. But**I LOVE HER**And she is my best friend in the whole world. Just becuase we have different parenting styles, doesnt mean that I would ever "drop" her as a friend. Just as I respect her decisions and hope that she respects mine.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

There are things that I don't want my children exposed to (like spanking), so I would probably limit friendships with other parents that spanked -- i.e. I would see them at "adult" events and not get together as a family. The same is true with people who are verbally or physically abusive to anyone. Because I want to shield my kids, I probably wouldn't have the whole family over for a BBQ, for example. But I don't think I would eliminate them from my lives. Assuming, of course, that they could be respectful of our differences in these areas and that they didn't drop me!

[Dolphin]

CIO is a HUGE issue with me - I think it's abusive. And although I don't think I would actually cut off all communication with a friend who chose it, I wouldn't really ever feel as close to someone who could do this to a baby. I have a friend, although not a really close one, who declared "I just let her cry for an hour if she had to - she had to realize it was bedtime" about her 6 month old, and I just don't have any respect for her now. FF also really bothers me, but I try to remember that there are circumstances that I might not understand.

[BusyMommy]

I look at the person and their heart. It's not my place to judge b/c I'm certainly not the perfect person and perfect mother.
I'd love to meet such a one, though.

T Stepford Wives is coming out soon! Can't wait...


Back on topic...we just went to dinner w/the macine gun club. : Us little greenie pacifists w/a huge table full of motor head gunfreaks. Heck, my 2 y.o. loves my machine gun, Bubba!
But, you know, I still do like my friend. Even though...

[Messy Nessie]

I don't think I would ever drop a friend for any of the above practices... but in my brief experience as a mama this far, sometimes these things become an inevitable wedge. For example,

We are delaying vaxes until DD is 5 or 6. At that point she will not get all of them, just the ones we feel are necessary. A GOOD friend of mine since childhood had her babe a month before mine, at the beginning we got the babes together frequently to play and visit. At some point we had a conversation about well baby visits and vaxing. It came out in conversation that DD is not vaxed. Well, she began to lecture me about how I was being neglectful and spouted off the usual retoric. I foudn taht very disrespectful. When I triend to explain that every family has to decide whether the risks are worth it to them and make a choice, she said I was being irresponsible. We no longer get our babies together because I simply could not bear to have this conversation over and over again. I was completely willing to accept that she vaxed and it wasn't even an issue for me, but I could not tolerate her intolerance of my decision.

A few other times I have mentioned our sleep problems to other friends I met at the park very casually in conversation, like "Gee, Ness, you look really tired!" and I said, "Well, Jellybean hasn't really learned to sleep so great yet..." I am told things like, "Well thats because you have to let her cry, she'll never learn unless you do that." or "You need to start her on solids" or "Yeah, that's why I never breastfed. Those babies never learn to sleep." ETC ETC ETC! I could go on FOREVER!

Now, I have tried to educate these people. But they don't really listen. They've BTDT and they have the answers. And typically take it as a criticism of what they've chosen b/c indirectly it is. I don't CIO b/c I believe that it is wrong. I breastfeed b/c I think the alternative is horrible. I don't introduce solids early b/c I believe the research that says it is harmful to the baby.

So my other alternative is to stay silent and allow my choices to be chalked up as wrong. That doesn't feel good.

I guess what I am saying is that I am perfectly willing to be friends with people regardless of their choices. I don't lecture and I always try to avoid the touchy subjects like sleep and feeding. But inevitably they come up. And that is when the break usually happens. And someone walks away feeling like they've been criticized and the friendship goes offtrack.

My solution is to try and surround myself with like-minded mamas. (anyone up for a playgroup in Owings Mills, MD?)

[hunnybumm]

I wouldn't drop a friend because her parenting is different than mine. Most of my "friends" spank, swear by CIO, weaned before 1 year, would never consider co-sleeping (but they secretly admit it to me once I comment that DS sleeps with us), and many other anit AP ways. I don't spend a huge amount of time with these people but I do find that if they do things like spank a lot or let their kids scream it is a complete turn off for me wanting to be around them anyways, KWIM?

I have only recently met another AP momma in my area (only met her once) so I really don't have much choice. I would rather my son be around other kids and not sheltered. I will do my best to let my son know what is acceptable and what is not, but he will be exposed to it sooner or later. I would rather him be aware than ignorant (if that's the right word).

[LavenderMae]

If they had already been my friend for along time it would be hard to drop them but there are things that would make me.
I would have a hard time with our friendship if they chose to circ, especially since no doubt I would have given them plenty of info. I would not start up a friendship with someone who circs now (my feelings about RIC are very strong and it could definitely be a deal breaker).
If they CIO I would also have a hard time. I would feel so bad for the baby.
FF feeding would also be hard if they could infact bf and just chose not to.
Spanking/yelling I'm working on myself so I would hope we could be a suport system for eachother and help eachother stop. Vaxing would not make me end a friendshp unless they had real issues with me not vaxing.
Medicated birth hey I wouldn't choose it but it's not my place to decide how a mama gives birth. I have found with an ex friend that me just talking about my unmedicated birth with her made her defensive since she chose to get an epidural, so that can go both ways.
Meat eating used to bother me but it doesn't really anymore. I do wish all meat eaters would only eat free range /organic but I couldn't if I ate meat because of price so I know it isn't always possible.
Bigotry, well I don't want my kids thinking it is okay so that could also be a deal breaker if they said racist/prejudice things around us. It would also just bother me to know they were a bigot. I don't want bigots for friends.

[kate-astrophe]

If I was that picky about my friends, I wouldn't have any. Because most people I know are fairly "mainstream", I make a concious effort to overlook the things I don't agree with (CIO, spanking, premature/forced weaning, stroller/container abuse, paci overuse, ect) and try to see the people and the choices and the issues behind the parenting practices. All of my friends are educated women who think what they are doing was the best choice for them and their child. I may not agree with what they do, but my opinions are just that: opinions. I avoid conversaations about sleep and breastfeeding so I'm not put on the spot, and so I don't have to hear about their CIO "triumph". I have to remember that they think *I'm* wierd, with my LLL membership, vast collection of slings, and supersize famliy bed. I try to be a good example of AP living, they know if they have a question about slinging or bfing, I'm the gal to ask. All of our kids were born around the same time...and they are all thriving. That's what matters.

But at the same time, while I don't limit contact with people who, for example, exclusively ff their kids, I do find that I have less in common with them, and therefore less to talk about, so friendships never get off the ground.

The only deal breaker for me would be someone was blatantly neglectful and unloving of their kids.

-Kate

[LoveBeads]

I wouldn't be friends with anyone who was a bigot whether they had children or not.

I wouldn't have my children around someone who spanks or humiliates their children in our presence.

Other than that, none of them would be deal breakers for me. I guess for me, it's whether someone treats their children that matters to me. I can't bear to be around people who don't show their kids the respect that they would give a complete stranger. But whether they vaccinate, co-sleep or breastfeed doesn't concern me in the least....

[nikirj]

I only draw the line where someone else doesn't respect my parenting decisions. If they are belittling my choices, or make fun of me, or take shots at what I believe in, then FORGET IT. That's not cool. They can be extremely different from me and I don't care, as long as they respect that how I parent my kids is, well, how I parent and isn't open for pot-shots. Of course (disclaimer, disclaimer) if someone is being abusive to their kids I couldn't handle that and wouldn't be around someone like that, but I'm not talking about disciplinary abuse (spanking) I'm talking about abuse of a more purposeful, selfish type.

[darlindeliasmom]

What nikirj said...I don't have some kind of litmus test for parenting, and I know that among my current circle of friends there are women who ff by choice, definitely CIO, LOVE their babysitters, and have never worn a sling. BUT they don't raise their eyebrows (much) in the face of my child-led weaning that went through years of stutter stops to the point that at age 7 I say, I think she's weaned...
OTOH, some long-time friendships just could not bear the weight of the constant disapproval/judgement of my choices...and they slipped away. Maybe some time in the future we will be friends again, but it's too hard when you're in the trenches to have someone question all your choices.

That's why I try not to do it to my friends who differ with me. I wish they had what dd and I share, that's all. If they can get it, or as close as they want to be, without my AP ways, I live and let live...

[wende]

I don't know what ABM feeding is, I assume formula feeding?

None of those are deal breakers for me because in my life I have done every single thing on that list at least once (except maybe bigotry, but I may have even done that) I would be a hypocrite. I would be sad to know that someone was judging me based soley on those things. My kids are well adjusted, good kids. However, if I felt like someone was a bad parent, whether they were (claimed to be) AP or not THAT would be a deal breaker.