eminem: musical genius or menace to society?

[pie]

Deep breaths mamas.

This might surprise you, seeing as I am so, ahem, politically correct and all and further, as I identify as bisexual, and Mr. Mathers is known for having homophobic imagery in his song lyrics.

Please, before you reply to this thread, if you are not intimately familiar with his lyrics and his music, do make yourself aquainted. I have a link to the complete lyrics of all of his songs, and I am warning you now, they are full of vulgar language and violent imagery.

My opinion is that the kid just totally shreds. I love the sound of his music and frankly, while I have not found the song that everyone was in an uproar about last year, I have seen that he is simply brutally honest. These are things he THINKS and while yes, he is exploiting his inner thoughts in the name of art, so what? That is what art is.

I find that the uproar over his music is due to the fact he is a white boy. Black rappers have been making these comments for years but oh boy let one of our white kids try this and forget it.

I think the guy is a bit out of line and could benefit from a little non violent communication but overall he really is a musical genius, disturbing or not.

these lyrics contain explicit lyrics. Tipper would tip over. If you are faint of heart or have children that can read in the room and you do not want them to see these do NOT open these links

He compares himself to Elvis Presley in the first song I am linking you to and I can see that.
white america

this song is to his daughter



hailie's song

this is about his mother
cleanin out my closet

and this one they play on the radio all the time right now, it is a jammin tune

without me

I could go on and on and I have.

I will calmly accept any criticism of this musical youth, I am just wondering if I am the only mother on earth and more so the only flaming liberal anti-ism fan he has.

[Sierra]

Mamapie, it will probably surprise people with me as well, but I am with you. While I wouldn't probably call him a *musical* genius, I do enjoy his art, as in, I enjoy listening to his music.

A few summers ago, I spent a bunch of time with my SO's sister's boys, young very innocent teens who, while they are totally gentle and sweet boys, really enjoy the music. They gave me some of the music, and I they loved that I "got" what they liked about it and that I could dig it with them.

I also think it is awesome that Eminem helped get more people familiar with the work of Dido. I really like her work, and am thankful Eminem gave her a hand up.

I wonder if this should be in the books and music forum?

Sierra

[pie]

Wow Sierra, I have been hesitating to post this because I was afraid of offending you. Seriously.

If you want to move it be my guest!

Dido is cool. And did you see Elton John hug him at the MTV music awards or the Grammies or whatever?

[Sierra]

P.S. I think it is interesting that a lot of the violent lyrics that Eminem gets attacked for is actually an interesting and important response to our attitudes toward artists, similar to the more accepted messages of people like Ani DiFranco and the Indigo Girls. The following is the song that introduced Dido to a wider audience:

Stan

Actually, if you listen to that entire album you'll hear that he is really reacting to the impact he has on people and his own space being violated as if that is acceptable just because he is an artist. KWIM?

[pie]

oh Sierra that is exactly what I mean. He is a disturbed individual who is putting his life experience out there on the line, and he is unafraid to do so. I do not agree with all his messages but I still like him. I don't agree with much of what many of my friends think but I still like them. Most of the time.

I have heard eminem compared to Hitler and I think that is pretty far out there.

[Sierra]

Mamapie, don't you worry about offending me. You and I would always work out our differences, and besides, I'm pretty multi-dimensional. My SO says I surprise her, still, at least once a day LOL. I'll let Missgrl move this in the morning if she decides it belongs better over there, since she is the primary mod here and I'm just around for backup.

Sierra

[OceanMomma]

dd#1 really likes him. She used to play me Stan all the time. She likes Dido as well. She even got dh a Dido CD for his birthday last year I quite like him too but I agree he sounds pretty disturbed & his lyrics are very deep if you get into them.

[kama'aina mama]

I haven't heard much of his stuff but I am profoundly disturbed by his use of his daughter on his latest album. As I understand it he uses his daughter as justification (or perhaps redemption) for his egregious behavior. He also uses her voice on a song where he speaks grafficly about his hatred for the girls mother and his desire to see her dead. I understand about art but that is where he crosses the line between art and exploitation of an innocent child who doesn't know any better. How will she feel about that when she is old enough to understand? I'm not nuts about this line from 'Hailey's Song' either

My baby's travelled back to the arms of her rightful owner

[Ms. Mom]

Well, he lives in my area, so we here a LOT of the hubub.

My Brother-in-Law works on production with him. He said he's a nice person. As for his music, I really don't care for it. I've listened with my sister (who is a fan) and it just dosn't move me. I get concerned with some of the lyrics of hate and violence and it disturbs me. Maybe that's what it's supposed to do?

As for being a 'white boy rapin' it does amaze me how well accepted he is in the Detroit Rap Scene. Maybe because he grew up in Detroit people think he has a right to be an angry rapper? I don't know?

I do look at his music as art, but think a lot of what he writes is more for effect than honest - but then, he's a proformer...

[Arduinna]

I don't like rap at all...and I don't like his music. For me it has nothing to do with him being a "white boy", lol.

[Parthenia]

Don't like his music, don't like the message. I don't like rap very much other than the lighter stuff like Beastie Boys (I loved Arrested Development), and I don't really get into band images, especially when they focus on negative attributes.
I think Eminem is a celebrity personality, a character concocted by several people who then make money off the image they created, which is portrayed by this one guy whose life experiences may or may be reflected upon in his music.
I think if he didn't have all this image assisstance from his record company, PR reps, and entourage, he'd still be a local Detroit rapper, playing local clubs. He may even have a huge following of people who really dig his music, but he wouldn't be as big without the "Eminem" personality. OTOH I'm not sure I'm qualified to judge his ability because I don't like the sub-genre of music he performs. But I think sells records more because of his image, and less because of his musical or rapping abiliy. In that regard I don't think he's any different from Christine Aguilera or Puff Daddy--I mean P. Diddy or whoever he is these days.
I don't think the the uproar is because he's white. I don't think black rap artists make that accusation much any more, and the ones that do are in the minority. Rap has mutated and hybridized and spread throughout the world. I think the uproar comes from how well they market the really obnoxious or offensive aspects of the Eminem persona.
But if his music makes you get up and dance, rock on.

[pie]

you make some excellent points about image selling music.

I think if he didn't have all this image assisstance from his record company, PR reps, and entourage, he'd still be a local Detroit rapper, playing local clubs.

he fully admits this. He sings about how if he had not met Dr. Dre he would still be a Detroit local.

If the majority of musicians, up to and including Pavarotti did not have PR machines they might cut a deal and sell one record but the chances of a second hit would be slim shady to none.

[dfoy]

Don't like the music.

Don't like the message.

Nothing to do with color at all.

Don't think he's an artist.

Freedom of speech and all, to each his own.

I find him offensive.

I agree with Parthena!

He and his promoters are getting wealthy off crappy music not unlike many other rappers, the "boy bands", Celine Dion, and the girl toys (Brittany Spears, et. al.)

All the radio stations & recording companies are owned by a few conglomerates. As Bonnie Raitt said at her recent concert a few weeks ago here in KC, "better support those independent artists. One of these days all the stations and all the labels will be owned by one big corporation and we will be forced to listen to the same song over and over."

[ladylee]

I think he's fantastic. It's an interesting experience for me to have to get beyond the things I object to.

[Etoile]

I have to say that from a purely musical standpoint I like his music. I like the way his voice sounds and the way he puts words together. It's very unusual and original, and his songs are all catchy.

However I find many of his lyrics very disturbing. I think he's very smart and has important things to say in some songs but others I think are just for shock value.

Most of the time I find anything other than his radio singles (my name is, or the real slim shady) too upsetting to listen to.

[tara]

Don't like his music and can't stand his message. As a queer woman, the misogyny and homophobia are more than I can stomach. The song about killing his wife makes my skin crawl. Ugh. I don't believe in censorship, wouldn't try to get his music banned or anything like that. But I'm not giving him any of my money.

Now, if my kid were old enough to care and wanted one of Eminem's cds or something, we'd have a long talk. I'd make him buy it with his own money, listen to it with me and talk about it with me.

[NewMa]

Count me in as another ultra-liberal Eminem fan. Honestly, Pie, when I saw your latest sig. I was wondering if you attributed the quote to Marshall Mathers instead of to Eminem because of some hesitancy to divulge your affinity for him here on the forum.
As for discrepancies between Eminem's lyrical content and my own personal value system, I am of the opinion that poorly produced music and unoriginal lyrical content are far more offensive than any lyrical point of view could be. I have a problem with the way lyrics in general are taken so literally; I view music as text and lyrics as representation. I think a rapper like Eminem often speaks in different voices, much as the author of a novel is able to give voice to different characters. If we find points of view expressed in a book's characters morally reprehensable it's far easier for us to read them as art than if we are offended by something in a song. This has been a problem for Eminem particularly, not because what he is saying is so different from what other artists have said and are saying, but because he's (or, rather, Dr. Dre and their PR people) developed such a large and public persona replete w/ a kind of personal mythology centered around his mother, ex-wife and daughter. He has made it difficult for the public to see where the real life person ends and where the content of the music begins. And then he has created songs like "What I Am" that so pointedly critique not only the public's inability to read his music as text, but, so brilliantly, also critique his own manifested persona.

[pie]

NewMa I love how you said that. Are you a music critic by profession or just a socioligist?

[Missgrl]

Eminem makes me feel torn....... he sickens me yet I love his music!
Strange I know! But I find myself in awe when i listen to his lyrics and his
rapping talent! I"ll look at dh and say "i don't like him but i really like him."
:LOL :LOL :LOL :LOL

Yes, i'm moving this to the music forum!!!!! Let's continue there!

[kama'aina mama]

Honestly isn't what you are pointing out exactly the problem NewMa? Who would you say makes up his fan base, musical deconstructionists fascinated by his social commentary or young men thrilled to find their own ugliest ideas about women and gays given voice?