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post #61 of 184
My objection is mainly *misrepresentation*. If you're going to go through the trouble of providing someone with a story about where your product comes from, and how it's made, BE TRUTHFUL. The BJM-Karen has told people repeatedly that her soakers are hand-knit, not machine knit, and are made by her 2 sisters who are living in China. Not just sisters in general, but HER TWO sisters.
So how can two individuals crank out...what was it? 70 soakers? in one month, along with custom AND wholesale orders? They can't. Therefore, her product is misrepresented, and we are not getting the whole story.

And yes, I do think that domestic soaker-making WAHM's should be charging much more for their work. But how can they when they have to compete against such low prices? Even diaper-makers aren't charging fair wage, because they would not be able to sell their wares if they did.
post #62 of 184
can I get an amen? (diaper making, soaker making wahms charging too little for what they do)

I dont usually browse ebay (or other sites ofr that matter) for other soakers so I had no idea about this seller or that she even existed
post #63 of 184
Just a note, that everyone may want to be careful about assuming anything about this person or her business. No one knows what is really going on, no one knows she is lying, no one knows she isnt. I'm not sure its fair to come on a public board and say that she has to be lying or that she has to be using child labor or making possibly harmful accusations without any proof. If any one of you soaker WAHMS who have posted to this thread were getting bashed on MDC saying you were using a machine to knit or that you were doing something unethical (without proof or giving you the chance to respond) you would be hurt and angry...

Maybe someone should just email her and ask her how they manage to knit so many? And when those soakers were counted (per month) did they all sell? is it possible that a lot of them dont sell and they are relisted? or maybe they have a lot of stock leftover because their soakers didnt always get so much attention and always sell and they are listing more of stuff they had previously knitted since there is demand? Who knows.. none of us have any real idea of what is going on, so maybe we should hold off on making judgements or assumptions. I dont know this woman, dont have any reason to defend her... but i personally am not comfortable with assumptions being spread that could possibly ruin her business without factual information.

ETA: thats not to say people cant not buy them for whatever reasons are important to them... every customer has a right to buy or not buy whatever they want and for whatever reason they want. I just wanted to play devils advocate and put out other possibilities to be fair.
post #64 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by mama2kyla
Just a note, that everyone may want to be careful about assuming anything about this person or her business. No one knows what is really going on, no one knows she is lying, no one knows she isnt. I'm not sure its fair to come on a public board and say that she has to be lying or that she has to be using child labor or making possibly harmful accusations without any proof. If any one of you soaker WAHMS who have posted to this thread were getting bashed on MDC saying you were using a machine to knit or that you were doing something unethical (without proof or giving you the chance to respond) you would be hurt and angry...

Maybe someone should just email her and ask her how they manage to knit so many? And when those soakers were counted (per month) did they all sell? is it possible that a lot of them dont sell and they are relisted? or maybe they have a lot of stock leftover because their soakers didnt always get so much attention and always sell and they are listing more of stuff they had previously knitted since there is demand? Who knows.. none of us have any real idea of what is going on, so maybe we should hold off on making judgements or assumptions. I dont know this woman, dont have any reason to defend her... but i personally am not comfortable with assumptions being spread that could possibly ruin her business without factual information.

ETA: thats not to say people cant not buy them for whatever reasons are important to them... every customer has a right to buy or not buy whatever they want and for whatever reason they want. I just wanted to play devils advocate and put out other possibilities to be fair.


ITA, very well said Tiffany!
post #65 of 184
She told me it was women & 2 of them were her sisters. So it sounds like there are more than 2.
post #66 of 184
I have read she gets pretty defensive when asked. I suspect that she has been questioned about this more than once!
post #67 of 184
Aside from all the other stuff, I just wanted to add that I think they definitely DO relist items. There was a while ago that it didn't look like anything was selling. There are a few other ebay based companies with lots of stuff up for auction but a lot of it is relisted and relisted til it goes.
post #68 of 184
Okay, Jen - that makes more sense.
If it were more women than just the two, the production volume is definitely plausible.
post #69 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauira
I have read she gets pretty defensive when asked. I suspect that she has been questioned about this more than once!
I would get tired of all the questions too. Not all moms are nice when they ask, they can be confrontive. That would sure put me on the defensive.
post #70 of 184
Yes, I was just going to say the same thing.... it is more than 2 women, 2 of them are either her sisters or her SIL's. They have a family shop where they make suits and they have a place where they knit there as well.

She and I talked long and in depth about things, and I can say that I am fairly comfortable with saying she treats them well.

The area of China in which they live has a very very low cost of living.

I'm not saying you should all run out and buy it, but I don't *think* it is a sweatshop. I am pretty certain she's being honest on that.

And honestly, jobs are hard to get in China, and she may be providing them the difference between them eating and not eating. Especially for someone with a lower education who is older.... if they need to contribute to the family income there might not be any other alternative than sweatshop work... so Karen might be providing something very valuable to these women... an alternative to making Nikes for 10c/hour.

Kimberly
post #71 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diaper_Addict_Jen
I would get tired of all the questions too. Not all moms are nice when they ask, they can be confrontive. That would sure put me on the defensive.
I totally agree!
post #72 of 184
Just want to toss out there that I do not really think they are making that many. When a friend contacted her about a custom order, she was told 3-5 weeks. I am fairly certain she would put a definate custom order before an Ebay stocking. Just my .02

And Tiffany Very well said.
post #73 of 184
Quote:
I don't think many of you realize how long it takes to knit soakers & shorts & pants by hand
Some people also knit faster then others. Teresa at LTK once said in sewing that it just takes her a couple hours to whip up a soaker, that really isnt that much time to be unable to list several especially with more then 1 doing it. And she definetly does relist, its free to do with ebay if the terms apply.

If you dont feel comfortable with it, then skip over it, but shes explained herself enough times. Shes responded before that the money she pays those that make it is more then what those in China usually make, and they are getting quite a profit out of it. I dont know the China economy at all or the rate table of money, its just what shes responded with in the past.
post #74 of 184
I had to wait 25 days for longies.
post #75 of 184
ITA with Tiffany. Without any evidence, it is unfair to judge her.

I went to Vietnam in 1998. The cost of living there is unbelievably low. My friend's family was considered upper-middle class and their family of 6 survived quite comfortably on less than the equivalent of $10 per day that the one primary wage earner earner. His mother did not have to work at all because they were considered "well off" and they were also able to buy a second piece of property to build what we would call a summer home. BTW, this was in Ho Chi Minh City (former Saigon), the most prosperous and expensive area to live in Vietnam.

Many people that I met in Vietnam would have been grateful for this kind of work. My friend's SIL was a seamstress and would sell full outfits for the equivalent of around $2. Something super fancy would be around $5 tops.

I am not saying that Vietnam = China, but my point is to give some frame of reference. Just because they are inexpensive does not mean she is ripping off her family and friends.
Buying in the US vs. buying overseas is NOT my point.
post #76 of 184
wow! I've been too busy to get on here lately and just saw this... Very very interesting comments.

I was e-mailed by the owner and asked if I want to sell their soakers at my store. I didn't feel comfortable doing it so I turned her down. I can't imagine how much the knitters make after the cost of the soakers and selling them to someone like me at 1/2 what she sells them for at e-bay? If I were to sell her stuff I would get a whole bunch at 1/2 retail... Just doesn't sounds like a small business to me. Which is fine as long as all workers are paid a fair amount. Just not a small business. And definitely not considered WAHM. Hope it's not a sweat shop type thing... Yikes! But it is true that we just do not know. So I am not saying anything bad about them. Just am not interested to sell their stuff...

Not that I know but a lot of people might think machine made is still hand made as long as they don't have huge industrial sized machines in a factory. Like the diapers I make... I call them hand made but I use a sewing machine to sew them... YKWIM? I think it is obvious from the way they look that they are not made with knitting needles by hand.

:

Azadeh

P.S. I can't stand it when people copy without permission. No no no no..
post #77 of 184
I do not know her working conditions, but I do know that it is NOT ok to copy Karen's (of KSS) cactus design.
post #78 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teri
About the copying.... to copy another wahm's art, IMO, is very wrong. It is actually hurtful to the wahm.... they feel invaded. It is stealing, and they feel like they have been stollen from. If a customer emailed me and asked me to do a custom order by copying so and so's diapers, I would say, "NO way!" and be done with it. That sort of stuff just bothers me. Wahms put way too much into what they do to have somebody just rip it off.

Teri


It takes a bit more imagination and work to draft your own designs and patterns, and come up with an original product that's your own, than to copy someone else's. Of course, the temptation to make a bit of extra money for your family comes in, when you are a wahm making very little overall in your cottage industry, and someone says, 'I really need such-and-such just like...'.

But the bottom line is, it's an art, it's craftmanship, and there are certain ethical standards (unwritten, but still in force for those of like-minded hearts and minds) that reputable wahms respect for themselves and, in turn, for others in their craft.

I certainly wouldn't speak against anyone in particular, not knowing what an individual situation might be, but I do believe that, in making your creations your own, you earn the respect of others in your customer and peer community.
post #79 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by quest4quiet
I'm always on the lookout for cheap wool, but I've never been able to bring myself to buy from her b/c something just seems...off, for lack of a better word.
ITA!! I've never bought from her b/c I'm convinced these come from a sweat shop.
post #80 of 184
So the cactus was completely copied, looked just like a replica?

If it was just a darn cactus on the butt, she doesnt own the right to be the only one to put cactus on a diaper tush, its not trademarked, copyright, etc. If it were copied completely, then I would think of it as theft, but if it was just a cactus on the tush, from another mama who lives in AZ whats the matter with that? She didnt claim or try to say it was a KSS soaker. But I dont see the orginal anymore to see if it was exact.
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