I feel so betrayed - am I overreacting? - Page 2

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by SBF

I'm not going to be popular for saying this, but I think a mother should have the final say when it comes to her children.

Why? They aren't HER children, they are THEIR children. In most cases, there are two people who are equal parents. (OK, not speaking about single parents here). Does being female make me a better parent? There really isn't anything about being female that automatically makes me better at general parenting. There are some things I'm better at, like breastfeeding. And for really young infants, mommy is probaby the better "soother" because of breastfeeding. But making medical decisions? Why should I be better than my husband? Now, all of that assumes that the father is taking an equal interest in the child and is a partner in parenting and not just a "once in a while" participant. But if those aren't true, then I'm better qualified because of my interest and/or experience, not my genetic makeup.

[Irishmommy]

I've only read a few responses, but yes I think you are overreacting. It was 5 a.m., dh was parenting HIS child, unless tylenol has changed and now dissolves instantly on contact with water, then ds didn't exactly get much, if any of it.

Your dh has as much right to parent your (plural) child as you do. I get tired of hearing posts about how little some partners do with childrearing, and then other posts about how bad the partners are 'cos they don't do everything the mom does. They can't win.

[oceanbaby]

They can't win.

I know, and I am guilty of this. Dh is super involved in everything, and definitely does as much around here as I do. It just felt so strange to know that while I slept someone was giving ds medication, even though it was dh. To be honest, I was not exactly angry about the adult Tylenl, I was more shocked and freaked and puzzled about that - dh is a smart guy, has been involved every other time we have done infant tylenol, and for him to say it didn't occur to him, well, I just can't wrap my head around that. The betrayal feeling came from the total helplessness of knowing that something medical had happened to my baby and I had no clue. I guess maybe it's a control issue or something that I need to examine.

I feel that I am 'right' in my opinion about when to medicate, and I think that dh is too quick to medicate. But I'm sure he feels 'right' in his opinion too. I guess the gray area is who gets to decide when. I always felt like medical issues were an area in which I just couldn't compromise, but maybe that's something I need to address again with dh so we can come to an agreement.

This was all compounded by the fact that I layed there at 3am thinking "wow, I'm so happy that his fever is going down, and that we are going to get through this without medication." I was just so darned pleased about that, and then compounded with the very unsettling feeling of medical things happening with ds while I am totally oblivious - well, it just really threw me for a loop.

[Sustainer]

I think I have more of a right to a child who I grew inside of my body, birthed, and now breastfeed. Parenting rights shouldn't suddenly become 50/50 just because science has found a way to determine paternity. It was only recently in human history that it was discovered that there is even such a thing as a father. Nature has determined that children are a woman's domain. We have stronger bonds, stronger instincts, and I could actually go on and on about this but I won't because everyone disagrees with me. In my family, though, my children are MY children, and my partner agrees with this.

[PurpleBasil]

SBF, I agree with what you've written here!

And to answer the OP question: I do not think you overeacted.

We should not be responsible for shifting the balance to equal in these situations. Just because there are women out there complaining that their husbands don't do enough, and other women complaining that their husbands efforts are wrong, doesn't mean we moms have to repair that when our husbands mess up. As if we could anyway. That's a burden one should never take on.

It is always better to live in the situation than look outside and see what kind of inequalities are going on out there for other couples! If you are 'tired' of reading posts about husbands (from women here at MDC), Irishmommy, that has zero to do with the OP.

[PurpleBasil]

Originally Posted by oceanbaby

The betrayal feeling came from the total helplessness of knowing that something medical had happened to my baby and I had no clue. I guess maybe it's a control issue or something that I need to examine.

IMO, there is nothing more to examine and this isn't a 'control issue'. I'd be careful not to make yourself the wrong one in this situation. I think what your husband did was way out of line. Doesn't mean he should be punished but your feelings of betrayal are valid. I don't think you're being fair to yourself when you talk about your feelings like they need to change and then you will somehow feel better or understand your DH's thinking on this.

Glad your son is okay. I'd be livid if my DH did this. This is an issue that must be discussed before hand or in the moment, not an assumption. This is your son's biochemistry and that isn't a 'gray' area. I would hope any parent would talk with (I didn't say 'ask') their partner before administering medication.

[oceanbaby]

I guess control wasn't the right word, maybe exclusivity issues? I definitely don't feel like this was my fault at all, but I do have to admit that I feel like no one can look out for ds like I can. And in general that's not fair to dh.

[pageta]

I read this thread yesterday, and last night as I was up with ds who wouldn't go to sleep because his teeth were bothering him, I thought about this post. Here's how I see it (as someone who didn't own baby tylenol until ds was over 10 months old because I too am very anti-medication). Your dh is the one who was up with the grumpy kid in the middle of the night so it's his call on whether the kid needs meds. Should he have given children's tylenol rather than adult meds in water? Probably yes. But in the middle of the night when you have a grumpy child and you're so tired, it's hard to think straight. He did what he thought of first. If you feel so strongly about whether your child has medication, then you should be the one to get up with the child in the middle of the night. I say that, not in judgement, but as the standard I would set for myself if I was in your shoes. Had it happened to me, I would be mad at myself for not being up with the child myself; otherwise I would accept how someone else chose to parent in the middle of the night when they were so tired they thought they could fall over from exhuastion. If I don't do something myself, then I have to accept how others choose to do things even if it isn't how I would do it. As the one who sets the highest standards around here (or so it seems), it's difficult sometimes to accept how others care for my child. But I am only human, and so are you. My only recommendation would be to put the children's medication next to whatever it was that your dh used and make sure he knows you put it there for him "so it will be easier for him next time to find the right stuff." An ounce of prevention...

[Piglet68]

Actually, SBF, I completely agree with you. You can't fight biology, and women are simply (on average) better equipped (instinctually speaking) to parent. My DH gets extremely offended when I bring up "maternal instinct" but it's nothing personal: it's simply a fact of nature. I'm not sure of a single mammalian species where the male is the primary caregiver, and even in mating pairs the male's job is to feed and support the female. Of course, Fathers (and partners of any sex) can be wonderful parents, and do just about everything a mother can. But to deny that babies *tend* to prefer their mothers (and I disagree that it is just about breastfeeding, btw), or that mothers have a unique emotional bond that men do not, is simply hiding one's head in the sand.

Frankly, as I always say, it's about time that Nature worked in the Female's favour for a change. Millenia of patriarchy, war, and sexual oppression are due to Nature weighing in on the side of the Male.

Anyways, to get back on topic....with all I've said, I still think that the OP needs to keep her partner on board as a *partner*. And actually, oceanbaby, I think your later post about how upset you were to discover that what you thought was "nature taking it's course" was actually a medicated baby...well, I think that speaks alot more to the cause of your anger/betrayal/upset. It's amazing how, when we talk these things out (and it's nice if you can do so with your spouse in an emotionally safe environment), we find out what the root of the issue was.

I am not sure I would say that you "over-reacted" however, b/c I think a considerable part of your reaction was the "mama bear" response, and boy do we all know how that feels!

Anyways, great suggestions here on how you can deal with this in the future. Best of luck!

[Breathless Wonder]

single mammalian species where the male is the primary caregiver

T But I think penguins are.

And actually, oceanbaby, I think your later post about how upset you were to discover that what you thought was "nature taking it's course" was actually a medicated baby...well, I think that speaks alot more to the cause of your anger/betrayal/upset.

I'm assuming oceanbaby has been reading over in Health and Healing, and on the Vaccinations forums about Tylenol, and the dangers. I'm curious how many of you posting on this thread have? With this assumption in mind, I thought that it was pretty reasonable for her to be upset!

It was adult medicine first of all. An ABSOLUTE no no!
Tylenol is NOT as benign as it is portrayed by the general population. It can severely complicate some illnesses, and is tough on the liver, which is already taxed when you are sick.
She had thought her DH was on board, and had been listening to her line of thought, and agreed with it. I got the impression in other words, that she made it clear to him, (or attempted to) why this was so important to him.

If you feel so strongly about whether your child has medication, then you should be the one to get up with the child in the middle of the night.

And I *SO* do not agree with this! change the situation. What if it was bicycle helmet use? Or giving junk food to a child who is sensitive to it? I would be really pissed in my partner compromised my child's health and safety. And while I can't speal for oceanbaby, it seems to me that she feels much the same way about using Tylenol except as an absolute last resort.

She can't do anything about what was done now.

But in the future she can make it clearer to her DH (maybe in writing) how she feels and why, and she (or he with her if he is interested) can come up with a game plan for how illness should be handled.

He was waking up a lot during the night (sleeping next to me), but was not whiny or miserable at all. He was totally burning up, very hot, but he was almost kind of happy, maybe even a little fever delirium - talking about random stuff, etc. At 3am when he woke up, I noticed that his fever was going down a bit. I was so happy that it seemed like I was finally going to be able to just let his fever run it's course without him being too miserable. At around 4am, he asked to go sleep with dh, who was sleeping in ds's bed (in our room) so that ds and I would have more room.

Her GH was NOT up all night. She was, off and on. And it seems that the child was not whining or crying. It is my impression, that the DH medicated the child for his OWN convenience, and not necessarily because he felt it was in the child's best interest. I realize that sometimes as a parent, you NEED to compromise to get your sleep. But at 4 am, when DH has not been getting up with the child, and presumably has had a decent chunk of sleep, I would find the act of him medicating my child unecessarily very frustrating.

but then again, I'm assuming the DH has been sleeping normally, and had gone to bed at a reasonable hour. Maybe that's not the case (though if DH stayed up...oh, I don't know, playing video games, and that's why at 4 am he felt the need to medicate my child, I'd still be pissed!)

oceanbaby, feel free to jump in and correct me if I was wrong.

Disclaimer: These are my feeling on the subject, and how I would feel in oceanbaby's shoes.

[Breathless Wonder]

Just wanted to reemphasize here that they need to come up with a plan of action, in writing of when it would and would not be acceptable to use Tylenol, and perhaps even outline alternative approaches to try first.

[Korwynne]

Originally Posted by SBF

I'm not going to be popular for saying this, but I think a mother should have the final say when it comes to her children.

If she's a single mother, sure. If she's raising the children with a partner(reguardless of gender or marital status), that person should also have some sort of input. Maybe not weighted as heavily but their feelings/opinions *should* matter as well.

Oceanbaby - one thing I think you need to keep in mind is that reguardless of how you feel about the outcome, he was trying to do something helpful... while it might not have shown the best judgement, he didn't medicate your child out of any sense of spite or to cause harm.. he did what he thought was a good thing. If your DH is anything like mine, the conversation may go easier if you start by acknowledging that and then go into what you would have prefered he'd done... and one more thought.. if it's 5 am and the kids are up feverish and seem miserable, my DH isn't as calm and laid back about it as I am.. he tends to get more stressed about those sort of things... and being a typical male, he wants to "fix" it....

[Breathless Wonder]

In my house, I have final say because I am the person that lives with the results of the decisions on a day in, day out basis.

[oceanbaby]

To clarify, I was wakened (is that the right way to say that?) on and off the first part of the night (until 3 or 4am), and then dh was sleeping with him, and was awakened several times.

However, the wakings were not crying or loud, so they only woke the person that was next to him. That's why I didn't even know that ds was awake after ds decided to go lay down with dh in the other bed.

Dh's desire to medicate has always been because he feels like that's what he would want if he were in that situation, and that he thinks sleep is more healing than letting the fever run it's course. It's an argument we've had many times. I understand about medicating for compassion, but I just think it has got to be worse than what it was that night. Nights, or days, that ds has been completely miserable with a fever, I usually give a little tylenol 1 time after letting it go for a bit to see what will happen. I think sleep is healing and important as well. But I just feel strongly about letting fevers go if at all possible. So yes, if the child is totally miserable and can't get ANY sleep, then I am okay with a little tylenol. But this time, even though ds kept waking, he also kept falling right back asleep, and was not upset when he did wake up.

while it might not have shown the best judgement, he didn't medicate your child out of any sense of spite or to cause harm.. he did what he thought was a good thing. If your DH is anything like mine, the conversation may go easier if you start by acknowledging that and then go into what you would have prefered he'd done

Yes, I was able to see that after I had gotten over the shock of feeling so lost about ds being medicated without me knowing about it. And I have since acknowledged to dh that I appreciate him taking initiative and doing what he thought was best, but that we really need to come to an agreement about when to medicate, and that he really needs to think it through before just grabbing the adult tylenol, i.e., take it a little more seriously!

[Korwynne]

I think you're on the right track Hope it all works out for you

[Piglet68]

oceanbaby:



breathless: emperor penguin males care exclusively for the offspring. however, they are not mammals.

[sohj]

These are exactly the kind of issues that need to be hammered out before there are any children.

But, fwiw, I just don't have that kind of medication in the house. Makes it easier to enforce. Plenty of herbs that do lots of stuff...fever support, fever reducers, fever increasers, etc. And he knows how to use them, too.

CONSIDERING that there had been disagreement before, I think that each parent going ahead with what they would want to do with a child who is sick is awkward to say the least. On both sides. Definately confusing. When the child is older and capable of noticing the different remedies used by the different parents, there will be questions. I think some thought needs to be given to this problem.

Just food for thought.

[Breathless Wonder]

These are exactly the kind of issues that need to be hammered out before there are any children.

The problem is, sometimes it takes actually HAVING kids for this stuff to come up!

And then there is the issue of one parent having a change of heart.l

oceanbaby, I hope you guys are able to work things out!

[Sustainer]

I think it might be true for lions. But the point is, it's not true for humans.