Would you knowingly buy from a WAHM who doesn't practice AP? - Page 3

[danzarooni]

I would unless it was something hugely against my parenting beliefs. Also, I would be careful to make sure you KNOW for sure a mama is doing something you disagree with. I was recently in a dispute where some mamas believed I was anti AP and a horrible mama because they didn't know the whole story about something. It was a very disheartening experience for me. It may have hurt my business, I am not sure. I haven't had much sales since then. I may not be 100% crunchy but I am AP in my eyes. We have co-slept ebf cd are anti ezzo non-spanking and more. Anyway, that is my 2 cents.

[Carolinamidwife]

Originally Posted by Aherne

I do respect that... but bottom line though, I would think it totally an invasion of privacy to email a wahm and ask her if she spanks her children kwim?

Oh, well, I never said I was going to do that. I assumed this was hypothetical... like if we KNEW something.

[lifetapestry]

I agree with a lot of what Amber and Aherne have said, except that the responsibility for protecting WAHM's privacy resides with WAHM's, not consumers. If you get nosy emails about your life, it is your responsibility to politely decline to answer them. If you share details of your life in public, then it's your responsibility if consumers decide not to buy from you because of what you've said.

I buy diapers from WAHM's for the same reason that I buy soap and other household things from WAHM's, and why I attempt to shop at local businesses rather than franchises-- I like to support the people who are creating something themselves rather than supporting big businesses. That's just my personal values. Beyond that, I have no interest in knowing how a WAHM parents or if my local shoe repair owner goes to church or not. I have the absolute right as a consumer to decide not to buy from a business, whether it's a WAHM business or any other business, for whatever reason. And if a WAHM puts something on her website that I find distasteful or conducts herself on a public board in a way that I find obnoxious, I won't buy from her. My money, my choice.

Karla

edited to add a note to Amber: Selfishness and SAHM/WAHM/WOHMing have no automatic relationship to each other. You can be selfish and be a SAHM or a WAHM or a WOHM (or not), you can be a bad mother and be a SAHM or a WAHM or a WOHM. I've met selfish, bad mothers of all working types.

[Carolinamidwife]

Originally Posted by tabitha

of course i would follow my heart-

i dont support things i dont believe in. it isnt about prying into personal lives, i dont think spanking for example *is* personal, i think it is child abuse. so if a site had links to the pearls or ezzo (or other obvious evidence of parenting i strongly dissagree with) i would never support it, and likely urge others not to as well- just as i spread the word about nestle and so on. it is no different than buying organic, if i found a farm was cruel to its workers i would stop giving them money, no matter how great the peaches were!

so it is with the hypothetical WAHM , even if she made the best diapers in the world.

and should that mama stumble across my site and see that i breastfeed, or something that she didnt practice, it is of course her right to shop elsewhere.

these arent trivial choices, that we make as mothers. they are perhaps the most important.

tabitha

Yes! What she said... exactly.

[HelloKitty]

Wouldn't make a difference to me if the Mom was "AP" or not. I have friends that are "mainstream" and I haven't turned away from our friendship because we have different parenting styles. Different ideas work for different families and to each his/her own.

Now of course if it went beyond the AP versus mainstream thing - like I found out the woman abused or neglected her kids or something then that is a totally different story. I wouldn't want anything to do with her. But I don't think that was the OP question.

Kitty

[Carolinamidwife]

Oh, and to whomever compared the original question to the question of not buying from someone based on religious affiliation. What's wrong with that? What is wrong with supporting those who share your beliefs? I don't get it. We are all free to decide where to spend our money and since not a single person in this thread advocated for prying into the lives of WAHMs I think we can all safely assume we are talking about personal/private choice here. Whether it is "my business" or not I can choose not to spend our money with someone who parents or lives in a way I do not support. I don't see how someone can be touchy about that...

[lifetapestry]

Originally Posted by 2much2luv

All I was saying in this thread was that if I knew a WAHM practiced something I strongly disagreed with (spanking or other Ezzo techniques come to mind) I would probably avoid buying from them. I NEVER said we should pry in their lives...that they should have cameras set up in their living rooms. If they choose to share their parenting choices and I choose to disagree and not support them how is that wrong.
: this place is starting to suck.

Mama--

I think I know how you feel-- sometimes I think any thread or post that can be remotely seen as being critical of WAHMs or WAHM practices typically brings out heated responses and arguments against what you haven't actually said, but what others have read into it. I can actually predict who's going to respond in this way now, and it cracks me up to see that prediction fulfilled.

But that said, look back at the thread and look at how the majority of people understood what you were really saying. So, no, I don't think this place sucks.

Karla

[tippytoes26]

I just wanted to point out quickly that my comment about how if a mama was selfish she wouldn't be working from home can be misinterpreted very easily. My point was not that if you work outside the home you are selfish.. that's totally not true. But, my point WAS that if someone were a selfish person, they wouldn't bother working IN the home because it's twice as much work for half the pay. Hence.. most wahms are people who do their best to be good mamas and put their children first. I'm sure I didn't state it correctly or clearly enough but I want to clear it up now. I do NOT think parents that work outside the home are selfish.. I just think the VAST majority of mamas that do work from home with children at home are not selfish people based on the fact that it's so very difficult it wouldn't make sense that the kind of person that would abuse/neglect/etc.. their children would make the choice to work so hard to stay home with them. Does that make sense? Please please don't read that as me thinking WOHP are selfish.. that totally was not the point I intended to make and the corrolation that WOH=selfish and WAH=not selfish doesn't apply. I said NOTHING about WOH=selfish. My point was ONLY that WAH=not selfish. Ugh.. I would be devastated for anyone to think I have that opinion of WOH parents because it's absolutly not true. I feel so incapable of making my point without someone deriving that I must feel like WOHP are selfish when I in no way said it or meant it.


As far as the religion thing.. it comes down to this. You have every right to choose where your money goes. And if you choose to purchase from athiest wahms because you are athiest over buying from someone you know is Christian..I get that. But I have a couple of online friends that have specificlally said things like "I'm waiting to find an XYZ dipaer used because I refuse to buy it directly and support a mama who is Christian/athiest/Wiccan/etc" To me, I feel like that is discrimination. That is MY opinion. I don't buy from only white wahms for example. But, I suppose if I did, that's might right. I never said it wasn't anyone's right to do.. by all means.. go for it if you feel that is the way you like to conduct business. It's just my personal opinion that we expect too much and scrutinize too much our wahm purchases right down to their PERSONAL lives. We don't ask the lady at the crafts show or the local hardware dealer if they spank, do crack, or attend church.. it would be nice if wahms could run their businesses without those kinds of pressures also.

To the 2much2luv.. By your post, I feel like i should refrain from posting if my opinion is different than yours. I responded to your question and gave my opinion. *shrug*.. I thought that's what the point of the thread was. Everyone does their own thing... I was just sharing my view. I thought it was a good topic to bring up actually because I've been thinking about it some lately after an email I got from an online friend about not buying from a wahm that was an athiest. Just know that when you post a topic like that, you have to be prepared for people to have ALL kinds of opinions.. some which you might not like. Dont' get upset with the posters.. it's the range of opinion and freedom to talk about them that makes the thread a good one.

Amber

[Carolinamidwife]

Amber, I see what you are saying about how what you said was misinterpreted but I still think you are making opinion based generalizations. You cannot say that someone is a "good" parent just because they stay home no more than you could say the reverse.

I guess I don't see speaking with my money as discriminatory but I respect your opinion to see it that way.

[amicrazyyet]

I think all of the above listed reasons are getting too personal. Everyone has the right to choose what they disclose, but at the same time it stinks that if you are a Pagan or Athiest you could be judged by a staunch Christian because they saw something you posted while still trying to be a person and not always a WAHM and vice versa.

I draw the line at looking at their business practices, by what is listed for all to see on their website, or criminal activity. I am not going to judge a mama off what happens in her own home that others may/may not disagree with. I would buy from a mama that formula fed, used a stroller, circ'd, and spanked within reason, didn't co-sleep etc. Anything that borders on criminal no, but for making personal choices that work for her family, I am not going to base it off that. That honestly isn't my business and my way of parenting doesn't work for everyone and theirs doesn't work for me. It in no way invalidates them as a person/WAHM/parent.

[tippytoes26]

Amy,
You are absolutly right.. just because a mama stays home and works, doesn't means she's a good mama. But, having worn a wahm's shoes and having worked outside the home, I can honestly say that to work from home the income is pathetic, the work is SOOOOOOOO much harder, and the hours.. well, SUCK.. not to mention there are no health benefits, paid vacation, or paid sick leave. I know that it takes a certain kind of person to be able to balance it all and to WANT to balance it all. And the ONLY reason to do soemthing like this is for your children. WAHMs don't work at home because it's easier on them, because it makes more money (in the vast majority of cases anyway), or because it's a fairytale fun day everyday.. they do it for their children. I can't think of a single other reason that would make it worth it besides our children. Therefore, I think saying that MOST wahms re good mamas is a fair assumption. They might not all practice AP or breastfeed, or even cloth diaper for that matter.. but I think the vast majority stay home to work because they feel they are doing soemthing great for their children... and for me, that's good enough reason to buy from them reguardless of if they use a sling, get upset and yell sometimes, or feed them frozen microwave meals for lunch every day Ask any wahm if there's any reason besides doing what they feel is best for their children that they would be a WAHM. I doubt you'll find one that would choose to WAH for any other reason. THAT is how I conclude, at least in my mind, that a wahm need not practice AP to be a good parent and most (I would say all, but I'm sure there's a bad fish out there somehwere) are not selfish people. They don't do it for themselves.. it's because they love their children.

Amber

[Carolinamidwife]

Agreed.

[Miny20]

[QUOTE=Double A]What difference does it make? Not everyone that cloth diapers is AP.
I am not AP, but I practice "AP" things.
QUOTE]

I second this. I don't consider myself strict AP. I breast feed on demand. I cloth diaper. I respond to my child when she needs me, but I don't baby wear much, and my daughter sleeps in her own crib. She spends 20 minutes playing alone (near me) ALL THE TIME... because she likes it. We have let our 9 month old cry it out... and I fear I'll be completely judged for that. But, well, I came here to discuss diapers, so, I need to relax.

I've been trying not to get my feathers ruffled by this thread, but I realize everyone has their own parenting style and everyone is entitled to their own preferences.

Backing down, now.

[Carolinamidwife]

It seems like people are feeling like this is a personal attack on their parenting style... I hope I didn't come off like that. I am just really big on speaking with my money, that's all. Since having kids I am not the activist I once was so what I do and do not buy speaks volumes in my life. I am certainly not here to judge whether anyone is AP enough. Lordisa, I cannot stand the dogma of AP and I don't want to subject anyone to that.

[Aherne]

I guess I AGREE to the idea of not buying from someone whos business you dont agree with. If someone chooses to mix personal life with business then that is their thing. If I put on my "about us" page and delve into my lifestyle then in a way I am saying that your purchase supports this lifestyle and that gives you the option so support me or not.

for example-

as a christian I might be turned off to by pagens...

I WOULD buy from a pagen, even if I read all over messaged boards that s/he is pagen.

I WOULD NOT buy from a website that had pagen graphics and links all over it.

I think that is where I have the right to draw a line. For the rest, we all have the right to do whatever we think is right. Just dont send me an email saying "I read on MDC that one time you let your child CIO and wanted to let you know that this is why I will not buy your product".

[JohnnysGirl]

Originally Posted by 2much2luv

All I was saying in this thread was that if I knew a WAHM practiced something I strongly disagreed with (spanking or other Ezzo techniques come to mind) I would probably avoid buying from them. I NEVER said we should pry in their lives...that they should have cameras set up in their living rooms. If they choose to share their parenting choices and I choose to disagree and not support them how is that wrong.
: this place is starting to suck.

Beth, I knew what you meant and I totally agree with you.

[2much2luv]

Ok. I've taken my kids to gymnastics and I'm back now re reading the thread. It seems I have been a wee bit sensitive this morning. : sorry
Warm fuzzy feelings back. Everything is just like ahhhhhhhh around here lately because of I don't even know what so I am really reading too much into these things and being overly sensitive. I hope I didn't offend anyone or anger anyone. I really do love it here.

[luvmy3boyz]

Originally Posted by tippytoes26

Am I the only one that thinks that's just crossing the line? I mean seriously.. wahms talk to customers and post on boards etc.. about a lot of things. But it seems there is NO privacy when you are a wahm. I see complaints about how some whams aren't "professional" enough, but at the same time, how would you feel if you went to work and you were paid or not paid based on your religion or your parenting style or if you have children by different fathers? It's such a contradiction to expect someone to treat you professionally, but not offer them the same repspect. I think wahms deserve some kind of privacy. I know of Christian mamas who won't buy from wahms who are atheist and I know atheist mamas who won't buy from Christian wahms and it boggles my mind. We pay our mortgages, buy gas at the local quick stop, and buy our groceries all without ever considering how the owner raises his or her children or what church they do or don't attend or if they have ever smoked dope. I know more about some wahms than I do about my own sister. I see the relevance of the questin to some degree, but more than that, I know that wahms deserve some privacy. They aren't a nanny in your home, so how they choose to parent shouldn't even be a topic you know anything about, nonetheless make a shopping decision based on it. And if they choose to share that information in public, I don't think it's right to use that information in your puchasing decisions. I guess I just feel like when a wahm opens her life to her customers and on a public forum, she just wants to be one of the crowd. She just wants to talk and share etc like everyone else.. not have her business suffer for her openness. Or, worse.. that she would feel like she has to lie about her choice to use formula or try CIO so that her business doesn't suffer.

Personally, I'm a Christian, and I know LOTS of wahms who are not .. yet I would never avoid buying from them. Their Christianity or lack of doens't affect how much I love or don't a diaper they make. Nor would my lack of purchase encourage them to "see things my way". If they use swats as a means of dicipline, my lack of purchase doesn't make that child's life any easier or encourage that mama to stay apart of online communities that encourage a more AP style.. but probably more the opposite.

Sometimes we expect WAY more of a wahm than is fair to expect. For those of you who do judge a wahm based on her parenting style.. when you shop at a crafts fair and buy your child a pretty knitted blanket, do you ask the maker if she spanks her children or what church she attends before you purchase it? Or course not. So why would you ask a mother who is working hard to work at home (trust me, if these wahsm were selfish people.. they would be working outside the home, doing half the work because they wouldn't also be caring for children and getting twice the pay that they can make working from home) and be near her children? It doesn't make sense to me.




Amber

edited to add: I gotta stay of the puter....after reading this thread I turn around and see my son discovered how to remove his diaper. Gotta go get a non velcro dipe.

[Pinoikoi]

I have made this comment before and I will again... I am here for the diapers. I could care less who APs and who doesn't, who circs and who doesn't, who vacs and who doesn't, who flies to the moon, who jumps off buildings for fun, etc etc etc.

My kids have sensitivity issues. That is why we cloth. I listen in on other "conversations" here on MDC, but I do not necessarily practice them myself. Each to their own, I guess.

Okay, I have gone back and read some responses, so I am editing to add- I WOHM for VERY UNSELFISH reasons... I teach at risk teenagers that everyone else (including LOTS of parents and other school systems) have given up on. These are students most people don't really want to deal with- those with violent histories, drug abuse (or other abuses), young parents, etc- but I strongly feel they need another chance to be successful- and it does take a lot of time and personal commitment. I am DEFINATELY not in it for the money. Secondly, what is ezzo?

[fluffernutter]

I once came across a link to a diapering WAHM who a had a nice big image/link to the Ezzo's website/book. I would NEVER buy from her. I would also not buy from a WAHM who I knew to be abusive or neglectful.

And, just because someone uses cloth diapers and breastfeeds doesn't mean they're 'AP'. I know plenty of moms who do those things and spank their kids. I think spanking pretty much disqualifies you from calling yourself 'AP'.



ETA: It was the book 'To Train Up a Child' by the Pearls, not the Ezzos. The Pearls are just as bad (if not worse) than the Ezzos though.