I feel like a GD failure

[mama2j&t]

I am feeling very frustrated and think maybe I can gain some advice or insight here. We have always tried to practice GD, or maybe rather non-punitive discipline... DH and I agree that natural or logical consequences are much more appropriate than punishments. We don't spank, though DH thinks it's ok for big offenses (dangerous behaviors), and it has occurred a couple of times. I don't agree, but i feel like I am fighting so many battles with the discipline thing. I was raised in a very punitive household with a lot of spanking and yelling. My sis spanks and yells and time outs, etc. So my family already is unsupportive and acts like it's my own fault that DS acts up. He is 2 1/2 and very 'spirited'. Lately he is quite agressive - hitting, throwing things, and running away. Part of me thinks this is somewhat normal behavior, but with all the voices whispering around me I feel like it is my fault, that I haven't "disciplined" him. I KNOW that discipline is teaching and punishing isn't teaching anything, but I am getting so frustrated because he is pushing all my buttons constantly and getting out of control wherever we go. My ped recommended 123 magic, and I just read the post on that, and I don't really like the idea of timeouts, but I wonder if that would work. I am just afraid because i have this subconscious conditioning that spanking is required for offenses (darn that house i grew up in....) and i HATE that I feel that way because i believe spanking is wrong.

Sorry I am rambling. I just want to think that DS is going through a phase - DS #2 is 3 mo old and maybe DS #1 is still adjusting to having to share the spotlight. But are there certain personality types that need a little more structure, and how can I give that structure (boundaries I guess) without being punitive? When DS hits me or throws a toy because I asked him to talk quietly as the baby is sleeping, how should I handle that? Explaining that hitting isn't nice and hurts mommy doesn't seem to have any impact on him, not to mention when I ask him to talk quietly, he starts to scream

Ahh, I hate the term 'terrible twos' - i don't want to think my child is terrible, but that is sure how it feels :

[robugmum]

I have a 2.5 year old dd, It is a challenging age. One thing I tend to do with my kids is let them know that they have a right to choose what they do with their bodies but if they decide to be hurtful or dangerous then it is my job to step in and make choices for them. I say this a lot: "can you stop yourself or do you need my help to stop you?" I don't use time outs but I do sometimes give them a count of three before I need to take over their choice. I also will sometimes take them to their room, or a quiet place and explain that they need to have some quiet thinking time so they can resume playing safely, or politely, or whatever. I don't put any limits on how long they stay in the quiet place, its up to them to decide when to rejoin the activity. I think its totally reasonable to explain to a child that hitting and screaming make it really hard to be together and maybe some time alone will help. If your ds #2 is causing some feelings of jealousy or insecurity its a good idea to make sure that ds#1 is getting enough mama time on his own too. When hitting or hurting does happen, I find that it really helps to give the child a chance to end the interaction with gentleness: "lets give so and so a gentle touch to help her feel better." That way, the child doesn't begin to label himself as the hurter, but the comforter. KWIM?
I too grew up in a home where hitting and screaming were the norm. (so did both of my parents) It is very difficult not to resort to that style when I am feeling stressed. I have been trying to be easier on myself when I do lose it with my kids. I always apologize and try to explain to them what was happening in my body and my brain while I was angry. We talk about how we want to act when we are angry. I hope now, that my kids, although not having a perfectly scream free childhood, are at least getting less of it and more positive modelling than I did. Maybe they will be just that much better than me when they are parents. Then their kids will be that much better than them and so on. I have to think about this because otherwise, I don't think I could ever move on to the next day. I hope this helps. It is so important to shaare our feelings about this kind of stuff with each other.

[CartersMomma]

Thanks to both of you for sharing honestly. I, too, feel like a failure. I had a horrible day with ds yesterday, and I slapped his face. : Yes, I feel like crap about it. He just trips my trigger sometimes and I lose it. I did ask for his forgiveness.

I am trying hard though, and I like your idea about how we can get "better" at discipline each generation. I don't take that to be an excuse for me to screw up now, but I need to feel that there is HOPE for me to keep on getting better.

When I had my son, I naturally gravitated towards punishments, time out, spanking and yelling. Probably partly due to my personality/stress tolerance/his personality, and the fact that I was also spanked and yelled at as a child. I don't really have bad feelings towards my mom about it though. Anyway, I have gradually learned that #1-----I think its the wrong way to do things, it feels BAD, and #2-----It's NOT WORKING! But GD takes SOOOOOO much more effort, time and creativity!! But I will not give up.

[mama2j&t]

I am trying hard though, and I like your idea about how we can get "better" at discipline each generation. I don't take that to be an excuse for me to screw up now, but I need to feel that there is HOPE for me to keep on getting better

YES!!!!!! This makes such good sense to me. Sometimes I think I feel like it is all a black and white thing- parenting, discipline, when really it is not that way at all. I feel like when I do things I wish I didn't (lose my cool, etc) I am a bad mom. I guess I should just be thankful that I am not just following the ways I learned and am trying to parent more respectfully. Some days are harder than others and we can't expect ourselves to be perfect. We can want perfection, but when we expect it from ourselves it causes more tension.

Ugghh, too tired to think... DH has been away all week and I am having kid overload!!!!!! Both are currently asleep and I should be too while I have the chance

It is nice to be able to share frustrations without feeling judged. Thanks for your responses.

[robugmum]

I've just gotta say, I am loving this thread!

[Piglet68]

I say this a lot: "can you stop yourself or do you need my help to stop you?" I don't use time outs but I do sometimes give them a count of three before I need to take over their choice. I also will sometimes take them to their room, or a quiet place and explain that they need to have some quiet thinking time so they can resume playing safely, or politely, or whatever. I don't put any limits on how long they stay in the quiet place, its up to them to decide when to rejoin the activity.

robugmom: I loved this! thanks for sharing. i'll be filing this one away in my brain for future use!

[calebsmama03]

mama2j&t -
I think I could have written your post almost to a T! I was raised in a house where spanking was the predominant form of discipline (along with screaming) and as I got older (primary school plus) my father became outright abusive. I feel like the only method I've ever been taught for dealing with difficult behavior is physical violence or screaming and I HATE that! I am very against spanking and intend not to do so with my children, but now that DS is 15 mos and getting more difficult to redirect I find it VERY tough and it is a constant job to remind myself of my personal convitions on the matter. I hope someone has some great insights on how to best break that pattern of thought so I can feel truly gentle/loving in my discipline methods.

Thanks for opening up such a touchy subject!

[KingsDaughter76]

Breaking the pattern of thought....hmmmm....well thats my difficulty now!

See~ my children and I had to move in with my parents and grandmother...due to my soon to be ex-dh molestation of our son.. I have been battling the spankers mentality for YEARS! I was raised being spanked , more abused...and that "I must spank or my children will be horrible unruly children" thought ingrained in me from an early age...When I had my children I was admant that I would never spank or hit my kids...my DH was also raised in an abused home and although he was abused too he felt that spanking was the way to raise kids..(still can't figure that one out) of course his whole mind had to of been messed up for him to molest his own 4 yr old son!!! UGH! Anyways~ I was always a non-spanker and up until we had to move in with my family ( we had no other choice...here or the streets!) it was not too hard to implement..but now that we are living with a bunch of pro-spankers and "children should be seen and NOT heard" nuts...things have been rather bumpy!! I admit that under the pressure here to keep the children "quiet" and "obediant" (which is a VERY difficult thing to do to THEIR specifications, since they don't like NORMAL active childhood noises and messes) that I have spanked to keep the peace on a few occassions...I HATE it and it goes against every bone in my body...but I just don't know WHAT to do????!! My 73 yr old grandmother loves to yell at us and constantly reminds me that HER children were quiet and never bothered her etc....(yeah..too afraid to breathe!) She says That I need to spank my children and put some fear in them to get them to obey etc...blah blah...I am the only adult in this house that feels that spanking is wrong....and yet I have given in to the majority vote and done the thing that I despise the most! I feel horrible!!! Granted, I have never spanked in the way they want me too and the times I have they told me that it wasn't hard enough or that they should be crying etc or that I need to use a belt, switch, spoon etc. I can;t even spank "right" in their opinion either! It is so hard to live here...I told my children today that I will never EVER spank them again...that I know the other adults insist on it..but that I KNOW it is not the way Jesus wants me to raise and teach them....I plan to get us moved out as quickly as possible...into a more child friendly environment..until then all I can do is my best...which can be very hard when you feel like the world is against you... all of my friends spank their kids...and it is hard when I have to tell them I do not...cause then they seem to judge every little thing my children do with a critical eye...but honestly...since I HAVE spanked my children,I can say 100% that it DOES NOT work! My children behave so much better with gentle training methods and non-yelling communication. I have also found that with spanking, my relationship went from loving and gentle and paitent, to frustrated, annoyed and VERY lazy and impaitent....I have been such a frazzled mother trying to go against what I know is the right way to raise MY kids...but the buck stops here...no more...!


The hardest thing for me is the whole "spare the rod" christian thing...I am a christian and I want to do the right thing biblically( I feel that it is NOT biblical to spank, but then my family pushes the whole spare the rod thingy and I get confused)....so this is a hard thing for me to go against...does anyone have any links to christian sites that tell the whole meaning behind this line of thinking and have scriptures to back up the info, any sites that prove it is NOT biblical?

SO you can see that I have the upbringing that instills hitting kids..and the religious upbringing that does the same...and friends and family that encourage it whole heartedly....and I don't know how I broke the mold..so to speak...lol....but I am different and none of them like it or support it...but they are MY kids..and I will be held accountable by my God for how I raise them.

Sorry I rambled..and probably totally got off topic.. guess I just needed to vent and get it out and off my shoulders...Thanks for listening...really...!

[mama2j&t]

KingsDaugther76~
Here's a start on the rod scriptures
http://www.gentlemothering.com/articles/rodstudy.php

the website it is from (www.gentlemothering.com) is a christian mothering forum. they have a lot more links to resources on this very topic. they also have message boards similar to those here. i think you will be amazed at how 'the rod' is not really meant in the way that most spankers think it is. hopefully you can find some information to encourage you there.

i too was raised with the whole biblical spanking thing. my parents and sister still believe it is the right way to discipline. i have found these articles - like the one i linked - to be very thought provoking, and i am confident that the bible does not command that christians spank their kids

i am sorry that you are in such a stressful place right now. it is great that you are doing what is best for your kids even though it is tough. hang in there!!!!!!

[CartersMomma]

I am sorry that you are going through such an awful time.

I liked this site-----www.aolff.org
Read the articles, they are based off a book called "Biblical parenting". When I first found it, I felt like it was exactly what was in MY heart, that really, would Jesus teach me to hit my child to teach him the right way?!!

I agree with you that spanking does not work. My son responds very well to more gentle, patient, well thought out discipline/teaching. I read another thread in this forum and took some of the suggestions, and its been working really well this last week. I will ask him if he can stop himself from doing whatever it is that he's not supposed to be doing, or if he needs to go sit in his thinking spot for awhile. I know that days I spank or yell it is completely out of anger and frustration.

For a long time I suffered from this expectation that "I am the parent and he should listen to me!" or I am a failure. I also had read the book "Shepherding a childs heart", which is very pro-spanking and that got me all confused!

I'm also going to check out that gentlemothering site......thanks!

Bless you all-----thank you for your honesty.

[KingsDaughter76]

Thank you both for your links...I used to go to that Gentle mothering site and was trying soooo hard to locate it and I come back here to check the thread and there it was!! So cool! I am going to get involved there too! I know I am doing the right thing for my children...I feel SO good about my choices...When you have peace you know you have it right...now I just need everyone to pray for me to stay strong against my family that we have to live with right now.... !


Blessings~

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I too was raised in a very punitive (e.g. abusive) household and so am struggling with the same "little voice" in my head. I have found that my best defense / discipline tool is to walk away when things get out of hand. Especially I have found this is helpful when my child is hitting me. I think there is something wired into those of us who were raised being struck that says "now its finally my turn to be in control" and it makes it much harder for us to be gentle.

So when my son hit me (or screamed at me or whatever), I would just walk away from him. Literally put him down and leave the room. This actually has several advantages. First, it removes any "reward" of attention that the the child might get from hitting you. Second, it gets you away from the situation before you do something that you regret. Third, its a good model for dealing with violence (walk away, don't hit back). It gives everyone a chance to get themselves under control, on their own, which is a good lesson for everyone involved. Finally, it is a response that both parents can do consistantly.

A warning though -- when you try this the first couple of times, expect the child to behave even worse at first. Mine used to run after me and try to hit me again. It does get better quickly though. A friend pointed out that its like a soda machine. When it doesn't give you what you want (for the child, attention), you kick it and shake it before giving up. Kids respond the same way. If you visited my house, you might hear me repeating "coke machine, coke machine" while struggling to ignore behaviour that is unacceptable. But it has really worked in the long term.