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The Red Tent  

post #1 of 32
6/7/02 at 4:27pm
Thread Starter 
OMG......has anyone read this book???? I"m almost finished with it
and all I can say is how much I am loving it!!!!
Anyone want to discuss it???
post #2 of 32
6/7/02 at 8:12pm
Missgirl, have you seen the discussion about the companionship of women? this was started by this book!

I would love to discuss it if you wish-- this is one of my alltime favorite books!

NM, I hear what you are saying in regards to the Pagan aspects and could see how that could bother some ( it certainly did my mother ) however, I loooved the emphasis on strong women and the bond between them. It actually helped my interest in reading The Old Testament again.

It is interesting though, that the author is a Jewish author. Hmmm. It felt at times that she had a rather negative view of Judaism at times htough didn't it? It would be fun to get Amyrpk's perspective on this.

Am I pre-discussing? Sorry. I am in a book club IRL and love to discuss books...
post #3 of 32
6/7/02 at 11:24pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks glad2bemama...I'll go check that thread out!!!

Well I'm not too familiar with the biblical aspect of the story so
NM you might be right. I am just intrigued by the closeness and
faithfullness of these women. It has made me look at my life in
a completely different way and it has made me realize what is
missing in my life. KWIM?
My mother in particular! I speak with her regularly but we have no
bonds or closeness that comes anything close to what the women
in the book had. She raised me to think periods, breasts, birthing,
and breastfeeding are taboo topics that are never meant to be spoken
aloud!
I am so bitter about it......
What has happened to this world???????
post #4 of 32
6/8/02 at 12:03am
Nursing Mother,
As a Christian I too had some questions about all of the paganism dealt with in the book. I then just decided it was amazing how God always calls those who are willing, not just those who are worthy. According to the Red Tent, The twelve tribes of Isreal came from a Jewish father and pagan mothers. How wonderful to know that God is less concerned with your pedigree than with your potential. I'm not sure if I am expressing myself well but I hope you understand my meaning.

As far as a community of women, I feel like I have truly missed out by being born in this recent century.
post #5 of 32
6/8/02 at 2:20am

Loved this book

I read this book about a year ago and the only thing I didn't like about it was that it had to end. I just wanted to keep on reading. I recommended this book to everyone in my family and to my friends. I'm up for discussion, definately. I think I'm going to reread it to get back the intensity I felt the first time. If I remember correctly, this book made me "feel" more than any other book I've read.
post #6 of 32
6/8/02 at 11:38am

I loved it

I'm re-reading it now. It's my favorite book. When I read it, I feel such a longing to be part of a community like that, even though that's not something I particularly think about at other times! it was a very powerful book.

I actually enjoyed the paganism (note that I'm not religious of any sort, but come from a Christian background and am very familiar with the original stories), because I had never thought of the people in those stories and their beliefs in that way... I know it's conjecture on the part of the author, but I liked that she raised that possibility... it got me thinking! And I don't think it's necessarily inaccurate... I'm sure that beliefs like those were floating around during those times, even if they were wrong from a monotheistic Christian (or Jewish, then) standpoint. It made a lot of sense to me.
post #7 of 32
6/8/02 at 1:25pm
I wasn't too offended at the parts where she took liberties and made guesses but what bothered me were things that specifically were biblically inaccurate (there were only a couple) but still why not just stick to the facts where the facts are know.
The book did promt me to reread my Bible and try to see things through a womans perspective. It does change some things. It was also cool to imagine what someones perspective would have been if they didn't have the inside scoop or full picture of the situation. (SPecifically the part where Jacob wresteled with the angle but in the book everyone assumed he had been mugged)

I really liked the idea of getting away from the world whenyou have your period to sit and chat wouldn't that completely cure PMS? "Woo-hoo, its almost timne for our periods again yeah. I know I would sure be looking forward to it.

I loved the book. It is definitely one of the best stories i have ever read.
post #8 of 32
6/8/02 at 3:47pm
I read it just over a month ago and loved it. I am curious how many of you out there have read Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver. That is one of the best books I have ever read and The Red Tent is right up there with it.
post #9 of 32
6/8/02 at 11:37pm
Thread Starter 
Well I know these discussion boards are the closest thing I have to
The Red Tent! That is why I love it here so much!
Coming from me (a person that has zero religious background) I am amazed
that these characters were real people! It intrigues me so much. It's like I
want to keep reading and reading and reading and reading.....................
So I want to thank those of you that are giving me the religious aspects of the
story b/c it is making so much more real for me! But I feel like i am missing out
now on the "truth." So lilyka~I DID think Jacob got mugged by some
thugs! The author left it so unclear. I wondered why Jacob didn't cross the stream in the first placewith his family? Why did he stay when it was so easy for him to just cross? And I'd like to know more about the statues that Rachel stole from her father and more about the "becoming a woman" ritual they did when a young girl became a woman.
That's my problem.....I just want to learn more about it all!!!!!

I do know that I love discussing this with you guys! Thanks for it!
post #10 of 32
6/9/02 at 5:02am
Quote:
Originally posted by Carmen
I read it just over a month ago and loved it. I am curious how many of you out there have read Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver. That is one of the best books I have ever read and The Red Tent is right up there with it.
I read Poisonwood Bible a few months ago. It was incredible! I'm waiting for our bookstore here to get The Red Tent in stock, I'm really eager to read it too.
post #11 of 32
6/9/02 at 10:43pm
Thread Starter 
Can you give me a quick summary of the Poisonwood Bible????
Thanks
post #12 of 32
6/9/02 at 11:08pm

the red tent

Forgive me if I'm posting twice. It doesn't look like my original post "took," so I'm rewriting:

Nursing Mother: Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m certain that Jesus descended from Judah who was born to Leah (not from Josephs born to Rachael.) Not overwhelmingly important I guess, but significant to me. My name is Leah, and my father told me the story and recounted the lineage very often ever since I can remember.

As far as the paganism – I think it was a very good educated guess on the part of the author, and most likely represented the truth about their culture. Remember that this all took place well before Moses. There was no written law for the Jews. Judaism was brand new with few of its own traditions. Also, it makes sense that women would not be bothered with as much in terms of religious indoctrination, and left to follow their own traditions. Note that the brothers were very well versed in Jacob’s stories and traditions.

I was impressed by the author’s allegiance to the biblical accounts. I don’t think she deviated. She was very careful not to contradict the facts or the order of the stories as set out in Genesis, and yet she presented such a different perspective/spin on them then we were ever taught in Sunday School. I was amazed.

I was drawn to the relationships portrayed between the women. OTOH – I would not want to share my husband with my sister! And these women had so little control over the outcome of their lives or their children’s lives. Each of them suffered atrocity at the hands of their male counterparts. I would not trade places with them. I wonder if the closeness of their female relationships was based largely in the commonality of their shared suffering.
post #13 of 32
6/10/02 at 11:52pm
Glad2be ... thanks for thinking my input would be worth something. Sorry to say it's not, because I haven't read it. I have a copy my mother lent me, but was put off by the liberties she took with basic biblical fact; for example, she switched around which of the children of Jacob came from which mother, in some cases. Found that annoying, so didn't read further.

Having read this thread, I'm intrigued. Guess it's time to dig it out & get reading ...

- Amy
post #14 of 32
6/11/02 at 12:24am

amyrpk

You are right! She gave Naptali (sp?) to Leah when in the bible he was Billah's son. That IS annoying!!! I wonder why the heck she did that?
post #15 of 32
6/11/02 at 1:05am
Amyrpk, I always love your input! Especially since it always makes so much sense to me In fact, I had been meaning to pm you to see if you had read this.

Now, as far as the lineage...wow, perhaps this is part of why my mother did not like it. The interesting thing is that she has authored other books on Judaism. This is most curious.

I guess that for me, I really focused more on the tale of women and midwifery-- my Biblical knowledge is sorely lacking. Though, I have been studying the OT these last few months, so it would be interesting to go back and re-read.

Mamaduck, you brought up an interesting point. This probably is the very reason for the closeness of the women-- their shared suffering. My goodness, there certainly was more than their share. Poor Rachel-- my heart would break for her every time one of the other women would have a child and then her birth...

Another aspect that my sister brought up to me was her concern that there were epesiotomies? I didn't remember this? I do remember the Cesarean, but that is all. Anyone else?

Nursing Mother, the idea of women being honored and resting during their cycles each month sounds heavenly. This is part of what really drew me to this book-- the idea of true support and community during childbirth especially. I think that every woman deserves this...(sigh)
post #16 of 32
6/11/02 at 2:40am
I just LOVED both The Red Tent and The Poisonwood Bible. I think that -- even though the author of the Red Tent took some historical liberties, she maintained the contextual integrity that made the book so moving an powerful.

It was an interesting book for me to read. I have always felt called to adopt my children, but DH and I decided to try for one homegrown child (more because adoption is so expensive than anything else). Early on, I was diagnosed with PCOS and told that I would need intervention to conceive. We went right back to adoption as we did not want to use intervention. So...I thought, knowing what I did about The Red Tent, that it would be very difficult for me to read (never having conceived or given birth). It really wasn't. I was drawn to the tribal relationships of the women and the ways that they all celebrated and mourned each other's personal triumphs and struggles with conception.

Throughout our whole process of trying to conceive (3 months about 2.5 years ago) and also adoption the women of my church young couples' group have been for me that tribe that celebrates my triumps and mourns my struggles.

As a Christian, I was pleased to see an author try to explore these relationships among women more deeply. Too often Christian Biblical scholars and thologians negate feminine sensuality -- which includes everything from what we eat to how we converse/bond to intimacy to childbirth to simply holding a babe in our arms. Yet, the Bible is filled with tidbits of feminine sensuality. Many theologians simply choose to ignore those moments for fear that they might unleash crazed sensual beings in women everywhere (I say that as somewhat of a theologian myself -- and one who once struggled to understand sensuality in the context of God's creation. I was fortunate, however, to study in Berkeley, CA -- where we were encouraged to dig deeply into every crevice of thological thought -- whether fact or conjecture). Did that sound haughty? That wasn't my intention -- just trying to say that, in knocking theologians, I include myself.

Re: Poisonwood Bible -- I really appreciated Kingsolver's depiction of a flawed preacher and how his self-righteousness destroyed his family and wounded the community where he chose to preach.

I would love any more discussion about either of these books (as a member of this tribe -- not as a thologian)



Peace,
Paula
post #17 of 32
6/12/02 at 12:24am
As to the paganism of the women. It makes perfect sense to me that they knew very little of the Jewish religion. Women weren't really allowed to worship and were sorta considered too stupid to grasp God anyway. In the book you will notice Jacob took great pains from the time his children were young to tell them the stories and teach them the faith but Dinah never spoke face to face with her father. He considered her a blessing because she was an extra pair of hands to help take care of the men but otherswise would have been far more important if born a son instead of a daughter. Also the women weren't raised in a jewish home and there fore none of the faith had rubbed off on them. And if Jacob didn't deem it nessecary to teach them then how would they have known any different. Does that make sense.

About the Poisionwood Bible - My favorite book of all time. I really have a heart for missions so this book really touched me. You hear tales of people who go and let pride and religion get in the way of people learning about a savior who loves them and created them the way they are and the pastor in this book was a prime example of that. His family suffered, the people in the village suffered, and even the people whoi were warming up to God went unning for the hills so to speak. Also growing up surrounded bby Southern Baptist there was a lot of cultural thigs delt with that I was familiar with. BUt that I suppose is an entirely different subject. . . Ahh, but this book could have a thread all its own.
post #18 of 32
6/12/02 at 2:32pm
I just finished The Red Tent and I enjoyed it, but I, too, was a little put off by some of her extrapolations of the storyline. Part of my problem is that I've always enjoyed the story of Joseph as a tale of forgiveness and reconciliation, and that pretty image was blown away by this story. Plus, I think as much companionship as there was among the women, there was also a lot of jealousy and dissention at times. All of this is realistic, but it doesn't leave me with the same rosy view of women living and working together that some readers get.

Poor Joseph getting buggered during his time in slavery, even by Potiphar...hmmm. It could have happened, but I have no reason to believe that that is more likely than it not happening. Still, I liked the story and the detail, and I admire the author for her strong ideas. I'm curious what her historical sources were.
post #19 of 32
6/12/02 at 5:07pm
Thread Starter 
Thanks so much ladies for your discussion! I am loving reading
what you are saying!

lilyka~there is a thread about Poisonwood Bible!
post #20 of 32
6/12/02 at 5:32pm
Good point, Amywillow. I have been mulling over what you said in regards to some of the dissent, etc. in regards to the women. Now, I am beginning to feel a little like a big ol' hypocrite.

I guess that it is easy to put on those rose colored glasses in regards to the support that the women share together, but there were inevitable difficulties that do seem... how do I say this? Um, more female in nature?

This is precisely the reason that I chose to have male roomates in college and not female. Originally I was to live with 6 other girls in an apartment and decided against it-- sorry, but the pms alone would have killed me. Instead, I chose the apartment next door withh 1 girl and two guys. Soooo much easier... cannot even tell you!

A small side note, one of those "guys" is my now dh. Although, we were completely platonic and did not fall in love until after I moved out...

Anyway, sorry to derail. Just had to mention my hypocrisy. Much as I would love to have the comfort and compassion when I need it or can give it, gotta say... it would be difficult. I know I could not share my man, that is for sure!
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