:o( - Page 3

[Mina]

Exactly. I do knit my soakers to sell, and I know how much money there is to made. It's a small profit margin. If I further diluted that by using a middleman, there would be virtually no money to be made. I would knit even if there was no money to be made, though, because I love it. Only then my poor wool deprived kiddos would get more goodies.

I don't know if she is or isn't doing something fishy, but I would definitely be interested in knowing what she pays her knitters.

[ustasmom]

Aside from the fact, 70 soakers is just impossible to do within that short amount of time. And, where did they come up with the idea for the identical design as Karen's? That is bothersome. They infringed on Karen's idea.

Plagiarism=

[Mina]

I'm confused by the Karens! Are both the KSS mama and the BJ Marketplace sellers named Karen?

[pamelamama]

Originally Posted by Mina

I'm confused by the Karens! Are both the KSS mama and the BJ Marketplace sellers named Karen?

Yes they are both Karens.

[Mina]

Ty

[linnea]

I thought the cactus was a custom? Perhaps the customer showed BJM-Karen a picture of the KSS-Karen's cactus and said, "like this please"? She did say that she was inspired by that soaker, didn't she?

[quest4quiet]

Originally Posted by amicrazyyet

I am suspect, have been suspect for a while, and unless things are answered in a clearer fashion, will not give my business to them.

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm always on the lookout for cheap wool, but I've never been able to bring myself to buy from her b/c something just seems...off, for lack of a better word.


Adorable shorts, though. Much cuter than some of the mutant animals, lol.

[amicrazyyet]

BJM-Karen a picture of the KSS-Karen's cactus and said, "like this please"?

If you take inspiration from a drawing or design it is cool, to obviously copy it is plagarism. It is an integrity issue. I can copy a design of a diaper for my child, but to profit off someone else's copyrighted art is wrong.

[Morwenna]

While I totally agree that one can be 'inspired' by another's work...inspired is different than blatant copying
Here's the BJM

and here's the KSS one

I also find it highly suspect the sheer # of these BJM's that are being cranked out.

[pamelamama]

Originally Posted by Mina

Ty

[pamelamama]

I've always felt vaguely uncomfortable with BJM.

[ustasmom]

I would be madder than a hatter if I saw my custom KSS design being knocked off. And I'm sure that Mia and Karen aren't all that pleased about it.

Madder than a hatter, I'll tell you... :

[gamom]

those shorts are too cute.

[mom2fourdarlings]

Wow that copy of Karen's soaker is cute~to bad so sad that an original design could not be made and hers had to be copied, unless it was done with her knowledge???? Otherwise as cute as it is, it is theft of someone else's design and hard work.

As for the marketplace on ebay, let's be real, that is not just 2 sisters knitting in China To much volume-and there will never be any way to know if they are sweat shop diapers. If she said "no way" and you took her word on that you would be taking a total strangers word without any proof.

As for supporting OUT of USA wahms, well as much as we rationalize it of saving a $ and support overseas women, it is not a good thing because you will never know just what you are really supporting

To much has left the USA, work force wise now DIAPERS as well

They are cheap, and you may save a $ but will you still have the "so what" attitude if your dh is laid off when his company desides that labor overseas is cheaper??

[PatchyMama]

It sucks the embroidery idea was copied Unfortunately it happens all the time tho so I guess im not really surprised... all those elmos, nemo, blues clues, etc applique diapers/soakers are ripping off the original creators as well, it sucks all around IMO

I'm bet that based on the sheer amount of soakers they are knit on a machine, tho i think slave labor could be a stretch. But I'm ok with a machine knit soaker for the cost..... something I wont mind the baby getting dirty and messy (unlike my MM or other more expensive soakers).

As for the price .... they arent the first people to put cheaper soakers out there... there are tons on ebay that go for much less. As consumers its not our job to make sure WAHMs set a fair price no matter if they are hand knitting, machine knitting, or sewing. There will always be people who undercharge, and always people who buy them for a multitude of reasons. IMO its not fair to say its ok for a US wahm to undercharge and then say its not ok for someone else to do it just because they may have different reasons for doing it.

ETA : if anyone has any recommandations for a good quality, durable, arrodable (but fair ) soaker made by a US wahm PLEASE post it. That way people know there is a choice and that they dont have to support someone who may or may not be questionable.... if that makes sense, lol. I think a lot of the reason why she gets so much attention is because she provides something that is hard to find... instock. For moms who NEED soakers thats a big deal and sometimes leaves them without a choice. yeah i rambled, i should go to bed, lol.

[TheGardenMama]

Originally Posted by twirlgirl

I keep re reading this post and wondering what this means...seen this wahms shorts before? seen the cactus embroidery?

Yes, I meant I had seen the design before. And it *was* on Karen's (KSS) site.

It's sad, but WAHMs have been copied for years by other WAHMs - it's one of those chances you take when you put your heart in a design. I've never seen a copy that improved on the original though!

I have looked at the Marketplace soakers, but I don't think I would buy one either. I support USA goods, and that includes WAHMs. I'd rather that my hard earned money become someone else's hard earned money.

[lestouffer]

I find that it is near impossible to think that 2 women can generate this much fluff by hand. If they are machine knit and that is why the cost is low, that is fine, but it needes to be stated. I agree with all the other soaker knitting WAHMs on here that by advertising the same product that we spend so much time making and then selling it at such a low price, she is belittling our product. There is a difference, if only not to knock off/ steal anothers idea. I do agree that I would rather my kid play in the mud in a 20 soaker than a $300 MM one, but still. JUST TOO FISHY!

[twirlgirl]

Originally Posted by TheGardenMama

Yes, I meant I had seen the design before. And it *was* on Karen's (KSS) site.

It's sad, but WAHMs have been copied for years by other WAHMs - it's one of those chances you take when you put your heart in a design. I've never seen a copy that improved on the original though!

I have looked at the Marketplace soakers, but I don't think I would buy one either. I support USA goods, and that includes WAHMs. I'd rather that my hard earned money become someone else's hard earned money.

yeah everything is clear as mud to me right now.
I hadnt seen Karen's cactus at all...so hence...my confusion

At first this was my assumption and thought to myself...a cactus is a cactus is a cactus...but THIS cactus is an exact replica

I dont know the Marketplace person, but I totally agree with Stella! Hand knit soakers, take so much time and work! When I first saw the price listed for those shorts I nearly spit what I was drinking at the time, all over my computer screen! For a pair of shorts, by the time you cover yarn....the person who hand knit them, literally made pennies per hour time spent on them (if that is indeed the case!)

[BowNessMonster]

Re: copying another wahms' artwork: Guess it all boils down to integrity of the individual WAHM. I'm not so fussy about licensed characters, Nemo, Hello Kitty etc, though I personally won't do them. HOWEVER!

to the WAHM's who blatantly copy *HAND DRAWN ONE-OF-A-KIND* appliquee artwork (they know who they are , karma karma)
and to the customers who ask the WAHM's to copy!!!

It's one thing to say "I love cats. Can you draw me a nice kitty appliquee?" but it's not cool to say "I love this XYZ cover and I need this appliquee"

to all the wahm's who strive to create original designs!

ks

[Rising Sun]

You know, at one point I was so tempted to buy a BJM soaker... because of the price. But, I kept wondering about them.... who knits them? What am I supporting?

What if they are being knit by 8,9,10 year olds, who know that if they don't crank out a certain amount per day they won't eat that day? What if they are being knit by women who are being mistreated, and don't benefit from their own labor? For me, it's not a matter of proving that they are, but proving that they aren't.

So, I would rather my kid wear the $200 custom soaker from MM or KSS, etc. and get it dirty... while I know that their children are treated well and the mom's are knitting these soakers in their homes, and are benefiting from my purchase. I guess it all just boils down to what I believe and how firmly.

So, I have decided that if I want a lower cost soaker instock, I'll look at the wahms who are just starting out and still have their prices low. I saw so many on ebay that weren't even selling, but were priced very low. The wahm was just starting out and getting her name out there.... and they looked very nice. She also did custom.... and I started bidding on her stuff, because I emailed her back and forth for a while and knew who she was.

I guess it's like... I will pay a little more for organic food, so why not pay a little more for a soaker that I know is knit by a mom who is staying home with her kids?

About the copying.... to copy another wahm's art, IMO, is very wrong. It is actually hurtful to the wahm.... they feel invaded. It is stealing, and they feel like they have been stollen from. If a customer emailed me and asked me to do a custom order by copying so and so's diapers, I would say, "NO way!" and be done with it. That sort of stuff just bothers me. Wahms put way too much into what they do to have somebody just rip it off.

Teri