Bothered by pro-choice comm.s? - Page 4

[hydrangea]

Another commercial hater here!

We also avoid them by not having cable and sticking mainly to videos and the occasional PBS since that's all we get.

Isn't it nice that so many of us have common ground even though we disagree on other issues? I love that.

[yoga]

Hate commercials...love PBS

Can't get PBS w/o cable...hate cable b/c of commercials

Have cable...still hate commercials

watch mostly videos and PBS ('cept I can't stay away from 'Will&Grace': )

[pie]

Chaka I don't do Will and Grace but would gladly sit through a thousand commercials to watch CSI. Oh man. Whats his name... woo hoo what a honey! It is the only thing I watch on TV besides the news in the AM.

[Deirdre]

Thanks NM, I went to bed thinking that I had overreacted to your reaction!!!

I know everyone feels passionate about this topic..We are actually all doing remakably well here.....I have a good friend who went on retreat with a group of pro-choice and anti-abortion people to discuss this issue. What they found out is that there really is a lot of common ground between the two groups, it just often gets blocked out when we dig into our own trenches.....

boobybooby, I second what Pallas said....kudos of respect to you.....

[boobybooby]

Originally posted by boobybooby
I really can't label myself one or the other, and I try not to corrall myself or others into their descriptive categories. . I know abortion is wrong for me. For me it violates what I believe in as a Christian.

But... I know that God *only*, understands a woman and her circumstances and I do not think that if it is wrong for me, as a Christian, that it is wrong for people who make that choice to the best of their ability, given the many dire situations women are sometimes in when pregnant. Selfish reasons is where I draw the line really.

You won't see me with a picket sign telling women what to do, and you won't see me trying to publicly save the millions of babies aborted every year, it's really not my place to push my opinion on others. (I'll quietly pray for God to give strength, patience and support to mothers-to-be who do *want* their babies... but just don't know it yet). Advertising is however, all about having an agenda and getting someone to go with your ideas.

I just want to say thanks to Pallas, Mamapie and Deidre for giving me respect. That was very kind of you all to say that. I also want to say that I may have been somewhat misleading you with what I said, or how I said it. ...maybe not, I hope not.

I know that as a Christian, abortion is wrong and if any woman came to me one on one for advice I would never suggest abortion or support it, but I still think the important thing is understanding her reasons for getting or wanting an abortion. And that I would do... understand her. I am not in a position to be admonishing to any unbeliever of Christ or explaining accountability for making choices that I think are against God, and therefore my answer only lies in understanding and loving her even if she gets an abortion against my hopes or gentle advice. I hope this doesn't change what you all think, I just wanted to clarify what I said because I really feel bad if I came off as sounding middle ground or luke warm.

I still think the commercials are bad, I think the issue is way too private for commercialism. I just wish there were more nuetral counseling going on and individual help for every woman who finds herself in the decision making process of abortion. I would also hope that any Christian woman who finds herself in this situation would seek Christian counsel and find there loving brothers and sisters that would gently encourage her to keep her baby. I sure wish I had been a Christian when I was younger, with family and friends of support, that I knew would not judge me but love and help me.

[pie]

There is nothing wrong with being pro-life, booby. Deep down I am too. It is really a tough issue for me. I would rather women look deep inside and see if there is a way they can care for their baby, if they can find ANY support, and if they would first consider adoption. I have had abortion. It is soul wrenching.

I am against people wanting to take the choice away though and at the same time being anti-welfare. If we want the babies of the world to thrive we have to pay the price sometimes. Whether we do so willingly or not, we do so in the long run.

Totally off topic and I need to stop, too emotional for me.

I am pro choice. I have to be and I hate that.

[boobybooby]

I also want to say...

I have a great deal of respect for everyone that has participated in this discussion. I think we should all be proud of ourselves for having such peaceful things to say, even when we are different in our lives. I hope the Mothering DB staff is proud of us too.

[Super Pickle]

Mamapie, I loved your honesty in the last post. I agree with you here:
"I am against people wanting to take the choice away though and at the same time being anti-welfare."

My dream is to see the day when abortion is made illegal except to save a woman's life, but... maternity benefits are a part of every woman's health care plan (and every woman has a health care plan); every campus has a parents' co-op so students can be parents and still stay in school; any decent non-criminal adult who wants to adopt is "allowed" to and does not have to pay out the wazoo to do so; neighbors and families take responsibility for other mothers and children; and women have enough self-confidence and self-worth to save sex for the men who will truly love them and stick with them if they get pregnant.

I will be honest, too. I am pro-life, but very uncomfortable with some prominent conservatives' pro-life but not pro-woman stance. Some people just don't understand how tough it can be to have a crisis pregnancy or to raise children alone or in any number of common circumstances. If Roe v. Wade is reversed, which I hope it will be, I pray it will be accompanied by massive legislation to make mothering something ANY WOMAN can do well, with all the support she needs.

[ekblad9]

[
"I will be honest, too. I am pro-life, but very uncomfortable with some prominent conservatives' pro-life but not pro-woman stance. Some people just don't understand how tough it can be to have a crisis pregnancy or to raise children alone or in any number of common circumstances. "

These are exactly my feelings. The issue is made to be so black and white when it isn't black and white at all. Whenever dh and I discuss this he tries to tell me about how tough it is for some women to raise a child alone and how it's just easier for others. I would really like to know how he or any of these other men know. I think I said before that I hate the fact that these men make the decisions and laws. It shouldn't be up to them at all. Plus, they "blame" the women and it's all but impossible to track down a guy for child support. I got not one penny from my son's bio dad and it was a bunch of men that made that decision. They would kind of smirk each time I would try to make a case against him and one even called him a "poor guy". That's a shame.T

T T T T T T T T Sorry, I know that was off topic!

[peggy]

excellent post pie!!

Those are my feelings as well.

peggy

[pie]

Thank you Peggy. We seem to be thinking with the same head lately!

[tessamami]

Originally posted by ekblad6
[B]No, I don't think they should have these commercials on TV. I don't think that impressionable kids should even know that there is a "way out".B]

I am a librarian. I am pro-choice. And I cannot agree that kids should not know their options - even if we disagree with them.

God has given us free will (the difference between us and the angels) and to take away choice is to take away the very stuff that makes us human.

I lost a baby to SIDS. I know the horror of losing a baby. I just happen to feel that a baby loved and hoped for, a baby named is a VERY different loss than losing one to an abortion.

I had a miscarriage and was sad to lose the baby but also relieved because I was young and unmarried at the time. I did not have to make the decision of whether or not to carry the baby as God made it for me. The experience left me with empathy for other women whose choice may have been very hard (either way).

When carrying my second child (third pregancy) I was acutely aware of how perilous pregnancy could be. . .I had heard so many sad stories through the support group I had attended. . . I had a very healthy pregnancy but my fear of miscarriage, premature birth, stillbirth were all big. This stuff about murdering a baby goes too far I think because until the baby is born and indeed until the baby makes its first birthday - life can be uncertain. And it is this uncertainty that makes me unable to equate abortion with murder.

"Judge not, lest ye be judged."

[pie]

thank you tessa, for your eloquence.

[tessamami]

I have reread this thread and on the topic of men and abortion I have one sentence that I would like everyone to meditate on:

"One penis, no vote" (don't know who said it first)

[Super Pickle]

Since this is Spirituality, may I comment on my persective concerning free will and Jesus' command to Judge Not?
I believe that free will means that God does not manipulate us with a giant remote control. We do as we will. In no way does this mean that every action should be legal. When we as a society decide that a certain action is wrong (i.e. rape, stealing, etc.), some still exercise their free will, but in an attempt to curb the behavior we impose laws that make it more difficult and less rewarding. This is not equivalent to wresting God-given free will away from humans. Those who feel abortion is wrong should not let this line of reasoning prevent them from voting their conscience.

I know a lot of pro-choicers think that we pro-lifers are trying to judge others. Most of us know it's not our place to damn anyone to Hell or think more highly of ourselves than others. This does not mean that we don't have the right to make any moral judgements on actions. We should not be intimidated by fear of being labeled judgemental out of voicing our convictions.

[pie]

pickle, we have managed not to turn this into a debate so far. You have made your stance clear. She made hers. Can we just allow each other to speak? If I can see where booby is coming from then you can at least allow others to speak their piece...

peace,

Pie

[Super Pickle]

Mamapie, I do not believe I was being disrespectful, attacking anyone personally, or trying to silence anyone. Just taking issue with some statements.
Maybe you could help me out with the rules for this thread
Are we not supposed to quote others for the sake of expressing disagreement?
How 'bout if I go up and edit all references to other posts?

[pie]

I think that this is such a hard issue, and I think that we should try and simply allow each other to speak. If you want more details PM me. There are no real rules, but I can tell you that this thread is being closely watched by the admin (I am guessing that actually) and that all future discussion of this topic hinges on how peacefully we can discuss it.

[Super Pickle]

Thanks for keeping me in line mp

Now back to the original topic ...

THe NARAL ads are definitely more slick and sophisticated than the Shake the Nation ones. rolleyes:

Since this is Spirituality, here's some encouragement for Christians...If you are troubled in your spirit by the commercials and the state of things in general, meditate on Proverbs 16:4. "The Lord works out everything for his own ends..." This verse reminds me that he is sovereign and will redeem even this situation. I think when we see Jesus his crown will be dazzling with all the precious jewels, the innocent little ones that went to Heaven prematurely.
The second half of the verse, which I won't quote, is also a reminder that we do not have to get angry or wonder where is the justice in the world.

[anythingelse]

Actually the most offensive commercial I have ever seen was one of the Trojan man ones on MTV because the young woman was portrayed as needed to be so grateful to her man for 'protecting' her. Some of these make young women look like horny idiots.