uc support thread #6, July - Page 8

[lovemygirl]

Originally Posted by *Mamajaza*

Hello my fellow unhindered childbirth supporters!!

Well, **SHE** is here! Born July 9th, 2004, at 12:53pm.I was so convinced I was going to have a boy. What a suprise. I don't have a name for her yet.

WONDERFUL!! YAY! Congratulations!! I was just thinking of you today!! I haven't been reading the thread here since last week : and I wondered if you had gone into labor. What a peaceful birth it sounds like!! Your girl is beautiful and the picture of you tandem nursing is so peaceful and loving.

way to go!!! :

[Aura_Kitten]

lovemygirl ~ i LOVE the quote in your sigline!

[lovemygirl]

Originally Posted by klothos

lovemygirl ~ i LOVE the quote in your sigline!

THANKS! I got it from a website that had lots of them...let me see if I can find the link...oh! Here it is: http://www.mother-care.ca/birth_quotes.htm

How are the hugs? Any today? Wishing you peaceful birthing vibes!!! I am sorry that the nipple stimulation isn't working! How about ingesting your partner's.....um.....ahem..."stuff"... LOL My friend always said that the prostaglandins work better when taken internally rather than "applied" to the cervix via intercourse. :LOL! HAVE FUN!

[Aura_Kitten]

the thought of internal prostaglandins make me feel like throwing up.

a couple of hugs.

the nipple stimulation only made me sleepy. i finally stopped because my girlies were getting sore.

so... she'll come when she's ready.

[lovemygirl]

Originally Posted by klothos

the thought of internal prostaglandins make me feel like throwing up.

I am sorry that its not a pleasant thought... perhaps when you are in the throws of it you could just hold your nose and swallow???? :


I dunno, I have only done that once and I wasn't pg and I can understand wanting to throw up! LOL!

Yep baby will come when you are relaxed and at peace and when he/she is ready! to you!

[Aura_Kitten]

perhaps when you are in the throws of it you could just hold your nose and swallow????

you know, i considered asking him to mix some of his... uh... prostaglandins with lemonade... but he said it would kill them.

we better stop talking about this though or the mods are going to come and shut the thread down.

[madrone]

I've got a question to all of you other UCers. How do you keep from letting others get to you? I mean, our western culture says that birth is dangerous. Rationally, I know that it isn't. I know that mortality rates have gone down in the past century and a half because of sanitation (I mean, human waste once polluted the streets -- it wasn't even close to being clean). When I hear of a baby being saved by modern medicine, I do know what modern medicine actually did. One of the saved babies I have in my mind was saved because of being induced at 34 weeks and the lungs not being developed. Another one, the doctors didn't actually do anything although the mother gives them credit. The hospital was full and there were not delivery rooms available, she was ready, so she started pushing out her baby alone in her labor room. A med-wife came in to check on her and panicked because she saw feet (causing mom to panic), had her stop pushing, and got doctors there. Supposedly, the baby's heart stopped beating 3 times. But the baby was in utero, the doctors did not perform any kind of resuscitation on the baby (I know "heart stoppage" was just the monitor not in the right place), and she did push out her breach baby, stressed, and with lots of medical professionals at her bum who probably walked off congratulating themselves. Rationally, I know that childbirth is safe and that assistance is needed only 5-10% of the time. I know that I am tuned in enough with my body to know if I need help and will seek medical assistance if I think it's needed. But there is a part of me deep within that these kind of things do get to. That wonders if I'm just crazy since everyone else around thinks it's so dangerous. I cannot express this thought to anyone else besides those of you on this particular thread. If I did, it would be used to try to get me to the hospital where babies are "supposed" to be born. Do you all have a part deep within that is somehow bothered by all the negative comments? By the "I've seen too many times" types of comments by the "professionals"? If so, how do you deal with that part? You can tell by the two persons described above that I deal with it through the rational part of my mind. If you don't have any part of you that it doesn't get to at all, how do you put away all the negative feedback western society sends out without it getting to you in any way?

[StacyL]

Madrone,

The best way to deal with negative medical advice is to stay away from the so-called "professionals." If you are having a normal, healthy pregnancy and don't have some sort of unusual pre-existing health problem that needs attention, then STAY AWAY from them! That includes midwives. If you are eating well, getting a little exercise, lots of sleep, and baby is growing and kicking, why visit the medical caregivers? (More like "scare-givers!")

I saw my OB and his midwives a few times early in my pregnancy, and had one ultrasound at 24 weeks. After that, I decided I'd had enough. And I haven't been back to see them. Every time I went there, it caused me sooo much emotional distress. I always ended up in some sort of debate or argument with them, and having to lie about having a homebirth stressed me out. I feel so much better now that I don't go there anymore! You just have to trust your body and have faith that it will be able to do exactly what God designed it to do. And if something were to go seriously wrong, you can always go to the hospital - they can't turn you away!

[DancerMom]

I just came on to say that we told my husband's parents about our decision and it was so calm. No drama at all. Of course they don't approve, but they're so misinformed and so completely resistant to any information that might make them feel better, that the only thing we can do is shrug and say oh, well. I did a LOT of meditation about this weekend and it went so well. I really believe that it helped...I have never seen my mil so calm. She didn't even cry, and she cries at the drop of a hat, whether something is sad or not.

Madrone, I know exactly what you're saying in your post, sometimes I feel the same way. I'm lucky in that I don't know any professionals to tell me horror stories, and most of the people I know are at least open, if not outright supportive. But as I was reading your post, I was thinking, do any of the people who think birth is so dangerous have any real information to back them up? I've been seeing this quote around the boards: "The plural of anecdote is not data" (or something to that effect). I mean, first of all, professionals in a hospital only see homebirths that transfer, and simply by being in a hospital, they are exposed to much more trauma in general, and that skews their outlook. But the other thing is, the people I talk to who are negative are truly going off emotion and misinformation (you know, one too many sitcom moms screaming away on her back and we're supposed to laugh).

My father in law gets the prize for funniest comment of the night...he was telling us that we were taking total responsibility for any negative outcome in this birth and said something about the risk of death being 3 to 4 times as great at home. I mean, he just plain made that up! If I had any close friends who were that misinformed, I might challenge them to find information suppoting how dangerous they think things are, but with my fil it's just not worth it.

I'm getting wordy, but my point is that for a normal, low-risk pregnancy, the evidence (including most of the studies done by the medical industry itself) supports homebirth, and people who think otherwise are just plain wrong. That is not even getting into the spiritual and emotional aspects of birth, or the idea that we can control our outcomes by being so in tune with our bodies (things that people like my in-laws can't begin to comprehend).

So I guess my answer to that question is that I remind myself of all the things I just wrote, and meditate on how wonderful my birth is going to be, and then I feel much better. I also do not have anyone immediately around me who is negative about birth, and if I did, I think I would distance myself for this time...this is just too important to be taking on other people's negative energy.

[cottonwood]

Originally Posted by DancerMom

"The plural of anecdote is not data"

That's great!

I mean, first of all, professionals in a hospital only see homebirths that transfer, and simply by being in a hospital, they are exposed to much more trauma in general, and that skews their outlook.

And hospital interventions skew birth!

My father in law gets the prize for funniest comment of the night...he was telling us that we were taking total responsibility for any negative outcome in this birth and said something about the risk of death being 3 to 4 times as great at home. I mean, he just plain made that up!

That is funny... but really not any funnier than that "5-10% of birthing women need assistance" that you see thrown around everywhere (no offense Madrone .) I'm not challenging the stats, I'm challenging the almost universal assumption that they represent situations in which nature fails of it own accord and the human mind and hands must be brought in to fix it. When in fact we have no evidence of this. What we do have is plenty of evidence -- millions and millions of cases -- that the natural process is routinely thwarted in some way by those human minds and hands, necessitating that we fix our mistakes. But the human mind is almost always either too ignorant or too conceited to see the part it plays in this.

What we know scientifically of the human body supports the idea that for a healthy woman (physically and emotionally well-nourished) with no congenital deformities of the pelvic region and no mental hindrances, whose labor process is fully undisturbed, there is very little opportunity for true natural error to take place. What the actual numbers would be, I can't possibly know. No one has ever done such a study, and very few women are giving birth under those conditions. What is remarkable to me that with SO many women giving birth under incredibly unideal conditions, that the number needing assistance is as low as 5-10%. That, to me, is a testament to the power and strength and resilience of the human body.

[Aura_Kitten]

(( long. ))

madrone, what a wonderful question. i have struggled with fears based on society's misinformation + my own doctor's scare tactics (not to mention all of the stories told to me by family + strangers alike). IMO, part of this experience has been learning to overcome those fears and learn the truth in their place.

for me, knowledge has been a great tool against fear. i have continually encountered things i was afraid of simply because i was ignorant of the evidence and truth behind them; after spending time researching the facts and arming myself with knowledge, i consistently assuaged my own doubts. i ask questions constantly.

i've also spent a great deal of time reading positive birth stories and woman-positive articles on pregnancy and childbirth (NOT easy things to come by in our culture). even when i wasn't pregnant, i spent hours at Laura Shanley's site ~ http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/ ~ reading all of the birth stories and UC articles.

i've read articles and birth stories dealing with how / when / why things "went wrong" and analyzing what happened and how it was dealt with, so i could deal with a similar situation if it arose.

i've researched the "warning signs" during labor + delivery, so i can recognize what is happening if my intuition tells me something may be amiss.

i've spent hours thinking about The Farm's statistics for birth, and how those truly reflect the impact non-intervention has on childbirth... and i've thought about how much lower even those numbers might be if the midwives stopped intervening even as much as they do (personally i feel, from the birth stories from The Farm i've read, that the midwives there are too hands-on).

i've made a conscious decision to stop discussing anything about birth with my dad, since he's always happy to bring up how birth is inherently dangerous, and how all women will die in childbirth if they don't deliver their babies at a hospital because they'll bleed to death ( ). comments like that give me a gut reaction ~ at first i am terrified, then i question my decision, and then i remember how absolutely ridiculous it is to think that women can't give birth on their own.

i've also spent a long time meditating on, thinking about, and visualizing the birth experience that i want... my baby... and the whole thing going smoothly. i hang on to those dreams i've had that have shown me that everything will be alright (and have tried my best to forget about all of the nightmares that were so far from any kind of reality they were surreal). hand in hand with this is all of the time i have spent reflecting on my first birth experience ~ what went "wrong," how disempowered i felt afterward, how severe my PPD was, and why.

i place a huge amount of faith in my own intuition and goddess-sense. i trust that i will know if i need assistance during birth... and i also trust that nothing will go wrong enough that i will. i trust in my body and my ability to birth the baby that it is growing.

i stopped seeing my OB around 37-38 weeks, after he began attempting to use mild scare tactics to get me to consent to tests i wasn't sure if i really wanted, and after he told me he prefers to deliver his babies all around 37 weeks, otherwise they're too big. note the language ~ "he delivers his babies" ~ that he used, and the inherent mistrust of women's bodies. he also told me that he feels his job is to protect the baby, regardless of what the woman wants or needs. so while i still like him as a regular doctor, and will be returning to him postpartum for my afterbirth care + routine non-pregnancy care, i can't imagine having him as my doctor for the actual labor and delivery. i just don't feel i can wholly trust someone who makes those sorts of comments.

and finally, i come here. there is nothing in the world as strengthening as finding one's own tribe.

[luna13mama]

Hello fellow UCers...

Congratulations mamajaza, your story of such a lovely, simple birth was touching and inspiring!!!!

I am trying to be patient as I wait for my baby to be in my arms. Now 41 weeks + 4 days and I have to admit that although I want to let my baby come when ready, it is hard and I am getting restless because I don't know what to do with myself except keep nesting inside and gardening in my yard! But honestly that's getting boring and I just want my baby here. I feel soooo ready and yet still I wait.

It doesn't help to get all the comments from neighbors, etc about me being "ovedue" (never again will I proclain an official due date) as if it is some expiration date. And I hate being asked about "what does your doctor/midwife think?" like I am in some grave danger with this baby being "late". One woman had the nerve to say "well, my dctor had a c section sceduled for 42 weeks in case I went overdue that far because he says the placenta *goes bad* after that point" Hmm...glad I'm not relying on the medical establishment for this birth! Sounds terrifying!

Just had to rant for a moment to some ladies who understand....

[nikirj]

For me, the medical establishment helped my decision. I had two medical-system pregnancies/births. I went to all my prenatals and was a good little patient (for the most part) in the hospital. But still, I never heard anything from my Dr. that I didn't already know (and I heard many wrong things), and at the hospital I didn't need any intervention at all (the Dr. involvement was basically throwing the baby onto me after my body threw the baby at him). This pregnancy, it's been easy to just say, no, I don't need someone to weigh me every month, hand me some fliers, pat me on the head, shove fingers into my vagina and proclaim everything "fine". As respectful as my doctors have been, it still hasn't been a picnic. I never heard a bad word about any of my decisions about prenatal care or birth, but STILL, there is this sense of asking permission. I'm tired of asking permission for my body to do what it is going to do - this time, I'm just going to let it.

The most stringent everyday-world negativity about UC comes from my mom (who we are lying to and saying we have a midwife). This is somewhat odd because she had 4 kids at home at a time when it just wasn't popular, and because she is very supportive of homebirth, but it perhaps isn't so odd when you consider that her own homebirths were attended by a Dr. who had been in practice for 40 years and attended several thousand homebirths. And the final straw for her was that a friend of hers decided to UC, but at the birth a single foot presented and her friend FREAKED OUT, labor totally stalled, and my mom rushed to her house and helped deliver the baby with some interventions (actually reached in to pull the other foot forward, and then the baby was born as if a standard footling breech), the head was briefly stuck, it was a nightmare. My mom is an RN and LC who does a lot of work on the L&D and newborn wards of her hospital, and has attended a good deal of births, but was still in over her head, being given a good deal of responsibility for this birth. I think she assumes I would be in waaay over my head too. She never told me the story of that birth, her friend told me about it years and years later, but I think that my mom's objections to UC come basically from this experience. To make a long paragraph short, I understand why my mom is so negative about UC and it makes her negativity easier to swallow.

My MIL on the other hand, has the standard birth-is-dangerous kind of ideas and we basically just laugh at her (not in front of her). Sometimes she says something so ridiculous that I can't help myself (ridiculous sayings are her specialty, seriously, she doesn't think before she talks, I think it is an actual mental disorder) and just laugh. She doesn't know we are UC either. She'd feel the need to "do something" and I know she already has the phone number for CPS.

DH and I don't want to UC because we think it is less dangerous. We want to UC because we believe it will be fulfilling for us individually and as a couple, and because we think it is the ideal way for a baby to come into the world. This has little to do with statistics, even though they do support us, so we haven't really done the numbers research. I know that epidurals increase the risk of c-section, that many, many more healthy babies born to healthy mothers die in a hospital than at home, and that in reality, a doctor doesn't have much of a role at a birth, but I can't convince anyone else of this. It just makes me more confident, and that is what really matters in a UC, after all - I don't have to convince anyone else, as long as *I* believe it, as long as I don't let myself have any hang-ups about it, my body will perform optimally and we'll all be just fine.

[madrone]

StacyL - Not seeing professionals doesn't actually get you away from there negativity. I'm not telling the professionals that I'm seeing that I want to have a UC, so I'm not getting anything about the dangers from them. I do have to see them though because of the system here. It's just that it's impossible to get away from it without staying in your home and just nesting through the whole pregnancy. Even on this thread.

Originally Posted by weesej

I have seen too many times where everything appeared to be fine yet baby was compromised to not want heart tones checked in labor, yet I don't want to be the one counting them and trying to analyze, KWIM.

Since this was posted in this thread, I don't think it's against the rules to site it. This is coming from a midwife apprentice considering a UC. I rationally can process things like this and know that I am tuned in with my body and since I will be un-imcumbered during the birth process, I will know. But it really is impossible to get away from these types of comments.

BlueViolet - That 5-10% number that I put in is really because I don't know what it actually should be. White says only 5% of Emergency Childbirths will have any complications. Seems like the UN says that any number above 10% for C's is unacceptable. I could be remembering those numbers incorrectly though. (I do have a pregnant mommy brain, you know.) Your arguments for this number being incorrect are compelling. Even though I want to UC and believe in my body, I do say things still that people might take incorrectly and put in that part deep within.

Thanks to all of you who have answered my question. Seems like a lot of us do the same things in rationally thinking about this.

[Hathor]

[QUOTE=luna13mama]

I am trying to be patient as I wait for my baby to be in my arms.


Just remember I went to 43 weeks 3 days! Keep your chin up, baby will come...(easy to say from this side, I know) I'm glad you wrote in, I was wondering about you...
Heather

ps. I'm trying to post my birth story but have a fussy baby! (a part of new motherhood that I selectively forgot about!)

[majazama]

My mom was the one in charge of the phone after the baby was born, and she told everyone that I had an unassisted birth. Suprisingly, all my relatives (aunts, grama) have just told me I am brave. I'm very shocked, I thought they would say something about the dangers that could have happened.

Baby is getting all fat now (finally). I don't like having such a skinny little baby. I'm not used to that.

Her umbilical cord is coming off. I've been putting echinacea tincture on it, and it really helps I think.

[cottonwood]

Madrone wrote: "White says only 5% of Emergency Childbirths will have any complications. Seems like the UN says that any number above 10% for C's is unacceptable. I could be remembering those numbers incorrectly though."

I don't think so, I've heard authoritative figures cite those numbers too. Ina May Gaskin is another that springs to mind.

[laurata]

Originally Posted by madrone

I've got a question to all of you other UCers. How do you keep from letting others get to you? I mean, our western culture says that birth is dangerous. <snip> Do you all have a part deep within that is somehow bothered by all the negative comments?

It does and it doesn't bother me. Sometimes other people really get to me. Most of my friends are homebirthers, but they are the worst of the lot, really. They claim to believe that birth is natural, normal... Yet the horror stories and anxiety that emerges when you mention unassisted birth. I have had moments when I could actually *FEEL* the fear suddenly emanating throughout the room. It was shocking and bizarre. Sadly, my way of coping with this issue has been to slowly cut back on how much I talk to other women about birth. I just don't discuss it AT ALL unless I'm feeling very safe and comfortable with whomever I'm with.

Birth is not dangerous. Birth is natural and normal, safe and divine! Even if they can't see that, it remains the truth.

I recently got a deck of prenatal yoga cards. They are great. 10 warm ups, 30 poses, and 10 meditations. Each of the poses has a short affirmation. The meditations are longer. I'm going to do at least one card each day, even if for nothing else but the wonderful affirmations.

[ChildoftheMoon]

Originally Posted by luna13mama

I am trying to be patient as I wait for my baby to be in my arms. Now 41 weeks + 4 days and I have to admit that although I want to let my baby come when ready, it is hard and I am getting restless because I don't know what to do with myself except keep nesting inside and gardening in my yard! But honestly that's getting boring and I just want my baby here. I feel soooo ready and yet still I wait.

I am right there with you luna13mama! And I am just shy of 40 weeks. I have never gone past 40 weeks (went into labor both times naturally too), so I just feel like this baby will come before then too right? But I am now beginning to think it may be longer, dh thinks I am still too agile to be so close to having a baby I am making my first big quilt, so that is keeping me pretty busy at the moment, and dh is home for a week so I have had some nice time to myself, but I am definately restless feeling at times!

anxiously, patiently (trying), excitedly awaiting my babe
Brandi

[Ame]

here here nikirj ....

As far as complications are concerned.... I read so much information and read so many stories that by the time it was close to the birth I had convinced myself that complications were unlikely and circumstantial. I believed ( and still do) that as long as your mind is clear of negativity and you envision a healthy birth - it will happen (even if there are difficulties you will resolve them by following your insticts). If an inevitable situation arises ( like a birth defect etc.) then that was meant to be and there was a reason you chose UC...even if the end result was not the "perfectly normal" baby.

To elaborate - Laura Shanley had one birth which resulted in a child who did not survive. He had a heart defect and would not have survived if he had been in the hospital. If she had given birth in the hospital she would have had added stress and drama to the situation.
My daughter was born without sight (she is also missing a peice of her brain and has a abnormally small head) but is otherwise perfectly healthy and normal (she has met all her milestones on time or early and is a vibrant child). If I had given birth in a hospital she would have been whisked away immediately and undergone numerous unecessary invasive procedures...I would have heard numerous "expert" predictions of the doom and gloom that lie ahead. We would have been kept apart for extended periods of time over a period of days and would not have bonded well. Instead she was born at home...peacefully (didn't even cry). We waited 24 hours and went to a midwife who noticed something different about her eyes and her soft spot and referred us to a ped. The ped is the most wonderful dr. I have ever met (let me re-phrase - the only). She sent us only for the basic tests on our own time and didn't give us any depressing predictions (only the specialists she sent us to did). She has remained supportive and completely and utterly impressed with Lucy (my daughter). UC saved her from much stress in her first few days and weeks of life. I have a strong feeling she spoke to me and sent me that direction (my other two were traditional hospital births).

My first two births were induced the day after I was "due" for no good reason. Lucy (my 3rd child and first UC) was born three days before her "due" date. Some things I think helped her enter the world in a "timely fashion" were red raspberry leaf capsules throughout pregnancy, Evening primrose for the last few weeks, frequent sex in the last month, visualisation, and talking to Lucy assuring her that it was Ok to come out and I would love her no matter what, etc.