I feel so betrayed - am I overreacting?

[oceanbaby]

Ds came down with a high fever yesterday evening, kind of out of the blue. He was a little lethargic and clingy, but we laid down in bed and he fell asleep.

He was waking up a lot during the night (sleeping next to me), but was not whiny or miserable at all. He was totally burning up, very hot, but he was almost kind of happy, maybe even a little fever delirium - talking about random stuff, etc. At 3am when he woke up, I noticed that his fever was going down a bit. I was so happy that it seemed like I was finally going to be able to just let his fever run it's course without him being too miserable. At around 4am, he asked to go sleep with dh, who was sleeping in ds's bed (in our room) so that ds and I would have more room.

I woke up at 8am, ds was asleep next to me. Pretty much no fever left, just snoozing away. Dh was already up. I asked him how things had gone when ds had gone to his bed, and dh tells me that at about 5am, dh got up, crushed up some ADULT tylenol into some water, and gave ds a sip.

I was floored. He KNOWS how I feel about treating a fever. In fact, we tend to argue about this every time ds has a fever. My stance is that unless ds is miserable - whining, clingy, lethargic, and downright unhappy - that fevers must be allowed to run their course and burn out the infection. Dh is a little more medicine happy, and thinks that I am being mean by not giving medicine.

Not only that, but we have a pantry full of child medicine (even though I don't use medicines that much, I usually buy a lot while freaking out when ds gets sick). We have maybe 3 different kinds of child fever reducers - tylenol and motrin, I know we have. I asked dh why he didn't use that, and he said he didn't think of it.

Okay, first of all, how the hell do you give a 3yo medicine and not have it occur to you to use child medicine?

Secondly, he KNOWS how I feel about this! How could he do that without checking with me first. I feel like crying I am so hurt.

Oops ds is awake, gotta go.

[nikirj]

IMO, you are NOT over-reacting. I would be LIVID!!!! Where does he get off doing that?!?! He knows your opinion and on top of that - what he did was DANGEROUS - he doesn't even know what dose he gave your child for cryin' out loud (and yes, tylenol IS TOXIC in sufficient doses!). Even if you didn't have the opinion that fevers should be worked through unless the child is miserable (my opinion as well BTW), he SHOULD NOT HAVE GIVEN ADULT TYLENOL!!! HOW IRRESPONSIBLE!!!!

OK, rant over, breathing....mad for you....

I'd get him some literature about how bringing down a fever makes an illness last longer (our bodies produce a fever reaction because the ideal temperature for the bacteria/viruses that cause infections is usually the same as normal body temperature, and by bringing up the temperature of the body, you are actually making the bacteria/virus work and reproduce more slowly, making things more manageable for your own immune system).

[Breathless Wonder]

Wow!

My DH would have gotten an earful, and maybe a foot up his butt!
That is just unacceptable!

Here is something I put together for my grandmother, who was HORRIFIED that I don't give my kids Tylenol at the first sign of a fever. It is geared more towards adults, but the links under the quotes have info on children's fevers.


If you don't know why you have a fever, it's best not to try to lower your temperature. This may only mask your symptoms and make it harder to determine the cause. In addition, some experts think that aggressively treating all fevers actually interferes with your body's immune response. That's because the viruses that cause colds and other respiratory infections thrive at cool temperatures. By producing a low-grade fever your body may actually be helping eliminate the virus. What's more, most fevers go away in a relatively short time — usually within a few days. http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm...D0FF7F5B318E3E

For adults
Call your doctor about a fever if:

* Your temperature is more than 104 F
* Your temperature has been higher than 101 F for more than three days
* You have a temperature of 100.5 F for three weeks or more, but no other symptoms

In addition, call your doctor immediately if any of these signs and symptoms accompany a fever:

* A severe headache
* Severe swelling of your throat
* Unusual skin rash
* Unusual eye sensitivity to bright light
* Significant stiff neck and pain when you bend your head forward
* Mental confusion
* Persistent vomiting
* Difficulty breathing
* Extreme listlessness or irritability
* Abdominal pain or pain when urinating
* Any other unexplained symptoms http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm...E3E&dsection=4

THIS WHOLE PAGE is worth a full read.

http://evans.amedd.army.mil/Peds/fever.htm The Truth About Fever

* Fever is not harmful.
* Indeed, when we are ill, fever is a natural and useful part of the body’s attempt to combat the illness. As such, some fever is a good thing when we are ill! Fever will not rise out of control if left untreated.
* The body has a built-in limit on how high fever can rise; for most people, that limit is about 106 oF. While this sounds high, many people (children especially) have fevers in this range with no ill-effects. The degree of temperature on the thermometer does not correlate with the seriousness of the illness.
* Children with life-threatening illness may present with only a low-grade fever, or none at all! Conversely, children with common viral illnesses can have very high fevers, occasionally even over 105oF. Other symptoms and behaviors must be used to determine whether or not an illness is serious. These include observations of the child’s alertness and level of activity, their ability and willingness to take fluids, and other objective signs such as diarrhea, vomiting, runny nose, cough, and so forth. The thermometer, by itself, should not be the basis for either panic or reassurance. Fever does not cause brain damage.
* If it did, we would all have brain damage, because we have all had fever! Fever is sometimes (2-5%) associated with brief seizures in children between 6 months and 6 years of age. These seizures alarm parents but do no harm, and do not lead to epilepsy. Some researchers believe that these seizures occur due to a rapid change in body temperature, and are not due to a high fever per se. Thus, there is at least one reason to avoid rapidly lowering a child’s temperature during a fever. Sponge bathing is not a useful tool to treat fever.
For many reasons, sponge bathing should not be used to treat fever. For one thing, sponge baths are uncomfortable. More importantly, sponge baths do not change the setting of the brain thermostat, so fever treated in this way is likely to return after the sponge bath.


I know you have expressed concern in the past about not treating fevers, because of your friend from childhood.

Here is some info on Febrile seizures (Seizures that are caused by rapid changes in body temperature):
By treating a fever agressively, you can actually CAUSE a febrile seizure.

Although febrile seizures may cause great fear and concern for parents, most febrile seizures produce no lasting effects. Simple febrile seizures don't cause brain damage, mental retardation or learning disabilities, and they don't mean your child has a more serious underlying disorder, such as epilepsy. http://www.mayoclinic.com/invoke.cfm...E4A&dsection=7
Fevers under 101 degrees Fahrenheit (38.3 degrees Celsius) generally do not need to be treated unless your child is uncomfortable or has a history of febrile convulsions. Even higher temperatures are not in themselves dangerous or significant unless your child has a history of convulsions or a chronic disease. http://www.medem.com/MedLB/article_d...DC&sub_cat=108
Risk factors for febrile seizure:
In a study by Bethune et al the absolute risk that a child with certain characteristics would have a first febrile seizure was calculated, and five simple factors were independently predictive:

* · A first-degree relative (parent or sibling) with febrile seizures
* · A second-degree relative (uncle, aunt, grandparent) with febrile seizures
* · Slow psychomotor development, as judged by parents
* · Delayed neonatal discharge (>28days)
* · Attendance at day care


If a child had two or more of these factors, the risk of having a first febrile seizure was calculated to be about 30%. Since only about 4% of children in the general population will have two or more of these factors, it becomes feasible to target anticipatory guidance to this small group of parents. http://home.coqui.net/myrna/febsrz.htm
What makes a child prone to recurrent febrile seizures?

A few factors appear to boost a child's risk of having recurrent febrile seizures, including young age (less than 15 months) during the first seizure, frequent fevers, and having immediate family members with a history of febrile seizures. If the seizure occurs soon after a fever has begun or when the temperature is relatively low, the risk of recurrence is higher. A long initial febrile seizure does not substantially boost the risk of recurrent febrile seizures, either brief or long. http://www.ninds.nih.gov/health_and_...e_seizures.htm

I'm not going to bombard you with the potential problems and side effects of the various fever reducing drugs. If you are really interested, read the FULL package insert.

Here are just two on acetaminophen:
http://health.yahoo.com/health/drug/202001/precaution
http://www.pharmacyhealth.net/d/acetaminophen-1536.htm

That doesn't include other fever reducing drugs (Motrin, Aleve, etc.).
A brief overview can be found here:
http://www.med.miami.edu/patients/gl...10537#4whatare

There are still more issues surrounding the use of antipyretics that I have NOT included here. This is only the tip of the ice berg. There are SO MANY studies out there, and so much research that is currently being done, and so much more to do.

[jeca]

Even if you were okay with giving your child medicine he should know adult medicine is the wrong choice. Yes, he was wrong and it's okay for you to be mad about it. In the same token what a sweet dad to try to make his baby feel better.

[Quirky]

Oh, I'd be beyond pissed and into full-blown rage territory - not so much at the giving of Tylenol overall (although ITA that you should let fevers run their course, I have given my ds Motrin after a long day of fever to help him get some rest) but at the utter recklessness and foolishness of dosing him with adult Tylenol.

I personally would pick my battles on this one - meaning I'd get dh to understand why what he did was DANGEROUS, then at a later time when ds isn't sick and everyone is calm and happy give him Breathless Wonder's awesome email to read and digest and then the two of you discuss and come up with a plan for future fevers.

Hope your ds feels better soon! Mine developed a yucky cough and woke in the middle of the night with a high fever and vomitting. I've held off giving him anything except Vitamin C, but it's so rough when they're sick!

[oceanbaby]

Okay, I've given him my speech (I had already done that before my OP - I was soooo pissed). I am still in shock. This is what he had to say:

He only gave him 1/3 of an adult tylenol, and ds only took one sip of the water. Fine, good. But I still just can't comprehend how it didn't occur to him to use children's tylenol. He said he remembers his mom using adult tylenol and mixing it with water. Okay, but we all know his mom is not a fountain of medical knowledge to begin with. But, he remembers that, but he doesn't remember all the hassle we've gone through in the past 3 years about going to the store to get children's tylenol, calling the doctor to figure out the right dose, all the drippy gooey mess from ds spitting it back out, and all the arguments we've had over whether to give it in the first place? I find it mindboggling that none of that occurs to him when faced with the situation.

He says he didn't really think about what I'd think about it. Okay, again, how could this not occur to him? It is seriously the biggest issue whenever ds gets sick - I want to go as far as possible without meds, and dh wants to give them. I usually do end up giving a little when/if ds gets really miserable. Dh thinks that at night we should always give tylenol so they can sleep. I do this maybe half of the time.

Anyway, I've over being so angry, but I still feel shocked and betrayed. And a little frightened that this is the kind of decision that dh made on his own. It makes me think that maybe I can't trust him to make medical decisions should I not be reachable for some reason.

[hunnybumm]

I just wanted to say thank you for posting this. I was totaly unaware of the reason for a fever. I have always just given Tylonel because I thought he wasn't suppost to have a fever. I feel bad but now I know that I don't have to give Tylonel unless DS is misrable.

[Breathless Wonder]

It makes me think that maybe I can't trust him to make medical decisions should I not be reachable for some reason.

I hear you on that, and I know it's not a comfortable place to be.

I get pretty frustrated with my own DH, because I feel like I spend a lot of time trying to make the best decisions for my children. I do all of the research, put in all of the effort, and then my DH first uses me like Cliff Notes, instead of reading the articles I send him for himself. Then he makes mistakes, bad decsions, or doesn't follow through/ stand up for the children to naysayers because he didn't invest all of that time and energy, so it doesn't really MEAN as much to him.

I hope you have better luck getting through to your DH.

[Sustainer]

You're not overreacting. I would be pissed!

At the same time, though, try not to worry about your son. I'm sure he'll be okay.

[Jish]

Using adult tylenol was irresponsible on his behalf, there is no question about that. However, crushing it up and putting it in water seems sort of foolish. Chances are that most of the tylenol sank to the bottom of the glass, and all your dc got was plain old water as he took a sip from the top of the glass. I'm guessing that the fever took care of itself in the long run anyway.

However, I do think that you should tread carefully as to how angry you get about him trying to make his child more comfortable to sleep by administering a medication (though it should have been a children's medication ). You should both share in the decision making. He was making a decision that he felt was best for his child and one that 99% of the population likely would have made. If it were me, I would likely discuss the reasons not to medicate, but I don't think it is a reason to be angry at him. The adult tylenol -- I would be angry about that, but not that he treated a fever. As parents we should share in the decision making. Things can get tough when one parent feels that the other constantly trumps their decisions.

[oceanbaby]

As parents we should share in the decision making. Things can get tough when one parent feels that the other constantly trumps their decisions.

You know, I was actually thinking about starting a separate thread about this.

I find it really difficult to know which things to let go of and let dh do his way (after all, he is just as much ds's parent as I am, and he's a damn good one at that), and which ones to fight for and stand my ground on.

And I have to say that my dh would say that he thinks I am often the one making all the decisions. In fairness, it's usually because I am a freak about researching options and talking to the doctors and doing all the legwork, so when it comes time to make a decision, I feel like I have more to base my opinion on than he does. Plus, I tend to be more passionate about my opinions. But he feels that just because he's not a research freak like I am that it doesn't mean that his opinion is invalid. And I see his point.

I think I will start a new thread about this later on, because I'm interested to see where other people draw the line on what is a non-negotiable and what isn't.

[lorijds]

Right on Jish!

He is the parent, too. I don't always make the best decisions when my kids are sick and it is the middle of the night.

I would be frustrated, but not livid. Certainly a point to discuss; but to berate someone over? Nah, not worth it.

It sounds like he actually used fairly good judgement. Only a small amount of tylenol, crushed it up (like his mom did; habits from our childhood die hard), and the result was that your child was sleeping comfortably. If I did that, resulting in my child sleeping well for the first time in a while, and then my dh went ballistic on me, well, I'd be a bit pissed on my part.

Everyone has their own thoughts on this, I know. If my kids are feverish, no motrin. If my kids are uncomfortable, or the fever is above 103, I medicate. I don't think the fever is that helpful if my kids are so stressed otherwise that they aren't getting enough sleep and fluids. That seems counter productive to me.

Absolutely discuss this. But remember, he is a parent as well. He has the right to some input in this.

Also, does he ever get to give the medication,w hen you do choose to medicate? My dh doesn't even know where the kids' medication is, or the dosage, or how to give it, or which one the kids prefer; because I am the one who always gives it. If this is the situation, maybe he was more comfortable crushing up an adult tylenol (which remember, he is familiar with from his youth) than trying to figure out which is better, tylenol or motrin, dosage, flavor, etc.

I hope you get it worked out!

Lori

[Piglet68]

When I'm in a situation like this, I find the best course of action is to sit down and discuss it in a "problem solving" manner. Validate his feelings and his actions: if you calmly point out the potential problems, any thinking feeling parent will understand within themselves that maybe that wasn't the best thing to do. It comes alot easier from within than from a spouse. Then, calmly discuss a "plan of action". A series of steps that can be agreed upon and remembered (or write them down somewhere) so that when the situation happens again, you'll both know what the arrangement is.

[L.J.]

Just to add to what Piglet was saying.....

It sounds like in a couple weeks, when the tension has gone, it would be a great time to sit down and discuss medical strategies etc. I think that he was just doing what he felt best in the situation.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

You know, I don't make the best decisions at 4 AM and nursing a sick kid either, so I have a pretty high amount of sympathy for your DH here. Yes, I agree that adult tylanol was a bad choice. But it was early morning, he knew you were worn out so he decided not to wake you up but let you sleep, and he was doing what he thought was best for a child that BOTH of you are equally responsible for. Sounds like time for a discussion on medical choices, and maybe time to make sure the children's medications will fall on this toes the next time he is doing this, but other than that, I don't think its worth getting angry over.

[Ione]

My DH was a bit of an "over reactor"/"over medicator" for fever at first... (not that I'm against treating fever, but he took it waaay too far, plus always wanted to do something stupid like bundle DD up when she had a fever)...

Luckily for us, our ped. is on the same page as me regarding treating (or not) fevers and I had her write a rxn/guidelines on how/when to treat fevers on one visit for an ear infection. (I was there without DH but she wrote it as part of the regular rxn so DH didn't feel targeted (and still doesn't know I asked her to do that).)

If your ped. is on the same page as you, could you have him/her write a "fever perscription guideline" (the next time your DS is sick or at the next well baby visit if you do them) that you could give to DH?

[Korwynne]

I agree with discussing it in a week or two once things have calmed down.

DH is a part of parenting decisions as well.. or he should be.

We came to the decision together that it was perfectly find for me to not medicated during the day (I do if they're absolutely miserable, but not just simply because there is a fever) but that if they're having a horrible time sleeping due to fever/pain/illness, we'll medicate at bedtime. (although of course not adult meds! ) My thought is that even though fever is the bodys way of working through stuff, sleep is a necessary componant of getting rid of illness as well - and so if I have to medicate to help them sleep, I'll do so...

maybe you could come up with when it's okay/when it's not type guidelines like we did? Then again, I don't require DH to clear it with me.. if he thinks they're at a point where they need meds, he knows all he has to do is tell me he gave them to them (so that if I reach the same conclusion, they're not getting overmedicated) I think he's medicated them maybe twice in the almost 3 years we've been parents... and one of those times I was in the hospital having Josh and Lindsey was ill...

[eilonwy]

I think I'd be pretty ticked off too. Of course, Mike would have tried to wake me up at 4 am rather than just act without a clue... in fact, he's done it. I've worked hard to get him to take more initiative with Eli. "You're his father, hon, you get to make some of these decisions too. If I disagree, I'll tell you why but if it's probably not gonna hurt him, go right ahead. You have just as much right to take him for a walk as I do." and so on.

[Sustainer]

I'm not going to be popular for saying this, but I think a mother should have the final say when it comes to her children.

[nikirj]

!

I'm inclined to think that her well-researched and thought-out opinion should trump his knee-jerk reaction. Sure he is a parent too but if he isn't willing to think through his decisions, he is giving up some of his credibility, kwim?

And yes, I would still be very mad. Regardless of his intentions what he did was DANGEROUS - you don't mess around with even OTC medications - if you don't know what you're giving to the kid, you DON'T GIVE IT! My DH makes a lot of parenting choices in my absence - in your DH's position, he would have woken me and asked me the dosage, and I would have trusted his judgement call that it was necessary at the time and told him what the dosage was, letting him deal with the rest of it. It isn't that I'm saying that the DH has no right to make decisions, I'm just saying that if he is so clueless he should ASK for cryin' out loud. It is irresponsible to do otherwise.