Bothered by pro-choice comm.s? - Page 9

[ekblad9]

Edited b/c this is ridiculous.

[pie]

I was addressing you as you are the moderator.

I am angry at this thread not you. Sorry if that was unclear. Thanks for the public spanking.

[Drewsmom]

The problem with saying or writing things in anger is that you always regret them. I'll just tell you that I haven't read any of the posts since this but I have thought a lot about what I said. I want to apologize to Mamapie and Hydrangea for making them feel unwelcome and any others. I was mad at some things that you had both said and rather than addressing them at the time like I should have and specifically I just threw out some angry words and made my ends justify my means.

Although I do not agree with a lot of the things you have posted I have learned a lot from both of you and the others who have posted. I've wanted to talk with those who hold pro-choice views for a while and it has helped me to understand that position more and has truly made me think.

Although I was angry at the time and did lash out I don't want you both or anyone to walk away with negative or angry feelings. In the end it's just not what I want to put out in this world. I don't know if you'll be reading this or not so I'll make sure to pm you with it and hope that you will accept my sincere apology for being very insensitive.

I wanted to add something just to explain exactly where I was coming from so that when this is archived I will have said my piece. I felt like many, many things that those who do frequent the forum had said were getting picked apart and slammed when I hadn't noticed them doing the same to others. I felt like several people had left the thread (w/out making a big to do about it) and weren't posting for fear of being picked apart. That's what really saddened me and made me speak in anger. In going back and rereading the entire thread (which I should have done in the first place) I realized that several others who had posted on the pro-choice view had not posted again and perhaps they felt the same way. I did come over to get the opinion of those who frequented this forum and didn't expect others in TAO to know about it. In my posting naivity I actually did think it would be mostly spirituality frequenters who would post. I felt like I could be more honest and open w/out the fear of being what I perceived of as attacked. I did not mean to make others feel excluded and i hope that I will be able to hear from those who usually don't frequent this forum more often, I feel like they are my friends. Friends who can agree to disagree.

[pie]

Drew you are a huge person. Thank you so much. Thank you.

[glad2bemama]

As for my role in stirring the pot-- Drewsmom is my little sister...

my apologies to everyone for having lashed out in anger.

[Cynthia Mosher]

Beautiful!

[hydrangea]

I don't know that I have half as much strength to do what you have just done.

Thank you.

[Deirdre]

And I apologize also because I am the one who commented on Drewsmom statement (about thread jumping) when I could have left well enough alone. I felt icky after I posted it because I thought I may be getting really nitpicky and I should have done what my tummy told me to do which was to go back and edit it.

I reiterate what I said before...thanks for an excellent thread....

[marymom]

we have state issued license plates here in Florda that say
CHOOSE LIFE you know the ones you can buy from the tag and toitle place where the donations go to help the non profit?
go figure, I didnt think it was legal to advertise but<shrug shoulders> I guess they can advertise their perception of life on license plates, awww go figure?
obviously I am prochoice- but even so, I donmtthink its right that they should have pro choice on a plate either,. the license plates should not be advertising, they should be ...non profit specail interests like...endangered animals and if the govt here is making a comparison of the two it seems almost unconstitutional but<sigh>
whatever

[MarieK]

OK, I'm definitely coming in to this thread late.... If you all are done here I certainly understand. I haven't seen the commercials, and I am SO glad this is a non-tv household. Most commercials bother me, well ok, all commercials bother me. I think these comms. in particular would ruffle my feathers. I agree with most everything boobybooby posted. I have had a similar experience with abortion. What our society needs is not commercials, but EDUCATION Being in total denial of my pregnancy in the first place and then needing to make a decision quickly in the second certainly didn't put me in a state of mind to seek alternatives to what *seemed* the easy way out of a situation. To broadcast on tv anything that could be construed as pro-abortion, is IMNSHO wrong.

Again, I understand if you all have had enough of this topic for a while

[karen t.]

education

as a woman, it saddens me to see that there are many women who don't do their homework (much less actually told the truth by their doctor) when it comes to abortion. like vaccinations, i am PRO EDUCATION. we, as individuals are responsible for our decisions. there are many negative effects on a woman physically and emotionally that can be long term. forget about the ethical/moral issues raised about the fetus/baby. let's focus on the woman's health. i was very upset after i sifted through some info. from different issues of the journal of the american medical association. an increased risk of breast cancer. hello? can someone tell me why this isn't spoken about? this is a devastating illness. four of my closest friends have had abortions, and while they cope, they've all told me that the psychological impact is still devastating. it's a great money industry, no doubt, and while we moan and groan about woman's rights, we're letting ourselves be duped! this upsets me, as does (off the subject) vaccinations, our food being sprayed with deadly chemicals.....the list goes on!!

[DebraBaker]

T This really irks me.

I was out with my daughter and her friend and friend's baby.

R. was telling me she didn't vaccinate and her pedi. was threatening to not care for her if she didn't have her daughter vaccinated.

The cool doctor in this area no longer takes the HMO and she feels trapped.

When I couldn't have this cool doc. I used a related practice and they didn't put that type of pressure on me (they knew better) but this is a young woman (23) and they feel like they can bully her

She has done a lot of reading and isn't operating out of laziness or ignorance.

Just pisses me off that these doctors don't respect this mother like they're wise gods (devils more like) and she musn't think, after all, *they* are wise

ug.

DB

[pie]

karen t do you have any sources?

[Megs Mom]

Originally posted by Deirdre
I know everyone feels passionate about this topic..We are actually all doing remakably well here.....I have a good friend who went on retreat with a group of pro-choice and anti-abortion people to discuss this issue. What they found out is that there really is a lot of common ground between the two groups, it just often gets blocked out when...

Yes. I'm as pro-life as they come, but I actually have a lot more respect for a pro-choice person who feels strongly about their position than for a fence-sitter who tries to have it both ways.

Great website offering support for women in unexpected pregnancies, http://www.prolife.org. I used to be majorly active on the political side of things, but now I think that the best way to decrease abortions (my ultimate goal, after all), is to offer the kind of support women in crisis pregnancies need. They need someone to talk to, they sometimes need to know about adoption, they sometimes need help talking to their parents and/or partners, they sometimes need money, they sometimes need baby gear, they sometimes need free health care.

As strongly as I feel on this issue, I'm really enjoying reading this discussion, and I'm not even halfway through yet. I love you guys!

[Megs Mom]

Originally posted by Super Pickle
Mamapie, I loved your honesty in the last post. I agree with you here:
"I am against people wanting to take the choice away though and at the same time being anti-welfare."

My dream is to see the day when abortion is made illegal except to save a woman's life, but... maternity benefits are a part of every woman's health care plan (and every woman has a health care plan); every campus has a parents' co-op so students can be parents and still stay in school; any decent non-criminal adult who wants to adopt is "allowed" to and does not have to pay out the wazoo to do so; neighbors and families take responsibility for other mothers and children; and women have enough self-confidence and self-worth to save sex for the men who will truly love them and stick with them if they get pregnant.

I will be honest, too. I am pro-life, but very uncomfortable with some prominent conservatives' pro-life but not pro-woman stance. Some people just don't understand how tough it can be to have a crisis pregnancy or to raise children alone or in any number of common circumstances. If Roe v. Wade is reversed, which I hope it will be, I pray it will be accompanied by massive legislation to make mothering something ANY WOMAN can do well, with all the support she needs.

Getting chills, b/c THIS is exactly the common ground I'm talking about. Those of us who feel strongly about abortion, on either side, are generally those of us who feel strongly about mothers and babies and their rights to feel supported and loved and cared for and have their needs met.

Your vision is beautiful.

[candiland]

Just wanted to add my two cents.
I don't believe that abortions should be illegal, because I am a very liberal person and I don't think a law should be able to tell a woman what to do and what not to do with her body.
HOWEVER, I personally have a very hard time understanding how a person could have one. I think that an abortion is a decision based out of fear -- ie., I don't want to complicate my life; I don't want things to change; I don't need a huge responsibility in my my life right now; I don't want to contribute to ruining the ecosystem; etc. etc. When you truly make decisions based on Love, and a lack of fear of change, you see all life as beautiful and sacred, whether it's an embryo, a spider, a tree, another human being, a cow, etc...
Change is crucial in challenging ourselves, in allowing ourselves to give up our need to control everything all of the time... it is when we challenge our fear face to face and refuse to allow it to make decisions for us that we truly grow as people. My daughter was born when I was twenty and neither my boyfriend or I had a job.... we were living in a tiny one bedroom apartment on a super crappy street.... but we stepped up to the plate and said, We created life, and we will not destroy this beautiful creation. Yes, we had to make MAJOR changes, some of the most difficult changes in our lives, but it's part of being a responsible human being...
And as for those who say it's better to abort than bring a child into a world where it's not loved and wanted... that child may grow up and become the next Ghandi! It is kind of pompous to say that we know the child's path better than that child. I was almost aborted, because my mother was living with my grandparents and could not support her other two children on her own... and I'm kind of offended to think that someone would feel it would be better that I'm not alive today!
Lastly, sex is what makes babies. If you have sex and get pregnant, well, duh! Sex is, in its truest form, the ultimate expression of a divine and mysterious force. Sex is the ultimate expression of love and connection with another human, and it creates a manifestation of that love -- a baby! And it is frustrating to think that women feel that it is "empowering" to be sexually active and just get an abortion if they get pregnant. Talk about UNspirituality...:

[hydrangea]

Originally posted by candiland
HOWEVER, I personally have a very hard time understanding how a person could have one. I think that an abortion is a decision based out of fear -- ie., I don't want to complicate my life; I don't want things to change; I don't need a huge responsibility in my my life right now; I don't want to contribute to ruining the ecosystem; etc. etc. When you truly make decisions based on Love, and a lack of fear of change, you see all life as beautiful and sacred, whether it's an embryo, a spider, a tree, another human being, a cow, etc...

Then I assume you are against birth control as well? Wouldn't that fit into the "fear" factor?

Also, what about Love for the ecosystem and Love for one's family and Love for oneself? For some people, sometimes, Love means different things, and I believe it is up to us to figure it out. In fact, I am feeling very unLoved by your post, because you are obviously judging me since I chose to have an abortion.

Yes, we had to make MAJOR changes, some of the most difficult changes in our lives, but it's part of being a responsible human being...

I personally felt that my abortion was the responsible thing for me to do.

And as for those who say it's better to abort than bring a child into a world where it's not loved and wanted... that child may grow up and become the next Ghandi! It is kind of pompous to say that we know the child's path better than that child.

I don't believe I aborted a child. I believe there was some tissue that was removed.

I was almost aborted, because my mother was living with my grandparents and could not support her other two children on her own... and I'm kind of offended to think that someone would feel it would be better that I'm not alive today!

Personally I was always proud to march alongside my mother in pro-choice marches, when she was carrying her "Four Children, By Choice" poster.

If you have sex and get pregnant, well, duh! Sex is, in its truest form, the ultimate expression of a divine and mysterious force. . . Talk about UNspirituality...:

According to whose God?

[pie]

paging Nursing Mother, Nursing Mother, please report to the Pledge of Allegiance thread in Activism. Nursing Mother, please report to Activism immediately. Thank you.

[MarieK]

Candiland, I agree with you. I DID have an abortion, and it was DEFINITELY out of fear. I was so bleeping scared I denied my pregnancy for 18 weeks! Yes, that was a baby I had killed out of fear. What I needed was support and someone to crash through my life and tell me about other options. YES I ABSOLUTELY should not have had sex in the first place!!! Luckily, I did have counseling after the fact, and while I don't think I'll ever forgive myself, I have come to a place within me that accepts the mistakes I've made. It is, of course, because of my own experience that I am against the promotion of teenagers having "safe" sex, and abortions. Let's hear it for NO SEX until marriage!! (and no divorce, and a loving, happy world, and cotton candy clouds!)

Hydrangea, I am glad you are at peace with your decision. You are a strong woman.

[Deirdre]

I agree with MarieK and Candiland that most women make the decision to have an abortion from out of fear of something....stigma, poverty, responsibility, partner issues, etc. So the question is, how do we remove fear from the equation??? How do we make our society one in which every person feels loved and respected and supported??? How do we make it so all our actions are based on love?? This is a challenging but noble goal.

I am not opposed to sex education because I am a realist. The fact of the matter is that teens are going to have sex...and if we tell them not to using a fear based reasoning (ie, God will be mad, you should feel ashamed) we are teaching a whole new generation to make decisions based on fear. What I do think, though, is that we need more courses in school which teach and give children and teens the opportunity to build self-esteem and feel good about themselves and their body. I believe that if girls, in particular, felt good about themselves they wouldn't feel pressured to have unwanted sex....and let's face it a lot of girls are having sex because they feel pressured into it....anyway, i am heading off topic here so I will head out....