Interfering with others' CIO

[chapulina]

Sorry I couldn't think of a better title for my question, but here's some clarification: we know some people in our church who let there children CIO while at church (if you can you believe it) - because it's time for their nap, etc..etc.

My dh just goes nuts about this; he can't stand a baby put alone in a dark room (this would be the nursery), crying. To be clear, I also go nuts about this too, but my husband will actually go in to comfort the baby, even take them out of the crib, hold, rock, whatever.

My question is, what are your thoughts on this: the parents get pretty upset about this (he's missing his nap) and I know it is interfering with their parenting, but it is maddening to hear a baby crying alone and it just compells us to respond in some way. For sure this is different because we're in a public place .

I'll be interested to hear what you Mothering mothers think on this. thanks!

[ja mama]

I'm afraid to answer. I think your dh is making that little babies life harder. If it cries itself to sleep at home, but occassionally someone responds (your dh), it will just cry harder for the parents trying to get them to respond next time. Only they won't. (I say it makes it harder for the baby, but I am not at all sure I could listen to the baby and not do something) I guess it sounds like I'm advocating more neglect. How old is the baby? The smaller the baby, the less tolerance I'd have in going along with the parents.
As an option could he just not ever put the baby in the dark room alone and give it cues that it was sleep time. Could he just rock it the entire time and try to comfort it without laying it down? Could he go get them and tell them their baby is crying and they need to nurse it or calm it down... Can he pretend it's crying is disrupting the other kids... Talk up how much cio just doesn't work, slip articles into their diaper bag...

[mocha09]

I agree with Ja Mama. As terrible as it sounds, I think that it may, in the end, make it harder on the baby. That is so sad. I also could not tolerate the crying, and your husband's actions convey what a gentle and caring soul he must be.

I agree with telling the parents something like, "You're baby is crying, could you come and get him/her?" and leave it at that. If they explain that they let him cry, I might say, "I understand that's what you do at home, but it's really disrupting the other kids and caregivers. I'm sorry. I know how hard it is with a babe and sleep."

And then, maybe loan them the "No Cry Sleep Solution," or other articles. I wouldn't sneak them in. That may elicit a negative response, and It hink they may be less likely to take it to heart. Instead, maybe build a converstaion of how hard it was to get your kids to sleep, and you worked really hard to find a gentle solution, etc., and then give them some books articles, that you said saved you in your situation, something like that.

[chapulina]

a little more clarification: 4 mon. and 10 mon. are the ages

the moms put the babies in the nursery playpen, turn off the lights and close the door - there is no one else in the room.

usually there are other adults and children mingling around in the hall, sancutary, etc.

my dh is not involved in nursery duty


..maybe my question is something like what is a good way to handle this very uncomfortable and upsetting social situation. as you might imagine, the moms are somewhat into babywise philosophy

[Piglet68]

well, if it was being done in a location where it was affecting you....like are you guys in a nursery that is next to this room? then you could simply say to the director that the crying is annoying, disrupting, and disturbing to your children. approach it as a sort of "noise complaint" issue, rather than criticizing their parenting.

personally, I would find it very upsetting for me and my children and would complain based solely on that. say if they want to let their children bawl for ages alone, to do it somewhere that they aren't disturbing others.

[Sofiamomma]

Personally, I don't think you should do or say anything to them other than to live what you believe. "Be the change you wish to see in the world." Maybe you could talk about how you handle sleep with your kiddos, or if yours are little demonstrate. Or you could mention the article in Mothering about how it affects their physiology. Or you can try to express genuine interest in their philosophy and wonder if it bothers them to hear baby cry, particularly the 4 month old. Other than that, though, I think it would just make them angry and/or defensive. Also, there may be extenuating circumstances you don't know about.

[Greaseball]

That nursery doesn't sound legal. Babies are not supposed to be left alone in a room. Are churches not held to any standards when it comes to child care?

I think your dh is doing a good thing! He's stepping in all he can to help a child who is being ABUSED. Just because a child has to go home to more abuse doesn't mean it's bad to have someone in their lives who won't abuse them.

[Heavenly]

That happened at my church today! I stay in the nursery with Olivia because she is not ready to be left alone and I respect that. Anyways there is a bigger play area and then a small area that has a window you can see through (its a different room but attached) where there are cribs. I heard a baby (5 months) crying and crying and I thought the mom was in there with her. It was about 10 minutes and then the mom popped her head in and said oh good she's asleep. She even made a joke about it. Someone said we'll come get you if she cries and she said oh I'll her when she gets upset enough, she screams really loud. Nice huh? Personally I don't know what I would do. I really have no idea. On one hand its their child, on the other I feel its abuse.

[Profmom]

Apart from all cio issues, I think I would be pretty freaked out if I had left my baby in the nursery and found someone *not* officially related to the child care at the church picking him/her up. Just my .2. But I would never have left either of my babies at a Church nursery alone in a room...

[Raven]

Originally Posted by Greaseball

That nursery doesn't sound legal. Babies are not supposed to be left alone in a room. Are churches not held to any standards when it comes to child care?

I think your dh is doing a good thing! He's stepping in all he can to help a child who is being ABUSED. Just because a child has to go home to more abuse doesn't mean it's bad to have someone in their lives who won't abuse them.

ITA! Its wrong....

can you or dh ask to "work" in the nursery?

[phathui5]

In every church nursery I've been to, there's been a 10-minute cry policy. (The babies are, of course, being held while they're crying) If a baby doesn't calm down within the ten minutes, the parent has to come get them, no question. Babies that won't stop crying freak the other kids out.

[Evergreen]

I was going to post exactly what Greaseball said! Speak to someone in charge of the church (or church nursery) and if nothing is resolved, to the parents.

I would probably call Social Services.

[Ms.Doula]

Originally Posted by phathui5

In every church nursery I've been to, there's been a 10-minute cry policy. (The babies are, of course, being held while they're crying) If a baby doesn't calm down within the ten minutes, the parent has to come get them, no question. Babies that won't stop crying freak the other kids out.

ME TOO!!!

And I would speak to a woman somewhat involved in ministry (Preferably another kind mother) and ask her for Godly advice on what to say to the parents, in this situation. but I would definatly say something to someone......

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I hate to say this too, but I would so worry for your husband with this situation. Imagine if this baby's ped. says something like "gee, she has a rash, has someone been touching her?" All of a sudden your husband could be accused of child molestation just because he was being nice. Even in a small church this sort of situation can happen really fast. As much as I hate to say it, he shouldn't be doing this without another adult in the room for his own protection.

Which leaves what to do about the children? I second the recommendation that you discuss the situation with the pastor, assuming that she/he doesn't advocate Ezzo or something. I would also handle if as "the noise upsets me/my children" rather than a criticism of their parenting choices.

Good luck.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Profmom

Apart from all cio issues, I think I would be pretty freaked out if I had left my baby in the nursery and found someone *not* officially related to the child care at the church picking him/her up. Just my .2. But I would never have left either of my babies at a Church nursery alone in a room...

yes but since you feel this way I doubt you would leave your tiny baby in a room alone wihtout adult supervision. I really find this more appauling than the crying. Gees if you don't want strangers messing with your babies makes sure someone is supervising.

I knowe people who do this though and it drives me crazy. I will not put my child in the nursery while a baby is being left to scream (and I tell them why) nor will i allow a baby to cry for more than 2 or 3 minutes while i am working nursery. and nevr if we don't have enough arms to hold one more sad baby./ I will tell parents they need to keep thier baby with them. It is disruptive in nurseries to have babies crying. it freaks out the other kids and sets a whole tone of saddness.

[noodle4u]

Kuddos to your husband!
You guys are great for wanting to help those babies.

[mamaduck]

I think there needs to be an official "policy" in place about crying babies. Something like, "If crying babies can't be settled within 10 minutes, parents will be asked to come get them." A church nursery is a terrible place for this to be happening (okay, anyplace is a terrible place.) It can make life miserable for the children and caregivers, and anyone else nearby.

This was a little different, but I used to babysit for a friend who would ask me to let her babies CIO at naptime, and I told her flat out that I couldn't do that. It was so sad though, because I couldn't comfort or rock them either. They just didn't seem to know how to do that after months of falling asleep crying everytime.

[Greaseball]

Gees if you don't want strangers messing with your babies makes sure someone is supervising.

That's another disturbing thought...they are unsupervised, so anyone could come in and really mess with them, or even steal one!

[Alvenchrst]

Maybe I could give a little insite that I asume noe of you would have.

We let our son fuss for only a few minutes before nap time (ducking the tomatos) and my hubby is a pastor so obviously we use the church nursery.

So hear is what I have to add from my perspective:
Even though we used a moderate form of cio I rarely let ds do it in a public place like the nursery, or around someone else who was disturbed by it out of respect for them.

All the nursery workers at our church have been very supportive of my parenting practices and patient with the cloth diapers, and it has made a world of difference as a new parent. A good friend of mine who also goes to our church cosleeps and doesn't let her son cio has actually gotten some criticsm for being so attched to her son and not putting him in the nursery. I quickly told those peop-le not to judge and explained that she did the things she did because she obviously loves her kids and cares about them.

Regardless of specific parenting practices, at church of all places ( even though sadly this is not always the case) I would expect people to be loving and tolerent. My advice to you and your hubby would be to address the issue if the noise truely is a problem, but if it is truely a differnce in parenting, just use that time to pray that God would give you wisdom to understand those that do things differently and give you the strenght to endure it.

One last note. Even though you are certainly entiled to your own opinions, having been abused as a child, I know what abuse is and crying for 10 minutes before a nap certainly does not qualify. I agree that the child sould be suppervised during this time, but if you call social services soley because people are letting their children cry before a nap, they will just laugh at you.

[Evergreen]

Originally Posted by Alvenchrst

I agree that the child sould be suppervised during this time, but if you call social services soley because people are letting their children cry before a nap, they will just laugh at you.

Yes, I didn't mean cry-it-out is reason enough to call Social Services but leaving a child screaming in a dark room in a public place certainly constitutes neglect. Maybe your pastor or other figure in charge could just put up a sign saying "No attendant on duty, Parents, please supervise your children at all times." You would think they would at least do it for liability reasons.