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post #141 of 184
"Blues Clues and stuff like that come from huge companies. Copying those characters doesn't do much harm."


"But its still illegal....which still puts the integrity of the person doing the copy into question, which is what I thought the problem with copying is based on this thread"

Wow I have done some hand painted Blue's Clues items , guess I have no integrity.

Honestly all these judgements are so out of hand.No one knows anyones true character by one or two things they sell.
post #142 of 184
Technically, it's also illegal to sell items made from licensed character fabrics, unless you have permission from the license-holder.

I walk a fine line with this issue myself. I often have shirts with logos & characters on them that are perfectly positioned for a diaper cut, so they're used as the outside of the diaper. My rationalization is that #1 The license-holding company has already been paid for the item, since someone bought the shirt for its' image, and #2 I don't charge any extra for diapers with logos/characters on them. But I still don't really know if it's technically "right", yk?
post #143 of 184
Stell, I have the same delimna ... there are so many cute fabrics out there, but so far I make sure they are not marked as "for private in-home use only ... not for commercial use." But when it's a recycled item (for instance a shirt like you have) ... I don't know where that line is drawn.
post #144 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissSugarKane
"Blues Clues and stuff like that come from huge companies. Copying those characters doesn't do much harm."


"But its still illegal....which still puts the integrity of the person doing the copy into question, which is what I thought the problem with copying is based on this thread"

Wow I have done some hand painted Blue's Clues items , guess I have no integrity.

Honestly all these judgements are so out of hand.No one knows anyones true character by one or two things they sell.
It's not really a judgment; it's the law. No one was ridiculing you personally, but it IS illegal to copy someone else's design exactly.
post #145 of 184
I have never seen one of these soakers up close, and have never dealt with this seller, so I can't comment on them in that respect (although I have seen them on ebay many times).

I am an experienced knitter, and they do not look handmade to me. I would like to see one in person, because I feel confident that I could tell you for sure whether they are handmade or knit by machine. If they're done by machine, I resent the misrepresentation.
post #146 of 184
This has got me thinking about licensed fabrics/embroidery/graphic/applique designs - just sharing a couple of links about this:

http://www.embroideryprotection.org/mfgr.html

http://www.sew-whats-new.com/kim/copyrights.shtml
post #147 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by reader
It's not really a judgment; it's the law. No one was ridiculing you personally, but it IS illegal to copy someone else's design exactly.

Well I thought because I painted them myself it was okay.I didn't use any licensed fabric or anything.I just thought it would be cool to offer something WAHM made with that character for those that didn't like shopping at Wal-mart and such.Whatever I'll go take them down right now.And I am sure lots of other WAHMs are now considering taking down items they made.This is all so stupid.ANd I am sick of all this nit picking at people.I so don't feel this is a loving community anymore.

For what it's worth I have lots of integrity as I am sure the BJMP and other women have.Maybe we are not all legal experts.But it's so nice of everyone to call everybody out publicly instead of just pming or emailing the person about it.
post #148 of 184
I agree with Jamie. This community is taking a nosedive big time. I for sure will think twice about what I share here.
post #149 of 184
Jamie, you shouldnt take things so personally. My statement was that previously on this thread other people were calling the women who makes the BJ marketplace soakers as being in the wrong, essentially questioning her integrity since she stole a design. I said what I did because the poster before me made it seem like the problem she had with people copying other people was that it could harm business... which seemed like a contraditction to previous posts. I was just trying to clarify/understand exactly what all the previous posters concerns were with copying. It was a general discussion about why copying is wrong, having absolutely nothing to do with any specific person and you shouldnt take it as such. Its not a black and white issue.

I was simply using licenced characters(without any regards as to which ones, just what is seen most often) as an example because those are also someone else copyrighted works.... and its illegal to duplicate them in any manor without permission from the owner (as stated previously in the thread about KSS artwork).
post #150 of 184
This thread is still open?
post #151 of 184
I haven't seen a mod in a couple days.
post #152 of 184
I can't believe this thread hasn't been shut down...it should be.
to Max's...the soaker is adorable and will look even more adorable on your cutie!

You know the thing that I really hate about these forums is that it is so easy to just say whatever you think and feel without really knowing the damage that it does to others. I am really saddened by some of the posts here, and the judging that has been going on. Noone knows BJM-Karen personally, nor does anyone know how her business really works. But for crying out loud, what ever happened to thinking the best of others. Instead we are here playing guessing games about other peoples lives. It stinks! Nobody really knows if the art was copied. Lots of mamas here talk like it was some malicious act...like Karen from BJM sat and thought up how she could hurt Karen of KSS. Karen-KSS is an incredible artist and so incredibly talented, we all know that. We know nothing of this other woman and have no right to play guessing games with her business. Find out the facts, or give it a rest.

ETA: I know it is hurtful to steal someone elses art that they worked so hard on, and I know copyrighting is illegal and wrong, but so are a lot of other things. I trust the hearts of most of the mamas here, and I do not question their integrity because they put a paw print or anything else on the rear of a custom soaker or a hand-dyed outfit.

Another ETA: :LOL "I can't believe this thread hasn't been shut down...it should be. " This comment and was for the yucky guessing and judging BJM and other WAHMs, not for the sweet and wonderful mods.
post #153 of 184
you know I'm getting pretty darn nervous here when it comes to embellishing soakers.
I generally do not browse other soaker WAHM sites (hence I had no idea what the big deal was over the cactii issue) I've done all of two embellishments thus far, but what if they come close to anothers? I stand by them being original ideas, but with so many out there already it makes me wonder (like the bee discussion...how many different ways can you embroider a flying bee?)

I agree with everyone copying is copying and *wrong* no matter if its Disney or KSS (or insert random WAHM)
post #154 of 184
I know I'm late, but I'd like to add my $.02

2 ladies could easily produce 70 soakers a month. All they'd have to do is knit 2 each per day for 30 days and they'd have 120 soakers. Since it sounds like they're working away from home, it'd be pretty easy to do. It also sounds like there are more 2 people knitting, which would make it a breeze to knit enough soakers for ebay+ customs+ wholesale. So unless my math is way off...I don't see how that's even an issue.

As for the issue of copying...there really aren't too many ways to draw a flowering cacti. It'd be pretty difficult for them not to look similar. Same goes with bees, and lots of other things. Although the KSS cacti is gorgeous, I'm sorry to say, the design of the cacti itself is not unique.
post #155 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaper_Addict_Jen
I haven't seen a mod in a couple days.
As for shutting this thread down I haven't seen anything that violates our guidelines and up until now it's actually been a productive and respectful conversation from my view. I'm taking this to my head for review but I'm going to keep this thread open in the meantime due to a number of people who've pm'd me to let me know that they don't see any violations either. Let's keep it respectful so the issue of copyright enfringment and other thoughts on soaker/diaper making can be discussed productively.

And as for not seeing a mod in a couple of days, who am I? I posted on this thread not more than a few hours ago and post/move things every day. It takes a lot of time and work to make sure that people are following the guidelines so this community can flow openly. It's more than one person can do. If you see something that needs to be brought to a mod's attention (i.e. me) then let us know.

This thread has been re-opened for the time being.
post #156 of 184
((( Jenn )))

Thanks Jenn I agree I think everyone has done their best to be polite and respectful... nothing wrong with a good peaceful discussion. Yes, it probably should have originally been started in another thread... but it cant change that now.

ETA : maybe someone should send Jenn that trip to Arizona to draw cactii in the desert drinking margaritas ?
post #157 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2kyla
ETA : maybe someone should send Jenn that trip to Arizona to draw cactii in the desert drinking margaritas ?
:LOL Oooo.. margaritas! Well I suppose I'm blessed enough with moving to Hawaii next month and I got fairied some chocolate yesterday (Angelica!!) which is the closest to margaritas you can get, right? I'll draw some palm trees for you!
post #158 of 184
Thanks, Jenn - you're doing a great job!

I do think we're doing very well with this discussion - a lot of these issues need to be hashed out in public, anyway - this is a high-traffic forum, so the big issues will get talked about more. This particular set has a lot of gray areas, hence the huge discussion.

I would like to point out that just about ALL of the speculation about BJM has been properly refuted and/or substantiated by mamas who have been in contact with the seller.

So far, the facts are:
She buys her soakers from her 2 sisters, and other women who work with them.
They are hand-knit
The women who make them are paid a fair wage according to their local economy
Many of the items on e-bay have been re-listed at some point
If one woman can knit 1-2 soakers per day, that would account for the amazing product volume.

(eta: I have officially eaten my words! But I still think makers should be paid more )

The copying issue hasn't been resolved one way or the other, and probably won't. The good thing is that the word is out - don't ask someone to copy another person's artwork, or they could get mad!

I also would like to say something about the whole copying/inspiration thing. I have a soaker knitting pattern that is pretty distinctive, and I have fairly strict use rules for it. I have, however, seen soakers for sale elsewhere that look like mine, but their makers are not my licensees. But when I wrote to them to find out where they got their pattern, they told me that they developed it themselves by trial & error, after looking at some other soakers. So even though they look exactly like mine, they're NOT copies, because they never saw my pattern. It was their own creative efforts that got them to the same place I ended up.

Anyway, it never hurts to ask.
post #159 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReesesMomma
As for the issue of copying...there really aren't too many ways to draw a flowering cacti. It'd be pretty difficult for them not to look similar. Same goes with bees, and lots of other things. Although the KSS cacti is gorgeous, I'm sorry to say, the design of the cacti itself is not unique.
I was also thinking about this. Although I've never been to China, I'm pretty sure cacti don't grow there. The knitter could easily find the KSS on the web and go from there. And I agree with the pp above- this design is not a unique one. It's on the AZ license plate and many other products (like italian charm bracelets, as Morgan said earlier).
post #160 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by JennInSeattle
And as for not seeing a mod in a couple of days, who am I?
Jenn , you're a mod? When (and how) did that happen : :LOL
jk I see you around all the time so don't know what that no mod in days comment meant.


But anyway I still think this thread sucks and several people have had their feelings hurt.And I don't understand why having to be right about legal issues is worth hurting people in our community.
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