Sometimes it DOES happen w/o consent

[A&A]

This is from "OBGYN News," April 15, 2000. The author is Dr. Bruce L. Flamm:



"During my residency 20 years ago, I had just finished doing about a half dozen circumcisions when a nurse rushed in and exclaimed that one of the infants she had brought to the nursery had no consent for the procedure.

Apparently no one had yet discussed circumcision with the parents, but I had already done the procedure.

My knees were weak as I walked down the hall to explain the situation to the parents.

What if they didn't want it done? Would my career end before it started?

As I arrived at the mother's room she was telling a nurse that her first boy was circumcised and she definitely wanted the same for this baby. Those were some of the nicest words I've ever heard.

Of course, things could have turned out much differently. This is the kind of lesson you never forget."


Too bad that mother didn't sue his a$$ off

[house elf]

My heart began to sink as I read that. I would be devastated if that happened to my son. MORE than devastated.. I don't think there's a word horrible enough for how I would feel! And people get this done to their sons willingly. I just don't understand it.

[nikirj]

This was such a nightmare for me with my second, born in a pretty big hospital that was very, well, institution-like in many ways. I stressed out about it from the moment we knew it was a boy. I never let him leave my sight, the entire time we were in the hospital (my DH held him if I went to the bathroom - no joke, we weren't leaving him alone EVER). After a THIRD nurse came in and cheefully handed me "circumcision care instructions" I LOST IT and actually yelled at her. I was so, so worried that it would somehow happen without my consent. I haven't heard of this happening anytime recently, but it was still a HUGE worry for me.

This is exactly the kind of thing that fuels my worries - the assembly-line manner in which many hospitals perform circumcisions.

[onlyboys]

My ped told me to not let my son out of my sight at the hospital. Not to let him go with ANY nurse EVER and not to let them do any assessment without my being there. He told me that once he performed a circ on a child whose parents had changed their minds that morning. He wasn't sued, but I don't think that he has forgiven himself. This came up after I said I was a freak w/my second boy and chased a nurse down the hall yelling. "He's not to be circed!!"

He flat out told me to never let my son out of my sight. That it happens all the time. He also said to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible to avoid any one there giving him formula or forcing glucose on him.

[copslass]

Am I the only one picturing that dr (or other drs) covering by going to the parents and "talking them into circ," never revealing the fact that it had been done without their consent?

Funny, just today I ran across another ap mom in a store. We started talking, one question led to another, and I couldn't believe that I was standing face-to-face with another mom who births with midwives, nurses in terms of years, doesn't vax or circ. Extremely unusual in my part of the US!!!

She mentioned that her now 12yo ds was circed without consent, but she hadn't researched it at that point, and would have consented anyway. Hospital simply had her sign the "consent form" after the fact. Somehow I doubt that's unusual. : Her younger boys are intact.

In 1944, my mother gave birth to a little girl, born still. One of her three roommates had a boy who was circ'd without consent. My mom has told me the story many times of how the mother went into hysterics, nurses gave her an injection to sedate her. The father came into the hospital and chewed the dr out. No lawsuits back then. Yes, that was a long time ago, but the lady I met today had it happen twelve short years ago.

It's always been a fear of mine.

[Acksiom]

My foreskin was amputated without my parents' consent in 1966. My mother is still angry about it to a degree of 9 on a scale of 1 to 10. It was a 9 originally, but decreased over the years to a 7 -- until I told her about the consequences to me, and my own feelings of violation, rage, and resentment. Then it returned to a 9 again on my behalf.

Should I ever have children, I will kill anyone who does the same thing.

Kill.

Not sue.

KILL.

[Aura_Kitten]

Andrew, i was just wondering why so many people here (on MDC i mean, not just this forum) seem so peaceful when it comes to the issues of their kids being threatened or harmed...

i'm right with you: if anyone did that to my child, they'd be dead.

[Raven]

Originally Posted by onlyboys

He flat out told me to never let my son out of my sight. That it happens all the time. He also said to get the hell out of dodge as soon as possible to avoid any one there giving him formula or forcing glucose on him.

I hate that so many babies are ABUSED and so many mothers treated like nothing but a woman who doesnt know better! :

[Acksiom]

Originally Posted by Raven

I hate that so many babies are ABUSED and so many mothers treated like nothing but a woman who doesnt know better! :

Yah, no kidding. Thanks to having my eyes opened by intactivists who are also informed and activist about 'alternative' ( oh yeah, people who work to re-humanize birth are 'alternative' ) birthing, when I talk to expecting parents now, I try to bring up the topic of all the options they have outside of the de-humanizing industrialized medical birthing model.

Not to mention how in the industrialized medical birthing model, fathers aren't even treated at all; when they're not being sidelined as merely irrelevant, they're being shut out as actively detrimental sources of 'interference'.

: Spare me.

[mattemma04]

Originally Posted by house elf

My heart began to sink as I read that. I would be devastated if that happened to my son. MORE than devastated.. I don't think there's a word horrible enough for how I would feel! And people get this done to their sons willingly. I just don't understand it.

>>>

I agree.If my son were circumcised I could not deal with it at all.

[~Jenna~]

This is so scary and is exactly why my next babies will be born at home. I was asked probably 10 times in the hospital if my ds was ready for his circ. I also found out they gave him formula and sugar water...I was angry and when I confronted the nurse she just said, well I didn't think it would be a problem.

Accidents happen *all* the time at hospitals. I have to admit that when I first started working I did do the wrong exams on the wrong people : but fortunately nothing I did was permanent.

[crysmomofthree]

I made sure that my last son never left my side, ever, ever, ever. In out hospital we have rooming in, and no nursery, I wasn't afraid of him being circusized without consent because they don't even do circs at the hospital where I birthed at. I was told if I wanted it done (which I didn't) I had to go to one specific dr's clinic and they would do it with anesthetic, (I don't think they have strong enough freezing for that type of procedure)
I just don't like anything done to me babies without me there to console them (blood tests, heel pricks, exams etc)

[Mommiska]

I had a home birth here in the UK with my ds, but this kind of thing makes me doubly glad I have never given birth in an American hospital (I thought that originally when I had both of my girls, because I was just naturally left to birth on my own with minimal checks, no strap-down fetal monitoring, etc. in the hospital's 'midwife-led unit' with both of my girls).

I, also, just could not deal with it if anyone circumcised my son. It blows my mind that there are parents who hand their child over willingly to have it done.

[Aura_Kitten]

Not to mention how in the industrialized medical birthing model, fathers aren't even treated at all; when they're not being sidelined as merely irrelevant, they're being shut out as actively detrimental sources of 'interference'.

that reminded me of this: Let us remember that conception is more often than not an intimate and sacred communion of three beings – mother, father and baby – so can be birth. ~ http://www.freestone.org/articles/Fr...eryMother.html

[LavenderMae]

I was so terrified that my son would be "accidently" circed. He did have to leave my sight for awhile because of low blood sugar issues, which I hadn't researched so they pretty much scared me into complying with them. I made sure I told every nurse& doc that I saw that my son was NOT being circed. They also asked me I don't know how many times.
If it had happened I would have lost it. I would have been so full of grief and so much anger. I'm not sure what I would have done but that hospital would still be talking about it!
All future babes will be born at home.

[TigerTail]

i squirted the nurse's paperwork with colostrum (from 4 ft away) when she tried to scare me into sugar water ('he's going to die, & you don't possibly have enough colostrum...'). she shut up pretty quick (and incidentally, his blood sugar went up to normal within 20 minutes.) i'm short with my words after long labors, lol.

i wouldn't let my boys out of my sight (or dh's, when i was being stitched up after the c-sec) either, for just these reasons. try cutting my son when my large scary dh is guarding his parts!

suse

[StephandOwen]

No comment on the circ issue but....

"i squirted the nurse's paperwork with colostrum (from 4 ft away) when she tried to scare me into sugar water ('he's going to die, & you don't possibly have enough colostrum...'). she shut up pretty quick (and incidentally, his blood sugar went up to normal within 20 minutes.) i'm short with my words after long labors, lol."

LMAO at this!!! :

[Annie]

I'm wondering if there is a website where we can get NO CIRC signs to put on the baby's bassinet, just in case they ahve to be separated from us. ITA about having someone go with babe at all times. I'd be furious if someone did this to my baby!

[Greaseball]

During my residency 20 years ago, I had just finished doing about a half dozen circumcisions when a nurse rushed in and exclaimed that one of the infants she had brought to the nursery had no consent for the procedure.

As opposed to all the other infants who somehow gave their consent for the procedure?

Why do we think it's the PARENTS whose consent matters?!

[Attached2Elijah]

I had a C-section so I was in the hospital for 4 days and I can't tell you how many times one of the nurses came in trying to take my son... They would tell me "We'll be right back with him" and every time I would ask "Where are you taking him and what are you doing with him?" Usually, it was just something simple like a sugar test and he would come right back... However, one time a nurse came in and started wheeling him out and I asked again, where they were taking him and she said "Oh, we're going to do his circumcision now" I hit the roof! I told her that I had NEVER signed anything for a circ and was completely against it and if she ever came back to take my son ANYwhere, she would deal with my wrath. I feel bad now because come to find out, it was the Ped who had wrote on his chart that he was to be circ'd after I told him specifically NOT to circ him, needless to say I told him off and told the hospital to never let the man near my son again or I would sue. They didn't and my son is still intact, no thanks to the idiots at the hospital. It's scary the things that they do routinely and just expect all parents to follow the "norm".