new thread--LDS questioning mamas - Page 5

[Momof6]

Originally Posted by laralou

I've posted twice to the reasons behind the move. Cynthia moved a questioning thread of another faith to RS from FYT. We discussed it and decided that it was a better for all "questioning threads" to be moved to RS to allow for freer discussion. I am not saying there haven't been complaints in the past but these threads have been allowed to stay for a long time and moving them is not a reaction to the complaints. The main Spirituality forum is a support forum, and this subforum is a place where different faiths can be questioned without violating the guidelines in Spirituality.

If any of you have questions or concerns about the move, please PM myself or Cynthia Mosher.

From the User Agreement:

I posted BEFORE seeing your posts back on the first pages in this thread.

I was not challenging things here....just commenting based on my experiences as a moderator at another online AP parenting community.

Sorry to ruffle anyone up!!! Not my intentions and I did not realize questioning of mod actions was not allowed on the boards. Now I understand the UA and will do better to follow it. I made the mistake of bringing the UA (mentally speaking) from the place I mod at over here and that was not a good move making an assumption that all AP sites are alike in mod/admin stuff, KWIM?

Apologies,

Michelle

[Momof6]

Originally Posted by blondemama

Momof6: ((())) for you and your children. I hope all is well with them medically.

I had my fun for the summer. Now I have six weeks of children being home. I have a special needs child so please pray for me that I'll not be driven into another depression. I get so overwhelmed taking care of her.

L

I want to say hi to everyone else. It's good seeing everyone.

Thanks. We have had a rough summer medically speaking. Really horrible so far.

Anyway, I totally understand your comment about summertime. It is very difficult. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Hugs,
Michelle

[leavesarebrown]

A&A I actually took Pres Hinckley's conference talk right after war broke out as a public statement against the war. He said he didn't feel it was inspired and was distraught over the direction our country is heading. That's pretty critical, IMO. I was glad to hear him so openly questioning. By the same token, it was a bit unsettling to hear him express so much uncertainty. I mean, if a prophet doesn't know the mind and will of the Lord...???

Beth- Interesting, sealing is one thing I don't agree with the way it is taught in the church. My dh just became the second supposedly eternal companion of a widower. Sealed "for time and eternity" just like he was to his first wife. That's polygyny--currently practiced. Not just ancient history. Did ya'll know that the church used to have open weddings like everyone else? It was the practice of polygyny that made them suddenly "private" ceremonies, not the "sacred" nature of marriage, as is currently claimed. Oh, sorry, i'm OT here. You asked what we like and want to keep.

I like the idea of the spirit world being all around us. I like the idea of the universal brother and sisterhood of humankind. I believe life is purposeful. I believe love (charity) is the greatest of all attributes and commandments. I like rituals and ordinances that remind us of our need to connect with our spirits and the spirits of others. I believe in a universal priesthood (blessing others in the name of God). I do like the idea of a female aspect of the Divine, though I don't know what form that takes. I believe in observing prudent health and financial practices and believe that we have an obligation as stewards of the earth that we are botching, and badly. I am surprised the more LDS people are NOT environmentalists. I believe that pride and materialism are terrible cankers that destroy souls. And that judging others is something we are NOT equipt to do (thank God). I believe all of these "doctrines" are in LDS scriptures but not necessarily practiced or understood by LDS people.

I am proud of the courage and hard work of my pioneer ancestors, but I also now understand the perspective of some who persecuted the church. It is pretty unbelievable to me that the church is unaware that this marriage act is exactly the kind of thing that led the the "extermination order" against the Mormons--disgust with other people's marital/ sexual/ familial practices. Mormons were seen as barbaric because polygyny was seen as a morally repugnant practice. Seems obvious, but how often is that mentioned when people extol the "virtues" and patients and longsuffering of Mormon pioneers? Oh, OT again. Sorry 2much. Guess I'm not yet quite ready to "take stock" in the positive way that you are.

[2much2luv]

Interesting, sealing is one thing I don't agree with the way it is taught in the church.

Oh, I didn't mean I agree with "sealings" sorry it came across that way. Just that i believe that some relationships formed here carry on beyond here (if we want them to) and originated before here. Some people have that closeness with a spouse, some have it with a sister or friend. I happen to feel that my dh and I are soul mates.

Sorry 2much. Guess I'm not yet quite ready to "take stock" in the positive way that you are.

No problem at all. Just something to think about.

[2much2luv]

I actually took Pres Hinckley's conference talk right after war broke out as a public statement against the war. He said he didn't feel it was inspired and was distraught over the direction our country is heading.

I also really enjoyed all the "antiWar" statements I had been hearing from the presidency. I thought they were on to something there.

Those who have left the church, how have your dhs dealt with it? My dh is a lifelong member and I feel so bad for him. It is hard on me dealing with all these feelings about the church, but I can't imagine how hard it is on him. When he read that article yesterday that A&A posted he looked just hearbroken in a way. He hasn't gone to church or mentioned anything about it in 3 weeks. I am glad that he is seeing things in much the same way that I am, but I feel bad for him. I have been kind of not talking about it too much, letting him come to his own conclusions and not forcing him to talk about it too much. I guess i just want to hear that he'll be ok in the end. I feel like *I* in a way am forcing him to give up a part of himself. Of course he is in charge of himself and all, but I still feel a bit bad...

[A&A]

Originally Posted by leavesarebrown

My dh just became the second supposedly eternal companion of a widower. Sealed "for time and eternity" just like he was to his first wife.

I'm sorry my brain isn't working here..........who got sealed to whom? Were you a widow previously? (Because the word "widower" refers to a man.) Anyway, perhaps you could clear this up for me. Just curious.


And there were a few comments made by individuals about the war that could be construed as anti-war, but no official "statement" made by the church. It just carries more weight when the church PR guy issues the "statement." They certainly haven't felt the need to issue a "statement" against the war, even though (IMHO) that is far more immoral than gay people deciding to marry each other. (And I remember one member of the seventy--can't place his name though--who was made to retract some strong anti-war comments he made.)

Let's see......positives.........hmmmm..........I like the sense of community that I felt when I was active. I miss that.

2much2luv, my dh has never been a member, so my becoming inactive is actually better for him. I know it must be tough for those of you with active LDS spouses. It's interesting you didn't hear about that "statement" until I mentioned it--I wonder if the LDS experience is different outside of Utah? Probably. I don't think you're forcing your dh to lose part of himself. It sounds like you are growing/changing together.

[2much2luv]

I wonder if the LDS experience is different outside of Utah?

Oh definately.

[leavesarebrown]

oops!

I meant my dh's mother. So my mil. He he.

[Nemmer]

Originally Posted by Momof6

One more comment. Earlier in this discussion, someone mentioned a husband accepting a calling for a wife? Well, back when we were active, my husband was approached about a calling that they were considering offering to me but wanted his permission first since it was one with larger responsibility. I thought this was normal and at the time, being the good LDS woman, never raised an eyebrow at how it was handled.

Just wanted to comment that whenever either DH or I have been offered callings, the spouse is always told of it first. It has been explained this way -- "We would like to extend this calling to your spouse. Will you sustain him/her in that? (And sometimes they have asked if we feel the spouse is worthy of it, to our knowledge)" It has happened with every calling we have been offered. So the "asking permission" goes both ways, and I don't think is meant to be discriminatory, although it could appear that way. Now, the husband accepting a calling in behalf of a wife seems very inappropriate to me.

[leavesarebrown]

Nemmer--the spouse is told FIRST? I think that is BEYOND obnoxious. Can't a person decide for themselves? You know, when the bishop of our new ward called me in to see if I would feel about accepting a calling and I asked if our records had arrived yet, he commented that they ask about willingness first because they wouldn't want "to put someone in the awkward position of having to say 'no.'" What is so "awkward" about saying "no"?

[bloobug]

Very interesting day.
My old visiting teaching companion just had a baby. I decided that it would be the right thing to do to make some oatmeal bars and give her a card. Well, let me first say I wore a tank top and my goddess pentacle necklace today. She took one look at me as I walked in her house and lowered her eyes to the floor. She didn't make eye contact with me once the whole time. And her mom actually left the room and sat in the kitchen. I honestly don't feel bad about it at all. It's their choice to act like that. But anyway. It kind of stinks to leave the church when 9 1/2 out of 10 neighbors are LDS.

Hope everyone else is well. I'm going to run through all the posts I haven't had a chance to read.

Megan

[leavesarebrown]

That really would stink. Tell me about your necklace!

[2much2luv]

How insanely rude!

[laralou]

Originally Posted by Momof6

I posted BEFORE seeing your posts back on the first pages in this thread.

I was not challenging things here....just commenting based on my experiences as a moderator at another online AP parenting community.

Sorry to ruffle anyone up!!! Not my intentions and I did not realize questioning of mod actions was not allowed on the boards. Now I understand the UA and will do better to follow it. I made the mistake of bringing the UA (mentally speaking) from the place I mod at over here and that was not a good move making an assumption that all AP sites are alike in mod/admin stuff, KWIM?

Apologies,

Michelle

No, my apologies, Michelle! I was having an emotional day, and it ended with me feeling attacked. I overreacted.

Please know that you can certainly question anything we do, just do it via PM or in the Questions and Suggestions forum. If anyone disagrees with my decisions, feel free to let me or a comod or Cynthia know and we can talk it out. I can certainly make mistakes (and have as a member and a mod). *Most* of the time I don't take it personally.

[blondemama]

For crying out loud I can't believe that happened to you Bloobug. I guess I have an advantage. I grew up for the first part of my life in Colorado, then moved to Utah for a few crappy years and now have resided in Nevada for the past 6 1/2 years. I've been around nonlds most of my life. Peoples differences don't faze me one bit. But then again, thats probably why all of my friends are nonlds people. And I do envy your tanktop. I look hot in one.

The ward I'm in now must have a railroad track all to it's own when it comes to callings. I didn't even know my husband had a calling. Everyone left me completely in the dark about it. My husband told me on the way home from California that he would be doing activities on saturdays. We have one vehicle folks. I'm home with my children who are out of school with no vehicle. And my husband announces that he's going to be taking the vehicle to do activities on saturdays. I put my foot down. He can't do that to me or the children. It's 110 outside. We will get cabin fever staying in this house 7 days a week while my husband goes and has a nice life.

All the other wards I've been in they called the husband and wife in together and explained the calling. And made sure it was acceptable to both of them. I think that is a good way to do it.

[leavesarebrown]

Okay, I can see making sure a calling is going to work out logistically for the family, but is that really the way/ reason husband and wife are "called in" together when it IS done that way? I wonder what the handbook says on this. The thing that bugs me is if the spouse who is NOT being "called" is the one asked FIRST if they MIND if the other one does it. Blondemama, I think I'd be mad at my husband, not the bishop, on that one. Could you establish a standing "rule" not to make commitments of any kind w/out checking it out w/ the other first to make sure there aren't conflicts? That's kinda what we do, since we're also a one-car family. And it's worked out pretty well, since we try to accommodate eachother's desired activities/commitments whenever possible. Couldn't that work for callings, too?

[leavesarebrown]

I wanted to go back the a comment someone else made earlier about their bishop or someone implying that their alternative parenting would lead to "apostasy". I actually think there might be some truth to that, depending on your definition of apostasy. But I see it as a positive.

Becoming a mother definitely made more of a feminist of me, made me more independent, made me more aware of my own strength and responsibility for the welfare of my own children, made me more dubious of the ability of societal institutions to know what's best for me and my family moreso that I can discern myself, etc. etc. These all have the potential to lead to questioning hierarchies and "traditions" that seem detrimental rather than growth-promoting. I used to believe it was possible to simply come to a "higher understanding" of the truth/ grow in the gospel/ outgrown warped versions of the gospel but remain in it (ie that questioning need not lead one away, but simply create redefinition) and I know that is still a possibility for some people (looks like my husband may be one of them). But these other issues have really changed some of my prior views.

[2much2luv]

I'd be upset too, blondemama. I am glad you set your dh straight on that one.
I'm not really offended about how they handled our calling. What happened is...the guy came to us and asked if he could speak with us after church. When he walked away I told dh I would rather not speak with him and for him to just go ahead and see what they want and then ask me. So he went and talked with him and came and told me what they wanted us to do. I was sort of ok with it and dh said that unless we said something that they would announce it next week. I thought that was kind of strange. I do think he (the councilor) should have made sure it was ok with me before he did it and not taked dhs word on it. But anyway, I don't really care either way.
It is kind of strange to ask the spouse first. I have never seen it done that way, They always just asked us at the same time.

[blondemama]

Thats what I meant when two people went in at the same time for one to recieve a calling. The spouse was not asked first on behalf of the other spouse. They were both told at the same time what was wanted. And to clear any problems anyone might have.

Leavesarebrown: I've already explained to my husband many times of my childrens and my needs. I've already told him to stop volunteering for so many things. He needs to be home with the family. My kids need a break from me as much as I need a break from them. My husband has so many activities and commitments that I can't make any of my own. Also, I stopped going to any activities the night that I came home to find all the food storage cans labels being ripped off. My husband just sat there and said that the kids were being quiet so it was o.k. I usually come home to a huge mess that I have to clean up so it's not worth it for me to leave the kids with him. My husband has a life at my expense. And no amount of talking, pleading, begging is not going to change anything. I'm upset at both the bishop and my husband. My bishop and ward for caving into the gossip and shutting me out while demanding that my husband take care of all their needs. And my husband for just being my husband.

The man that accused the ap mother of going down the road of apostasy could have felt threatened. Thats probably how I would've taken it if it had happened to me. The fact that I have learning ablility tells me that I have a duty to use that ability. I think it's sad that people think gaining knowledge and gaining freedom through that knowledge is apostasy.

[A&A]

Just a comment about the dads/husbands being gone all of the time-- my dad was the bishop, and then the stake president. He was gone all of the time with OTHER people's families. He also traveled a lot for his job. So my mom pretty much raised us by herself.