Mothering › Forums › Natural Family Living › Spirituality › Religious Studies › new thread--LDS questioning mamas
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

new thread--LDS questioning mamas - Page 10  

post #181 of 197
Leavesarebrown, I'm very sorry . I would say it's unbelievable except that things like this happen all the time! They would rather things like this get swept under the carpet than brought out in the open. Obviously they are trying to silence you. You have every right to be angry.
post #182 of 197
I feel like posting about this on the original thread! No, they would assume there must be some good reason...

Thanks for your supportive words. I am going to get the mandatory reporting laws for VA myself. Then I'll have, in essence, multiple outside sources confirming my decision to report. The director of the assessment center is sending me her letter today (which will be cosigned by the counselor who assessed my ds). There was also the cop I spoke w/ in the sex crimes unit who had worked years as a detective in pedophilia cases who told me absolutely to report, even to the degree that he told me if the dispatch officer did not take my request seriously, to call him back, and he would make sure an officer came out to take the report! Even then it took 2 weeks for them to finally send someone out, but the cop apologized saying the receptionist had screwed up a lot of stuff and even had been fired for it, that's how my message didn't get through the first time. Clearly the police thought I was credible and the situation merited strong protective measures.

The real hot button for the bishop and stake pres is that they told me not to talk about it but I continued to do so, and will make no bones about my refusal to accept a gag order of any kind on this matter.

The worst thing about all of this is the false reassurance members of the congregation who knew about the situation have been given, as well as the heads up it gives perpetrators, alerting them to what behavior raises red flags so they can be even more secretive about it, and get away with it even better.
post #183 of 197
leavesarebrown,

bottom line is, you followed the advice of trained EXPERTS in the law enforcement and mental health fields regarding a serious concern for the safety and well-being of your child. I would do the same thing if I was in that situation. Abuse of any kind MUST be investigated and can not be tolerated. If church disciplinary action can be taken on those grounds, I honestly don't know if I would want to be a part of a spiritual community in denial about children's safety issues. But I completely understand your desire to choose for yourself rather than have that choice taken away from you vis a vis disfellowship or excommunication....

My thoughts are with you as you endure the ignorance and injustice....
post #184 of 197
The disciplinary action is about discussing the situation with others in the ward after I was told to refer anyone with questions to the bishop, not about reporting in the first place. It is my hope that this is simply a result of a misunderstanding about the assessment. They thought it conclusively vindicated this woman, and that that removed the need for precautionary measures. Though if I knew someone had admitted to an urge to gamble, I would not put them in charge of tithing funds!!!! Maybe I'll use that analogy when I talk to the Stake President.
post #185 of 197
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavesarebrown
Don't think I can start a new thread right now. I'm REALLY angry. Found out the stake pres was initiating disciplinary action against me for sharing our legitimate concerns about a potential threat to children in our ward w/ other mothers!!!! I may have delayed the first certified letter by talking to the bishop and making an appointment w/ the stake pres, but just postponed our scheduled meeting (was supposed to be yesterday) 'cause I was still too angry to speak rationally and because I want to get something concrete from the assessment center that assessed our son first so I can hand it to him when I go in as evidence that reporting was not only legitimate, but required by law, and that precautions are still warranted even though the assessment didn't yield overt sexualized behaviors or a specific charge. I cannot describe my rage at the kill the messenger mentality!!! No one wants to face the possibility that "good members of the church" could have problems that disqualify them from church callings involving children!!!!!


I am angry for you. Good for you for protecting your children and the other children, as well.
post #186 of 197
Hello all - I haven't left, I was just unable to post due to regulations on the board. But today is my 2 week anniversary - so they will let me post! ( I was supposed to have 50 post too, but somehow I'm being allowed.) I don't know why I was allowed to post the first time. I will go back and read what I missed -

I did see leavesarebrown's posts - and I'm sorry for what you are going through. It seems to me people are acting on fear, and not the spirit. I would go to a higher level, maybe all the way up and express your concerns. I know you were thinking of leaving anyway - but the issue at hand still needs to be addressed. The "laymen" that are in the priesthood just don't have the skills to cope with what you are talking about. Sure, they can pray and receive guidance, but in all other churches they have licensed therapists etc. to deal with these issues.

When everyone was discussing what they would change - how about an "LDS social worker" assigned to every ward, or stake etc. Someone with the proper training etc. to deal with some of the things we go to our clergy with. Also, once someone becomes a Primary President, Relief Society Pres. YW/YM even Bishop etc. go through types of REQUIRED training. I had to have a background check and 5 hours of training plus be First Aid certified to be a GS leader, why don't our YW leaders need that when they spend more time with our girls than I do as a Girl Scout leader? The assumption that because they are members meaning they will be fine with our kids is kind of ridiculous.

Anyway - I was just excited I could finally post. I'll catch up later and answer a question that was posed to me earlier too....
post #187 of 197
Glad to see you on again Sunmoonstars.

Met with the stake pres today. W/ dh. It was worse than I could have imagined. Yes, this guy has decided (since he's "studied a little psychology") that this is all about me and thinks my "concerns" about this woman are entirely unfounded, even if she did disclose "a dream" or "fleeting thoughts." He was dismissive of the professional view that our concerns were legit and urged extreme caution. And he asked Jesse to leave then proceded to interrogate me to see what sin I'm hiding that's causing me to be "unhappy", then gave me a sheet of quotes about forgiveness, saying I need to forgive my parents regardless of what kind or extent of abuse there was in our home, look at the positives about them, and reconcile with them to find true and lasting peace.
post #188 of 197
Sorry, but :Puke
I am so so so sorry you had to go through that. Sounds terrible. What did you and your dh say?
post #189 of 197
In this particular case, there was no legal or disciplinary action because there are no direct charges. The police report was filed as a "suspicious incident" and they did surveillance on the house. The bishop and stake pres did interview them and they said they haven't "done" anything wrong, though as far as I know the woman acknowledged her disclosures to me.

All we are asking is that they mark their records so they aren't put in church callings w/ kids as a precaution--much like you wouldn't have someone with a gambling compulsion counting the tithing funds. It did seem to be news to the stake president that her disclosure of sexual feelings for babies was not isolated to one dream, as he had been told or led to believe. And he did say the primary responsibility in primary is protection of the kids. But he also expressed the opinion that our concerns about her brother in law were not legitimate based on what he knows about what was reported. Sorry, but law enforcement and all the mental health professionals we consulted disagreed.

Anyway, that's when he sent my dh out so he could interrogate me, and to me seemed to imply that my family background made him suspicious of my motives and my reliability. Dh thinks he sent him out for my own privacy--as if I'm going to be more intimate in what I share with my stake president than with my own husband!!!! Perhaps that's just the protocol for "confessions" which it seems he was hoping to exact.

The thing that gets me is how would any imperfections I might have have any bearing on the veracity of my concerns!

One thing that CLEARLY went well and seemed like divine intervention to me is that the stake president said nothing more about keeping quiet about all of this or about any church disciplinary action. Either he assumed that message had already gotten through loud and clear, or maybe he was simply distracted.
post #190 of 197
yeah, well, at the very least he was CLEARLY distracted from the issue at hand! Hearing your recount of the story reminds me of the shoot the messenger (or the victim) mentality in court cases where suddenly the messenger (witness) or the victim (often in abuse or rape cases) is attacked in order to dissolve their credibility in the eyes of the jury.

It is sad and pathetic that in the year 2004, the LDS church has not learned any lessons on how to adequately address abuse issues. The most important lesson is to learn that church leaders (local or higher up) do NOT have the professional expertise to make judgements in abuse cases. And the fact that they argue they do have the professional expertise/training to address abuse borders on criminal because of the serious ramifications of denial on this serious issue.

You did everything you can to pursue true (non-clergy) professional help, vis a vis mental health profession and law enforcement authorities.

You are an empowered, powerful, strong woman who is well-versed in the scriptures... there's nothing more threatening to a patriarchal institution than that!
post #191 of 197
2much2luv, I loved your vomiting icon dude!! thanks for sharing it. By the way, how have things been going lately for you and dh and slowly moving into less activity in the church? It's amazing, I found that my marital relationship started getting even better once dh and I were completely honest with each other about our issues/concerns/doubts regarding many aspects of church doctrine. It seems this honest disclosure between us helps us more beyond the patriarchy to a more egalitarian marriage....
post #192 of 197
leavesarebrown that sucks! It just upsets me so much that people would act like that. You're nicer than me. I might've slapped him a couple or three times so he would've gotten my message.

Megan
post #193 of 197
More for you, leavesarebrown. At least it ended fairly well.
We are doing just great, mothernurture. We are sort of nervously awaiting a visit from the Bishop or some home teachers. They actually *just* changed some boundaries and we are in a different ward now so I dunno...Dh is actually kind of looking forward to a good debate , but I don't like confrontation of any sort.
post #194 of 197
2much2luv, so glad to hear things are going well for you and your dh. My dh would be happy to never hear from our home teacher or bishop again. In fact, he would really nice to fall through the cracks in the midst of a ward boundary change!
post #195 of 197
:LOL I would be more than happy to fall through the cracks, but I just don't think it will happen because my dh's family is big and rather well known and knowing around here.
post #196 of 197
2 much--well it's not over yet. But thanks all for the supportive words. I liked the puker too.

Let's launch a new thread. I'll call it questioning and former LDS mamas.

See ya'll on the new thread!
post #197 of 197
2much2luv, how have family relations been with your dh's large and devout family since you and your dh have drifted??

leavesarebrown, I like the new thread title. I think it fits well.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Religious Studies
This thread is locked  
Mothering › Forums › Natural Family Living › Spirituality › Religious Studies › new thread--LDS questioning mamas