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Any quiverful mamas here? - Page 2

post #21 of 45
Lifesabeach!

Wow! What a story. I am sorry you guys aren't on the same page with QF. I don't think my dh would be completely accepting, either, but then you read my post and worries, so I'm not there yet either. I'm sure your husband is just so afraid for your health. What does the dr. think? If you are interested, I think www.ccli.org has some info on vasectomies...

Again, welcome.
post #22 of 45
I **believe** in QF, but don't think I should practice it. I had my 1st (a set of twins) in '98 at 29 weeks via emergency classical c-birth. They are both autistic. I had my 3rd via planned c-birth ('00)because no midwife/OB would agree to help me thru a vaginal birth. I am pg w/ #4, who will also be born via planned c-birth in Sept. I would love to have more, but it is not a natural process for us due to the extreme measures we went to with our first BEFORE we belived in QF. I struggle with this on a daily basis. I want to do God's will, but I also don't want act foolish and put Him to the test, so to speak. What are your thoughts on this?
post #23 of 45
I have never had difficult circumstances like those described by other posters here, so all I can give is my opinion.

It would be hard to have a make a choice in those circumstances, but I think one of the whole points of being a Christian is trusting in God, not just looking at things how we see them right now, but knowing that He is in control and has a plan for us and will take care of us now, and even more so if we submit even more to his plan by being QF.

I do not think we have the right to skip one of God's ways because we feel it may not apply to us. Just like sometimes it is easier just to lie than tell the truth in certian situations, does not mean it is the right thing to do or what God intended. Deciding that QF is right, but then not doing it because you think it might be too hard or something, does not seem right to me. (but that is just me, feel free to disagree! )

If we really trust in God, we don't have anything to worry about. He knows our circumstances and is watching over us! It is not testing God to live our lives the way He intended, and believing His word, that He will take care of us.
post #24 of 45
Treehugger - I have a good friend with 7 yr. old autistic twins! If you're interested in contacting her, PM me and I'll see if she's interested....
post #25 of 45
Well, I think sometimes God says "No."

About 3 years ago, we were first presented with the idea of quiverful. It was suddenly everywhere, it seemed. We read up on it, really prayed about it, and then decided to jump forth and do it. We got pregnant about 10 minutes later

This pregnancy was truly terrible(the resulting baby was truly wonderful though!) I had terrible hyperemsis, ended up in the hospitla several times, couldnt take care of my two preschoolers, and had no help. And we prayed and cried out to God for help, for peace, for wisdom, for something, and God was.......silent.

We really struggled with this for a long time,and our faith was severely rocked. But, I spoke with some trusted Christian friends, and they ccame to the same conclusion: perhaps this was God's way of saying, "No, I dont want this for you."

it was a very hard decision, because in many ways it seemed tlike the right thing to do, but we had to go with what God really seemed to be saying to us.
post #26 of 45
That's how I feel re: our family. I think God has given us certain circumstances in order to grow and learn. We have recieved info on how risky it is for me to continue to get pg and have repeat c-birth after repeat c-birth...I truely think it is His will for us to have 4. Time will tell.
post #27 of 45

yes and no

hi there.
I would really like about 5 kids...not necessarily fitting into the typical QF idea though. I love the idea of a large family (i have alban, 4months, now!), adn i've seen it be put into practice in my own extended family with lots of aunts and cousins just piling up !, but my husband gets very overwhelmed at the thought. I practice Fertility Awareness Method because I have PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome) and have to watch my cycles closely. Thankfully it helped me get pregnant when drs told me i couldn't. so i now know how!

i do trust that no matter how many kids we have God will provide, but i also believe you need to know yourself and your spouse and your limits. I generally have a hard time articulating what i need and need discipline with making sure i have the resources (physical, spiritual, financial) to take care of my son the best i can.

I think the FA method is in line with natural parenting because it helps you understand the wonderful inner workings of your body as a woman, and it gave me the confidence i needed to have a home birth and believe that my body is iNDEED "fearfully and wonderfully made!"

So while i definitely want a "quiverful", there are a few factors in that decision:

1. my health
2. my marriage
3. who i am as a person, mother, artist, individual.

Anyway, i am SO glad to meet other Christians who read Mothering! Yay! It's reassuring.

Vesper
post #28 of 45
I think it depends on your interpretation of the QF ideals.

We believe that God wants us to have many children...but also feel that there are other ways in which he conveys these things to us. This is just in OUR case - it is certainly different for everyone.

For example, I had PPD as well (with my last two). The PPD leaves me without sexual desire, which in a sense, prevents pregnancy. We also feel that we *know* when it is time to have another baby. We practice non-abortifactant methods of birth control until we feel that it is time for another, based on God's messages to us.

My Mom is one of 10, my Dad is 1 of 8. I have to admit, I'm a little taken aback by the "we're not Catholic" thing. I'm not sure what that has to do with it, or why it is being used as a slanderous remark. It seems awfully prejudicial to say that Catholics have big families. Granted, we are Catholic, and my Mom and Dad's families were also Catholic...but I know HUNDREDS of Catholic families that have one or two kids and stopped. :
post #29 of 45
HI everyone...it's been great watching more and more people join in on this thread! I knew there had to be more than us out there.
Momschooling...just an idea for PPD, our midwives highly recomend mothers with a history of PPD to have their placenta dried and capsulated and take it when needed. The hormones are very helpful. They do this themselves, as does a local chiropractor. I know of a woman who had it so bad with her first that she swore her baby was dying (she was perfectly fine, not even ill)...when she took the capsules, she was fine.

God does choose at times for us to not get pregnant...lactational amenhorea (sp???) is one of those times. He made our bodies and our childrens bodies in a way to naturally space our births. Also, if you really don't feel like being intimate for some reason, there is nothing wrong with that...the Bible says that our bodies are our husbands and there's are ours, but it also says that men are to love their wives as they do their own bodies. I fell that in this situation it calls for our husbands respect and to let us wait until we are ready.
I for example do not really get PPD, yet I am not in any way in the mood. I feel so touched out from nursing a baby and having a four year old climbing all over me that I just can't imagine me enjoying that right now.

BTW - Although I do believe that I have been commanded to follow this belief...I do believe that GOD leads us each down different paths...I pray that all people who love GOD are always searching for HIS will for them and doing it.
post #30 of 45
Quote:
Originally posted by ging-ging
yes, that is seen as birth control, because it is your choice to abstain for the purpose of not conceiving, not trusting God to give you the children he has for you when he decides to bless you with them. The Bible says this about abstaining within marriage:

1 Corinthians 7


Marriage

1Now for the matters you wrote about
: It is good for a man not to marry.[1] 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Okay, see this is what I don't quite get about this line of reasoning. It sounds to me, reading this passage that if you are aware you are in your fertile time and choose to abstain from sex, perhaps specifically dedicating that time to prayer about whether you should be trying to concieve or whether it is a good time for you to be abstaining that you would be following the spirit of this charge. It would be different and problematic if one party were begging for sex or to try to concieve and the other saying "NO!" but this makes it so clear, to me anyway, that a mutual agreement within the family to pace the babymaking some is well within G-ds plan.

momschooling... I guess part of the issue with the Catholic thing is that if you have a "large family" which these days means any more than three, I guess... you are asked often a variety of dumb questions, many of them veiled insults. "Are you Catholic?" (or Mormon) is a common question that many parents of large families get. And it is often asked in a tone that suggests "Oh, you poor thing... you had no choice, that pushy controlling church of yours forced you to." Which is insulting of course to anyone, Catholic or no. Add to that the unfortunate fact that many Protestants have some very negative feelings about Catholicism and the remark is even more bothersome, I suppose.
post #31 of 45
kama'aina mama~

I don't want to offend anyone, just give my personal opinion.

About that verse...
I Corinthians 7:5
Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

So say I know I ovulate around the 15th every month, so then for that week every month my dh and I suddenly are supposed to feel the desire to fast and have much more prayer and not to have sex? To me, that is like if everytime the baby needs changing, I 'suddenly' remember something very very important I should be doing right now three rooms away, so I cannot possibly change the baby (and dh will just have to do it). Do you see what I mean? It is dishonest, or at least very sneaky. And that is not how I want to serve God- doing as little as I can get away with. I want to the very best I can for him.

Also, he made me (all women) to feel most like having sex *during* ovualtion. So I really doubt most women would choose that time to abstain. Naturally, it woudl be quite the opposite!

I think God made women this way- capable to have 7 or 8 babies (with breastfeeding as child spacing)- for a resaon. Children are a blessing, we should WANT blessings. We are commanded to be fruitful and multiply. I think it is healthier for women, too. In the OT, menstration is called the "sickness." At first, this seems very un-PC, but it is right none the less. The more you have the 'sickness' (which is certainly what it feels like to me!), the more likely you are to get all types of female cancers.

Just to throw this in here for any ZPGers, I have looked into this and read about it and even discussed with a few college professors about how over-population is unfounded. I do not want to debate about it, but I am satisfied. And even if it were true, I still choose to trust God with everything.

There are beautiful verses about a wife being like an olive branch with her many children around her. I think that is beautiful and what God meant for us.

I also see it as every child is an eternal soul. They are the only things I can take to heaven with me someday, and the most important things I can spend my time with on earth. Why would I not want more?

This is a very strong belief for me. Even in the origionial laungage of the Bible, the word for 'semen' and 'child' is the same. So we see it as if we waste one, we are wasting the other.

The Bible says that God has our whole life planned before we are even in our mother's womb. I know he has my future children's lives planned out right now, and who am I to tell God he can't work through me?

I know not everyone agrees with this, but it is very important to me. Also, not everyone who does this has a lot of children. My close friend has been QF her whole life and thinks she may not be having any more now, and she only has three.
post #32 of 45

there's a problem though...

The problem, PerfectLove, with your reasoning, is that, while it's true of course (and this was so helpful to me to learn--it helped me understand that what i mistook for low sex drive was actually normal and healthy) that ovulation is the time that you have the most libido, what about the other 2 weeks in the month when you are not ovulating or menstruating? Are we to abstain from sex in the times when we're _not_ fertile? It seems like the other side of the coin.

I think God gave us a predictable cycle so that we could make decisions based on wisdom, and not merely biological impulses. In addition to the way we are so wonderfully made, he gave us the capacity for reason.

PLEASE don't think i mean this as an indictment against QF mamas at ALL! i'm jsut pointing something out. I don't mean any insult...in fact if you read my first post in this thread you'll see that i want a big family and I DO consider children a blessing. I don't think that overpopulation is a valid concern, nor do i think that having as many children as you want is irresponsible in any way. I also believe God provides according to our needs. So there's my disclaimer.

Vesper (Alban's mama):bf wife to ben
post #33 of 45
PerfectLove, I don't think your analogy of the diaper changing is a good one at all. It doesn't cover something very specific I said. A closer analogy would be if the babe needed a change and you turned to your DH and said "Hey, I really don't feel like doing this one but I will if you aren't up for it. " That is to say, keeping yourself open to doing it (concieving or changing the diaper) but communicating with your partner in this compact (G-d or your DH) that you would prefer not to.

In addition, your point that many women feel stronger desire during their fertile time. I'm not sure if men are more aroused being near a fertile woman as they are in the animal kingdom, but that may well be true also. So, doesn't that make it the perfect time to abstain from the pleasure of sex, as a sacrifice? I mean, you don't get anything out of fasting overnight when you are asleep... it's fasting when you are hungry and want food that has value.

To be honest the Pauline statements require some historical context for me to understand them better. I find my self wondering if he is refering to keeping the traditional Jewish family purity when he talks about abstinance (which is specific to the time during which you cannot concieve) or if he is refering to something else.

I'm just saying that there is a difference (to me) between being open to G-ds plan for your life, earnestly praying for that plan to be revealed to you and assuming that he has the same plan for everyone and that plan is to specifically try to have many children. Heck, Abraham who he promised decendants as countless as the stars had but two children in G-ds plan. Mary (by some accounts anyway) had but one. Was she a bad wife to Joseph and he a bad husband to her?

Let me be clear... I think it awesome that many of you believe this is G-ds plan for you but I find myself uncomfortable with interpretations of Scripture that seem to exort all women to follow this plan lest they be refusing the will of G-d.
post #34 of 45
First off, I just want to make sure there are no hard feelings. It's totally fine to disagree.

vesper songs~ My dh and I abstain from sex when it seems right to us. We have no desire to get pregnant and we have no desire to NOT get pregnant. Being QF is trusting God with your fertility either way, being neutral, kwim? We do not take my fertility into account at all. What we do consider is just life in general- are the kids asleep, are we up for it, would we rather read together for a while or talk, etc. I'm sure sometimes we abstain when I am fertile, and sometimes when I'm not, but we would never go out of our way to 'try for' or prevent a child. It is all in God's hands.

I see what you mean about predictable cycles. I have a very good friend who used to believe the same thing. But, personaly, I just don't buy it. It doesn't say 'abstain to fast, pray, and when you know you are fertile.' I think we need to trust God with every aspect of our lives, even our wombs.

kama'aina mama~ I guess I don't completely understand what you mean about the diaper. Maybe I shouldn't have compared it to that! If one of us doesn't feel up to having sex, we won't. If in the future, if one of us ever feels like not having another child, we would talk to God about it, but I can't imagine telling him I don't want any more of his blessings, and we would not ever think we would know better than him in this area, or any other. We both want God to be in control of whole lives, fertility included. I think he is doing a great job. We have sex whenever we want with no worries, and we have a 4 year old and a 2 year old (next week!) and I am not pregnant.

I don't think it says to abstain from sex 'as a sacfice.' We are very careful about adding to or taking away from the word of God. It does say we are to get married so we can have sex so we are not tempted, etc. I do not see how it would please God for married people to purposely abstain due to the fact that she is fertile and they are both in the mood, and possibly be tempted, as a sacrifice to him.

As for fasting, yes you need to be awake. But you do not have times of the month where it is better or worse for you to fast. You can fast anytime. I think it would be silly to plan to abstain from sex when you know you are ovulating, strictly for that reason. God never told us to do that. He told us to be fruitful and multiply, he called periods a 'sickness', and semen 'children', and children 'a blessing'.

I do think God has a different plan for everyone, but he wants everyone to follow the same guidelines- don't kill, etc. And I think trusting him with your fertility is one of those guidelines.

QF is NOT about having many children. It is about leaving the number of children you have up to God. You can be QF your whole life and have one child (or no children at all) and that was God's plan for you. Or you could have two children, or five, or nine. The point is that YOU didn't make that decision for your own human reasons- you left it in God's hands entirely. Just like a friend I have who has been QF since the day she got married and is now getting older and only has three. That was 100% God's choice, not hers. That is QF.

I think Abraham did have desentants like the stars. Desecnants are also grandchildren, great grandchildren... Also, didn't Jesus have two brothes and at least two sisters? But even if Mary only had Jesus, she still could have been QF, and God only gave her one child. Of course she was not a bad wife or Joseph a bad husband! Assuming they were QF, they had no say in how many children they had. That was God's doing so there was nothing bad about it.

I know not everyone agrees with this, but I think it is God's plan for women. Why else would he have made us this way and said the things he said in the Bible? I trust God to know what is best for me in all areas of my life, expessially important areas like children. How can someone think they know better and can make better choices than God?

I think QF is misunderstood- so again, it is not doing *anything* ever to prevent or achieve pregancy. It is leaving it all up to God and taking as many children as he gives, be it zero or be in ten. (You are NOT out to have 100 kids. If you tried to have kids, you would be doing your own will and not leaving it in God's hands, just the same as if you tried NOT to have kids.)

I think there is plenty of scripture to support being QF. I have yet to see any scripture that backs anything otherwise.

edited to add a very important "not"
post #35 of 45
dup post
post #36 of 45
I guess all I am saying is that much of Scripture is subject to interpretation and much can be lost by not looking at it in a historical context. And I think that there is a strong implication that specifically abstaining from sex is a sacrifice, as it is mentioned in the same context as fasting. I don't mean abstaining in the sense of "i don't feel like it today." I mean like "Let's agree not to engage in this for X number of days and devote that energy to praying and opening our hearts to G-ds will."
post #37 of 45
I agree, Perfectlove...I think the point when it comes to abstaining is what is in your heart...which, btw, no matter what we admit outwardly or inwardly to ourselves, GOD knows...HE knows all...
So, when we tell our husbands, "I don't really feel up to it right now", are we actually saying, "I know I'm fertile and I'm not wanting to get pg right now."? That is avoiding a blessing and trying to take control of GOD's plan...which should always be in HIS hands, not ours.
The point, for me, of QF is exactly what PerfectLove said...Leaving it to GOD, HE knows better than anyone what we can handle, what we need, what we desire.
It's not about trying to have as many children as you can either...It's being intimate with your husband when you or he feel inclined to do so and letting God decide if you will gain another blessing.
I want HIM to be LORD of my life...when I try to do it, I make a mess of things. HE is my FATHER and will protect, guide, and love me. Isn't HE wonderful!!!
Tina
post #38 of 45
Yes She is. And I believe She would want to hear from me, prayerfully, if I felt unready for that particular blessing so long as I was truly in accord that Her will be done.
post #39 of 45
can i ask y'all a question?

if you are quiver full, would that mean that you would not seek fertility treatments or to adopt a child?
post #40 of 45
I think adoption is fine if the child really needs a home. I think that falls under charity and caring for each other.

I personally would NOT choose fertility treatments. (But I can see where that could be a very hard call to make when someone really wants to have a baby of their own and can't.)



OT:
As far as God being refered to as 'he' or 'she'...
I *think* in the origionial language that there were no he/she pronouns. That they just called God either one of his names, or the gender neutral pronoun they used for everyone. If fact, one name 'El Shaddai' actually means 'breast' as in nursing. I am a little fuzzy on all of that, but I would not be suprised if God is genderless in some huge magnificant way we can't yet understand. (Not that I would have a problem with him being male, though!)
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