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My kid got kicked out of the zoo for a shirt ! - Page 3

post #41 of 374
6/21/04 at 3:12pm
I agree with mountain mom. I would feel my rights were not taken into consideration if my 7 yr old, who's been reading since he was 5, asked me what that meant. Sure, I wouldn't have to explain it to him, but I wouldn't want him to repeat it either. And *I* feel it is belittling to the chinese community.
To compare profanity with breastfeeding is ridiculous, IMO. 2 different issues, entirely.
Just curious here, not accusatory, but if your child were in a playground or some such thing, and something upset him, would he use these words? I'm just wondering because you said his response to being forced to leave was "f*ck their rules". Do you teach him the responsibilty that goes with being able to use such words? Just because you allow it and see no harm in it, doesn't mean everyone will be so liberal, you know?
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post #42 of 374
6/21/04 at 3:14pm
If I were the guard, I would have asked him to turn it inside out or change. If you refused, you would have had to leave. Come on, it's the zoo. You're not at a concert or a bar. You were at the zoo.
post #43 of 374
6/21/04 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow
Piglet- I was trying to stay off of the "is it offensive" part of the post to focus on the "is it legal" part of asking them to leave.
I read your post after I posted mine. I probably should have done what you did.

I didn't want this to turn into a bashing of the OP, but it is hard not to be shocked at this situation of allowing a young child out in a shirt like that.

I guess what I'd want the OP to know is that I can see why such a shirt would be banned, that these sorts of values are not mine, but that doesn't make them any more "right" or "wrong", so I'm not trying to pass judgement, just give my 2 cents'...

The real issue is, as others have said, whether these rules were posted clearly where people purchase their tickets (and if not, I think a refund would have been in order) and also how the OP and her family were treated (rules can be enforced without undue harrassment).
post #44 of 374
6/21/04 at 3:52pm
I'm totally in agreement with ya piglet- very rational

Jyust sort of off topic. My DH is part japanese- reads and writes japanese. He gets annoyed at the mindless use of calligraphy- but he saw one once that said something a long the lines of "coconut head" And by the looks of the rest of teh shirt it didn't seem to be intentional. He was laughing SO hard.
post #45 of 374
6/21/04 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piglet68
How the OP and her family were treated (rules can be enforced without undue harrassment).
I think that this should be commmented on. I believe the kind of attitude or 'energy' you put out into the world is the kind you will recieve back.

That t-shirt is clearly aggressive so I would have to say that by putting that message out there....you are gonna get attitude back. What else do you expect?

What was the initial motivation to wear the tshirt? Its not like you are spreading love and kindness.
post #46 of 374
6/21/04 at 6:51pm
k
post #47 of 374
6/21/04 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mom
That t-shirt is clearly aggressive so I would have to say that by putting that message out there....you are gonna get attitude back. What else do you expect?[/b]


Thank you, mountain mom. I've been trying to put my finger on the major irksome factor about this situation and I think you've just done it.

Wear what you want, I suppose, but don't be surprised when people act in kind. I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think it's pretty irresponsible to allow a child to wear such a shirt. It puts them in an unfair position where they're likely to be exposed to behavior directed their way that they're not ready to effectively handle.
post #48 of 374
6/21/04 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by my~hearts~light
If the OP had gone to someones home rather than the zoo, a private place where you should be aware that you don't get to make the rules, would they have been as offended if that someone asked them to take their trashy crap out of their home? What about out of their bookstore, daycare center, church, ice cream parlor................. When you enter an establishment or place other than your home or a truly public place you ought to be respectful of others and comply with what you would expect the rules to be wether you can see them posted clearly.
ITA. I am by no means overly-sensitive, a prude, nor do I offend easily. But the t-shirt is in bad taste, on anyone.
post #49 of 374
6/21/04 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mom
Flame me if you will. I think profanity is a sign of ignorance.
Well, I think being uptight about profanity is a sign of ignorance.

(I swear all the time and am not ignorant just as you, who doesn't curse, are not ignorant; so enough with saying that people who think differently than you are showing their stupidity)

That said, the shirt probably falls into the inappropriate catagory. My kids can wear whatever they want (swear words shirts, hootchie skirts, whatever), but I will forewarn them about the consequences of dressing inappropriately (people will, at best, give you disapproving looks for not dressing the way other people are dressed for the occasion; at worst you will be harrassed and asked to leave). In this case, I would have encouraged him to change before the zoo and let him suffer the consequences if he didn't (i.e. he has to wear the shirt inside out or watch his family's day at the zoo be squelshed).
post #50 of 374
6/21/04 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow
I'm totally in agreement with ya piglet- very rational

Jyust sort of off topic. My DH is part japanese- reads and writes japanese. He gets annoyed at the mindless use of calligraphy- but he saw one once that said something a long the lines of "coconut head" And by the looks of the rest of teh shirt it didn't seem to be intentional. He was laughing SO hard.

:LOL

I know what you mean. My cousin just got a tattoo with japanese letters...I can't remember what they mean. I asked him, are you sure that means what you think it means....It could be japanese for jack ass you know.
post #51 of 374
6/21/04 at 8:42pm
Quote:
My son said "Fuck their policies!" and i agreed with him ! LOL !
Are you going to agree with him when that attitude extends to the law when he reaches driving age? Do you agree with that attitude when you and your DH make a rule for your family?

Much as I don't follow many aspects of mainstream culture, I also think that teaching children total disregard for rules or laws or respecting others' feelings is not funny, nor is it doing that child any favors in the long run.
post #52 of 374
6/21/04 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
Well, I think being uptight about profanity is a sign of ignorance.

(I swear all the time and am not ignorant just as you, who doesn't curse, are not ignorant; so enough with saying that people who think differently than you are showing their stupidity)
I just want to clarify....If one use swear words to describe something or how they feel I think that that is a sign that their vocabulary could use some work.

Ignorance can be defined as not knowing any better. Is it better to communicate with foul language than without.

Do you encourage your children to describe something or their emotions with profanity?

It is your choice to swear, I would just hope that you do not perpetuate this onto your children.
post #53 of 374
6/21/04 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mom
I just want to clarify....If one use swear words to describe something or how they feel I think that that is a sign that their vocabulary could use some work.
Nope, I have a wonderful vocab (belied by the use of a vague word like wonderful" ). Swear words can be expressive and creative. I said this before in another thread - my dad has a Ph.D. in modern American poetry and a potty mouth. Many of his English professor friends curse like crazy.

Great works of literature, by authors whose entire lives are vocab words, are full of swear words

Ok, back to the thread at hand . . . :
post #54 of 374
6/21/04 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mom
Do you encourage your children to describe something or their emotions with profanity?

It is your choice to swear, I would just hope that you do not perpetuate this onto your children.
Oh wow, somehow missed the second part of this. I will encoruage my kids to articulate what they feel as best they can however they feel works best (it is their emotion, afterall). Using swear words doesn't prevent anyone from knowing/using other words. Now, my kids can't call people names (including stupid), and you have to be aware of what is and isn't appropiate in different situations, but otherwise, my saying swear words my entire life (parents never censored us except to say we shouldn't curse in public) hasn't prevented me from being able to articuate my emotions in very nuanced ways in a myrid of situations.

Again, using swear words doesn't prevent anyone from knowing/using other words. And again, back to thread :
post #55 of 374
6/21/04 at 9:07pm
In your case using profanity did not interfere with building your vocabulary.

But in reference to the thread....its a seven year old boy wearing a t-shirt with the f word on it and being encouraged to express himself about being kicked out of the zoo by using the same expression.

I think that is ignorant. There are better lessons to teach a child.

The more I think of the original post the more I think its gotta be a joke! No one in their right of mind would encourage a child to wear a shirt like that to the zoo or anywhere really, and when kicked out for it, to come back by saying "fuck the rule"???? Wheres the respect in that.
post #56 of 374
6/21/04 at 9:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain mom
The more I think of the original post the more I think its gotta be a joke!
Yea, I thought it was a little over the top. But with 54 posts - a lot for a joke.

I do tend to side with the OP, only because parenting (whatever the parenting philosophy) seems to have gotten so uptight lately. When I grew up (elementary school in late seventies), no one was so hysterical about protecting kids from offensive t-shirts. Guess I'm feeling nostalgic . . .

Of course, I won't let my kids watch Disney, so I'm being a little bit of a hypocrite
post #57 of 374
6/21/04 at 9:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamawanabe
I do tend to side with the OP, only because parenting (whatever the parenting philosophy) seems to have gotten so uptight lately. When I grew up (elementary school in late seventies), no one was so hysterical about protecting kids from offensive t-shirts. Guess I'm feeling nostalgic . . .

Of course, I won't let my kids watch Disney, so I'm being a little bit of a hypocrite
I totally get you on that one!!! I would rather dd hear a swear than sit through some of the sacharrin thats out there.

Peace mama
post #58 of 374
6/21/04 at 9:21pm
post #59 of 374
6/21/04 at 9:27pm
First, the topic at hand: your son's rights were not violated. Your son does not have the right to do something that violates the policies of a private establishment, and that establishment need not have their policies posted in order to enforce them. They can't make up policies on the spot to discriminate against your son in specific, but in this case, a vague "inappropriate attire" or even vaguer "inappropriate conduct" is sufficient to cover clothing. They do not owe you a refund or a chance to rectify the situation. They are well within their rights to ask you to leave for violating their policies (and said policies would seem self-evident in this case).

Next, the topic not at hand: What are you teaching your child if you allow him to enjoy the demeaning of another culture? What are you teaching your child if you allow him to belittle the regulations that others are legally entitled to implement? What are you teaching your child if you tell him (directly or indirectly) that language that can and often is used as a weapon against others is appropriate for any situation at all? What are you teaching your child if you raise him to believe that his "right" to make others uncomfortable is more important to a viable and healthy society than his responsibility to be a constructive force in said society?

Why would you place your seven-year-old son in the position to receive the vitriol of those who find the message on his shirt offensive? He's a very little child. My personal opinion is that you are stealing his innocence by forcing him to confront these issues too soon.

I can't conceive of *any* circumstance in which a child sporting powerful, hurtful, vulgar words would be considered "adorable." Words are not just words, they are the means by which we shape our consciousness, so to claim that those of us who are offended by them are just prude is incorrect. People wouldn't use swear words if they didn't have power, and the power of swear words does not lie in their fostering of a positive climate.

I agree with the poster who stated that people have become so caught up in their rights that they forget that their responsibilities are *equally* important. And with the poster who stated that common sense would indicate that swear words are not acceptable at a children's function.

Wilma

**Sorry for the empty post. Dandamomma is my SIL, and I didn't know she was still logged in.**
post #60 of 374
6/21/04 at 9:39pm
I still hold that being ejected for violating a policy that the individual was violating at the time his money was taken warrents arefund. If he had smuggled the shirt in and put it on after buying his ticket to intentionally thwart a policy that would be one thing... but he had the shirt on when they admitted him. If it was in violation his money should never have been taken and he should not have been let in. If the zoo wants to rectify half of that oversight, they really need to rectify the whole thing.
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