Farenheit 9/11 what did you think - Page 3

[NotQuiteJuneCleaver]

Originally Posted by Bethla

My dh and I can't wait to see this movie. I love your saying too about Jesus. Thank you for speaking your mind! Why don't you run for office!

TOO MANY skeletons in my closet!!! AND because I let people get to me too easily. Just visit some other threads and see how idiotic and juvenile I can become when I get really pissed. I get emotional and as heart felt as things are with me - I can be brutal and hateful at times. I rarely candy coat anything. Those don't go well with public speaking and such.

[Dov]

Originally Posted by Tracy

http://www.iht.com/articles/526613.html

Here's Frank Rich making a good point, which is that the insinuations of Michael Moore aren't all that different from the insinuations of John Ashcroft.

This sentiment might hold more water with me if Frank Rich actually made relevant and credible arguments. He relies on the same misinformation that Hitchens levels at Moore. Rich is the kind of "journalism" no one needs... repeat a half-truth and lie often enough eventually it'll become true. If anything MM didn't play fast and loose with facts, he merely presented the tip of the iceberg in a large volume of fact in ways that skew more towards entertainment than sober journalism... which Moore has never pretended to be anyway. The only thing I'd agree with is that Ashcroft is indeed a threat to the nation. Oops Moore says that too... I must be delusional then... Ashcroft is our friend.

[kama'aina mama]

That's fine NM... If you don't want to see it for whatever reason, that is fine. But let me remind you, if I may, about conversations about the Passion. There were threads discussing the general hub-bub, press commentary, etc... and there were threads that were for discussing the movie itself. Many people requested (and reasonably so) that people who had not seen the film refrain from posting heresay and the opinions of others in those particular threads. That is all I am asking here. If you want to start a seperate thread and discuss de-constructions of the film or the reception it has gotten in the press... Cool! Do that. But out of respect for the fact that many, many posters (though admittedly not all) refrained from crashing those threads I would respectfully ask that people who haven't seen F:9/11 and have nothing to say about it in their own words not post here.

[CAmomto1]

Originally Posted by Nursing Mother

I have no problem with it being an opinion piece (as it is)....what I have a problem with is the way MM can deceive my editing and manipulating conversations to make people look dumb, stupid, or even anti-Bush when maybe so much is being left out. (and I've seen information suggesting that)

But you haven't seen the movie, so how can you say you have problem with it?

Maybe after you've seen it, whenever that may be, you can share firsthand why you think it's laughable and inaccurate. I suspect the trusted people with whom you've been discussing this that have already seen the movie may be blinded by hate, or loyalty. Maybe I'm wrong, but the tone of your post suggests that.

[kama'aina mama]

It would be disingenious to try to say Moore does not manipulate images. I found it interesting to note exactly who said specifically that Iraq and Al Quida are connected and who he implied said it. He has nice long cuts of Condi Rice and Dick Cheney both saying very clearly that there is a connection and he edits Bush and Powell into the montage in such a way as to imply that they said it too. But it is telling that he could not find them saying it... because I can all but guarantee that if they said it clearly and specifically anywhere he would have included it. It was the longer clips I found the most interesting. Rumsfeld saying "We know RIGHT where the WMD's are. They are in and around Baghdad and also to the north, south, east and west." ... aaaahh. Yes.

[isleta]

When I saw this film I thought that my family would not see it-some ofthe people I work with won't see it. Why? Because of what "they heard" about MM.

After the film my thoughts were my family is better than this, my co-workers are better than this and my nation is better than this...administration.

It does show real interviews with real people and it should, like all documentaries be taken with a grain of salt. However, if you have been following this administration there is no new revelation-just another piece of evidence.


It has been posted here before, but most of what was presented I have read or was aware of and it is MM way of showing these events. Whether you agree or disagree with MM it is a film that should be seen-even for a dollar!

I think this will not be history in the near future. My children and grandchildren will be paying for this man's inability to govern and giving the orders for a pre-emptive strike against a soverign nation. Even though, it seems he could not give orders or speak to Americans when Sept. 11 happened. But, I had not heard of the book before! It was kinda cute.

[isleta]

That was a good cut Kama'aina mama-Rumsfeld what a hoot!

I was also still shocked by how much influence the house of saud has over our country. I mean they own what 7 % of the US! It was intersting where all the saudi players were on 9/11.

I also agree on MM way of filming. I too could pull parts out and analyze them-that's one reason why I like his work. He makes me think and research questions that arise while watching. Then, I can come to my own decisions.

An eye-opener for some of my friends to this day is the bombing of Kosovo during the "affair" And in Bowling for Columbine" he and Marilyn Manson discuss Clinton's actions.

It seems that some belief that people who lean left follow and believe what MM says like some sheep. From this thread I would say that is a false statement. I wish that some that do not have the same political leanings as me would see the film so we could discuss it! But, my dad says he sees what the two guys give two thumbs up for and they gave it two thumbs up!:LOL Has not run out to see the film however

[Lucysmama]

At the whole "I don't wanna give MM any of my money, so I'll just let other people make up my mind for me!" metality. Way to think for yourself!



What MM is going to make on your $8.00 movie ticket is pennies compared to what the Bush administration is going to make if they get re-elected by the brainwashed masses.

[kama'aina mama]

Can we have different opinions without mocking and being rude?

[purplegirl]

Originally Posted by FromRoseCottage

women/mothers who support this idiot Bush. And to the moderators - is it name calling if it is true? If I am not allowed to point to the idiot let me know and I will remove it. I could change it to SOB because that is true as well. The more I read here the more irate I become. The women who subscribe to what mothering supports IN PRINT used to be --well noticeable. You could pick them out of a crowd. NEVER "back in the day" would you have seen a NIXON bumpersticker on a mothering car. NO way NO how. Mothering folks all felt the same. Love your children, don't hurt them and don't let others hurt them. Well GWB is going to hurt our children people! He already is. He is killing our friends, our neighbors, our husbands and wives, our sons and daughters - and he wants to send more to die. The bastard.

I hardly ever post here because those who support Bush do nothing but piss me off. If they can't see the little cowboy for what he really is, I simply don't understand why. Yeah I know I am being a bitch but I am also being an honest one.

NO, I don't LOVE Kerry. But is he evil??? I don't think so. Is GWB - well I think the writing is on the wall. Yeah, yeah, you are entitled to your opinion but my god! What does he have to do? Really, I think that is a valid question. I am not campaigning for Kerry but I sure as hell am campaigning AGAINST Bush. So far I have 4 who have changed their minds. I am going after the hard sales. The Baptist preachers and their wives. They in turn will go out and spread the word. That's what they do for a living isn't it?

I am not going to see F9-11 in the theater. I will wait and buy a copy of the dvd and watch it in my home. Where I can shut the door to my room and swear and cry and hate him even more. My husband supports that - I don't think he wants to go with me. He doesn't like it when I get my blood pressure up over this or anything else. And in public would be worse. He told me just last night he hasn't talked to anyone anywhere who feels about Bush like I do.

It scares the hell out of me that I live in a community and visit this community with people who think this shit in Iraq is okay. "Was the right thing to do" "Is part of the war on terrorism" BullSH*T. Plain and simple BULLSH*T. I know most politicians have a couple of things in their past they would like to keep in the past but MY GOD people look at GWB's past! And for godsakes look at his present too.

I don't believe the religious believe you should do anything against your conscience. But even the LEAST religious should see this administration for the filthy thing it is. How can you believe this man is 'one of you'? Seriously what leads you to believe that? Doesn't your bible say you know a tree by its fruit? Well his fruit STINKS. Dick Cheney. His daughters. His war. His mouth. His smirk. His lies. I think the bible also says the root of ALL evil is the LOVE of money. And if you don't think this war is about money you seriously need counseling. Reality is a pretty scary place. And things are about to get real if GWB takes the vote in November and I will be shocked if he doesn't, he stole it once and it was pretty damn easy. I hear it only gets easier to do evil things. Can you even imagine? I am certainly not a bible thumper but even I can see Bush has changed everything. It is the end of the world as we knew it. Armeggedon? Naw. Hell on Earth? absolutely. We are never going to know peace again. Never. He has seen to that.

Right on my sista-mama! We need an uprising of civil minded folks to stand up against the "axis of evil" . Little did we know he would be in our own backyard.

[Lucysmama]

kama-

:LOL Probably not! Sorry anyone, if I am offending you...I'm trying. It's very frustrating. I remember this happening with "The Passion" too.


I'd love to hear more opinions from anyone else who has seen the movie!

AND.....did ya'll know that the projected gross for the movie for the weekend is now around $21 million?!?! That is more than BFC made in its entire run, which held the record for documentary feature gross!

Is anyone going to MoveOn.org's Town Hall meeting with MM on Monday? It is happening all over the country, and it is a kind of "talk-back" for those who have seen the film.

[CAmomto1]

Originally Posted by Lucysmama

Is anyone going to MoveOn.org's Town Hall meeting with MM on Monday? It is happening all over the country, and it is a kind of "talk-back" for those who have seen the film.

DH, DD and I are - I just RSVP'ed for one.

[Britt]

I'm going to a house party on Mon...very exciting times.

[mamadawg]

Ignorance

Originally Posted by Nursing Mother

The thing is, I don't want to give MM a cent of my $$.......so I'm relying on people I can trust to give me information and insight concerning the movie. People that have seen it and are not particularity in the anti-Bush camp. People who aren't blinded by hate, but can logically and with perspective critique the movie and its accuracies or should I say, inaccuracies.

I have no problem with it being an opinion piece (as it is)....what I have a problem with is the way MM can deceive my editing and manipulating conversations to make people look dumb, stupid, or even anti-Bush when maybe so much is being left out. (and I've seen information suggesting that)

Maybe I'll rent it when it comes out at Albertsons for a buck .......but by then this will all be history.......and the movie will really be a laughing bit of ancient history......gosh time goes fast.

Then you're being ignorant willingly if you choose to have an opinion about something you haven't seen first hand for yourself. This scares the crap out of me, to be honest with you. Is this what we teach our children? Have a strong opinion about something even if you really don't understand it fully. Wow, that's dangerous.

No wonder so many people were led blindly into this war.

The sad part is people are suffering and dying because of this type of ignorance.

This is a sad, sad statement on our society.

I've read a lot of criticism on the movie and have so far seen nothing that makes much sense. Most of the people who are coming out strongly against the movie hadn't even seen it before they took a stance against it. I have to say that the trailer was much more "shocking" than most of the film. Most of the film was quite subdued and heartbreaking. There were some really funny parts, but the footage of the American mother who lost her son in Iraq and the footage of the Iraqi woman who's uncle's house was bombed make me wonder who in the world with a heart could ever believe that war is ok. People on all sides are suffering all because a few companies and families in power put profit over people.

[isleta]

Originally Posted by kama'aina mama

Can we have different opinions without mocking and being rude?

I am a trying! Smilies help me out :

[kama'aina mama]

Wow... it's tiring talking calm and reason here some days.

NM, while the movies are wildly dissimilar I do see the phenomenon they created/are creating as having a lot in common, up to and including charges that some of the drama surrounding the journey to the screen was artificially created by the filmmakers to create free publicity. I am not the only person to observe this. And in all fairness... the Passion was the opinion of the filmakers as to what things looked like and how things occured. Everything has a slant of some kind, even when you try like crazy to keep it out.


On the ACTUAL topic of the movie... I am still processing it and may need to see it again, maybe with a notebook. I don't know if it's a flaw or not... but wow did Moore cover a lot of ground. I keep forgetting and then remembering again entire segments, entire stories.

[Lucysmama]

Yes, and the two films also have another similarity.....that so many were willing to slander the film without seeing it. I'm talking about *passionate* slandering, too. It amazes me how strongly people feel about something they have never seen.

While I agree with reading reviews before seeing any films, I think it's important to take note of who is reviewing it and what their agenda is. Even FOX NEWS, which is a notoriously right-leaning media outlet, gave 'Fahrenheit' a great review. I'm just saying.....read a lot of reviews from a lot of sources before you decide to base your opinion on what others have to say, YK? I hear people quoting Ann Coulter and Rush, and nobody can say that they don't have a bias and an agenda. They quite obviously have both. I would be very hesitant to let them make up your mind for you. (Conversely, I also feel that people should not let this film or MM make up their minds for them about Bush and the Iraq war. It should, IMO, be one of many media sources you digest to get the whole truth.)

[JenLove]

Originally Posted by kama'aina mama

On the ACTUAL topic of the movie... I am still processing it and may need to see it again, maybe with a notebook. I don't know if it's a flaw or not... but wow did Moore cover a lot of ground. I keep forgetting and then remembering again entire segments, entire stories.

I hear you! I definately want to go again with a small notebook and pen. There is so much information it's hard to process in detail in that time.

A recommendation to anyone who hasn't seen it yet - bring something to take notes with!

[kama'aina mama]

Originally Posted by Lucysmama

It amazes me how strongly people feel about something they have never seen.

See, it does not amaze me at all. I had very strong feelings about The Passion and as a result of them (and for other reasons) I did not see it. NM skipped it for very different reasons than I and also has strong feelings about it that are different than mine, and I support her in all that. Likewise I support her not seeing F:9/11, both because she is choosing to vote with her dollar (as did I in the case of both films) and because there are some rather graffic scenes both of violence and of the anguish of losing a loved one. I would certainly encourage her to read commentary from both sides of the fence for a more balanced view.. but she doesn't have to. No more than Moore needs to provide rebutal time in his movies.

[Lucysmama]

Kama-
I was talking about people who will fight passionately about the film (as I said in my previous sentence) they have not seen. It's anybody's choice whether to see it or not...but to put your passion behind something you do not know?

For example, my dh works in a little bookshop here in our village. Based on what he has read and heard in very biased media sources, the owner will not allow ANY Michael Moore publications to be sold in the store. Has he read any of the books? Has he seen any of MM's films? No. He has been listening to Republican talk-radio and that is the complete basis of his opinion. And for that, he will argue up and down about how terrible the film is, how stupid Moore is, how bad the books are, etc....of course, it's his decision and prerogative to feel that way, I just think it rather close-minded.

That's what I was referring to, and the point I was trying to make.