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My kid got kicked out of the zoo for a shirt ! - Page 10

post #181 of 374
I think the responsability is on the people that are offended by a shirt to not use it as an excuse for violence.
post #182 of 374
Actually I remember hearing that it is against the law in Germany to wear nazi stuff, right?! They restrict free speech in that area (though they are all good with nudity and curse words )

I could be wrong, but I remember hearing that. So no nee dto rip some guys shirt off, just call the cops and have him arrested.

The hoochie clouths anology is false because women DO NOT get raped or sexually attacked because of the clouthes they wear. Sexual assault is about power - women who are in a powerless situation get attacked. Believe me, boys in jr. high left the short skirt wearing popular girls alone and grabbed the butts/said inappropriate things to the less popular girls (no matter what they are wearing - me in baggy jeans and prairie skirts) who they could harrass with impunity.

Fun, all over the place thread this is. Every topic under teh sun I think will fit in here some place
post #183 of 374
Keep in mind that the whole violence issue is hypothetical in this situation.
post #184 of 374
No, I'm not talking about the way it would be ideally. I'm talking about the way it is in reality.

This is from the LLL site:

"Mothers have a right to breastfeed where they go with their baby, even if that is out in public. It does not matter whether the mother goes to a public or a private place, or even whether they are in a state with legislation. No one has the right to tell a mother how to feed her baby, especially a way that increases the risk of illness to both mother and baby! Legislation has been enacted in nearly one-half of the states in the U.S. because they want to clarify this right, and in some cases, provide a remedy for mothers told to stop breastfeeding. It is hoped that legislation will help to change society's attitudes that breastfeeding is something indecent and should not be done in public. Underlying this, is the goal to increase the rates and duration of breastfeeding recognizing that this is an important health choice that must be encouraged.



"It is important to remember that women have a right to breastfeed in public whether there is a law or not. The purpose of legislation is NOT to legalize it, but to clarify the fact that women have the right to breastfeed in public, or that it is not a criminal offense, such as indecent exposure. Thus, if you are in a state that does not have legislation, you still have the right to feed your baby where you go."


The First Amendment does not say "freedom to speak out against the government." It says "freedom of speech." If the framers had meant "freedom to speak out against the government," that's what they would have written. I'm certain they understood the difference and that they phrased the amendment deliberately.
post #185 of 374
maybe you missed our lengthy and heated thread on clothing and rape?? Some people do believe that there is a relationship between clothes and rape, which is why I referenced our previous thread.

What we call the swastika has a history dating back a couple thousand years and spanning many different cultures. Until the Natzis appropriated it for themselves and their horrendous plans it was a symbol that represented many different things, none of them evil. My understanding is that there is support by some groups to reclaim the symbol back to it's original meaning. So I wouldn't assume that someone wearing the symbol was a white supremist or natzi supporter.
post #186 of 374
Keep in mind that the whole violence issue is hypothetical in this situation.



Threatening to remove someones clothing if they don't remove it themselves is not hypothetical. And I do consider it to be an act of violence and intimidation.
post #187 of 374
why would you want your child to wear that shirt? I"m not bashing, I just don't see why you would want to put that message out there?
post #188 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by indie
I don't know why you would let your kid wear that shirt in the first place.

My thoughts exactly.
post #189 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
maybe you missed our lengthy and heated thread on clothing and rape?? Some people do believe that there is a relationship between clothes and rape, which is why I referenced our previous thread.
Yea, I quit reading that thread because clearly I was in the minority and clearly no one was changing thier belief that hoochie clouthes put girls at risk (if it was only so easy to lesson the risk).

But I did want to note that skimpy clouthes is not like advertising that you are gay in that advertising that you are gay just might invite assault in some places, wearing halter tops won't.

Everyone keeps saying what they'd think of the parents if they saw a 7 year old kid wearing a t-shirt with swear words. I thought about it and realized that swear words are such a non-issue for me that I wouldn't base my opinion at all on that evidence. I can't even say I'd think the parents were laid back or something. For me it would be like making a determination about the parents based on the fact the kid was wearing sandals.

(Not that I wouldn't look at them and put them into some box or other - I need to work on that : but it would be based on something other than the shirt, maybe haircuts - you can tell a lot about a person based on their hair cut)
post #190 of 374
OK so I get that some of you don't see the shirt as aggressive but would you agree that it is a negative message. I want to see my family giving off positive messages rather than negative. After all there is already so much negativity out there, why add to it?
post #191 of 374
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post #192 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmsmommy
After all there is already so much negativity out there, why add to it?


This is what it boils down to for me. Really, I don't care if the kid wears the tee-shirt. I'm not going to be offended by the tee-shirt. But for me and my family, I'm going to do what I can to put positive messages out there in the universe. I'm going to work my hardest to model behavior I want to see in the world, and respect for ones self and others is one of those behaviors.
post #193 of 374
I'm sorry maybe it's me. Did I miss the part where the security gaurd ripped the kids shirt off? No, he was asked to leave and rightfully so. In the OP situation violence was not an issue. Another post brought up the issue of violence, I was trying to point that out in order to keep to the topic.




ok so you clearly knew that I wasn't referring to the OP but to another post in this thread and then you imply that you didn't with this "Did I miss the part where the security gaurd ripped the kids shirt off? No, he was asked to leave and rightfully so."

??????????

nevermind.....................
post #194 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgmsmommy
OK so I get that some of you don't see the shirt as aggressive but would you agree that it is a negative message. I want to see my family giving off positive messages rather than negative. After all there is already so much negativity out there, why add to it?
This is what I have been saying all along. With all the anger and frustration and aggression in the world wouldn't it be so much better if a message of love and hope and peace be offered?

To satisfy the swearers in the crowd...How about this one:

This shit rocks!
post #195 of 374
For the non-swearers:

Bring on the love!
post #196 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arduinna
What we call the swastika has a history dating back a couple thousand years and spanning many different cultures. Until the Natzis appropriated it for themselves and their horrendous plans it was a symbol that represented many different things, none of them evil. My understanding is that there is support by some groups to reclaim the symbol back to it's original meaning. So I wouldn't assume that someone wearing the symbol was a white supremist or natzi supporter.
I would assume that anyone wearing a swastika to a concentration camp is doing it to incite violence by demonstrating support of the nazi party. I may not assume such a thing if the person is wearing it to a grocery store.

I'm not saying that my brother was right to confront the guy. But the other guy was showing a blatant disrespect to hundreds of people, many of them actively and emotionally mourning the loss of their loved ones. I think my brother did the right thing. Technically (or should I say "legally") it might not have been (didn't know about the German law that forbids swastikas, have to check on that one!) but morally I think it was. Perhaps some grown man whose entire family was wiped out in the holocaust didn't have to see someone wearing a swastika that day because of what my brother did.
post #197 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by kama'aina mama
Hhmm... I find it interesting that everyone is worked up about the word fuck and no one cares about the intrinsic cultural insensitivity. I have mixed feelings about you being forced to leave. They probably do 'reserve the right to deny service' blah blah blah... and the shirt was indecent by some standards. An opportunity to turn it inside out or a refund should have been offered. IMO a business has the right, within legal limits, to insist that you not destroy the atmosphere on which heir livlihood depends.
ITA and I feel the "Chinese" part borders on hate speech and is definitely culturally insensitive. Abercrombie and Fitch loves to sell shirts that make fun of cultural stereotypes, pedophilia, and other lovely things.

I am thankful for the ACLU, but to me the idea of parents suing for the rights of their 7 year old to wear clothing with the F-word is a joke.
post #198 of 374
Since he wasn't asked I guess we will never know.
post #199 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mom

To satisfy the swearers in the crowd...How about this one:

This shit rocks!
Hey, you're cute

How about: F*ckin'-AThis Sh*t Rocks!!"
post #200 of 374
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