Biblical Fasting

[its_our_family]

Ok, in SS the past few weeks we were talking about fasting. To be specific we were talking about how in Luke 5:33-39 (also Matt and Mark) John's disciples and the Pharisees come to Jesus and ask... We are fasting but yet your disciples don't. Why?

In verse 34 it says (NIV) "Jesus answered them, "Can you make the guests of the bridegroom fast while he is with them? But the time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; in those days they will fast"

Now, I know he is "hinting" at the crucifixion. My question comes at the idea of fasting. Should we fast today? Because the bridgroom has been taken awsay and he has not yet returned. In SS they were saying that we don't have to fast because it was never commanded. But I'm wondering what it means when he says the bridegroom is with them. They were saying that once Christ ascended that he was "with them" and then the fasting could cease. But was he talking about the second comming. Becuase I don't see those 2 things being the same.

I know that one thing that Jesus did was to bring about a new law. In this same passage it talks about new wine in old wine skins. But I'm wondering just because Jesus didn't say "Fast when I'm gone" or "Don't worry about fasting anymore" doesn't really mean it was removed from the new law.

Does that make sense??

I was reading a book and it talked about how conservatives and liberals are alike in one area. They tend to pick and choose out of the bible the things that they like. For instance conservatives are big on baptism and such but they skip the idea of covered heads saying it doens't matter. Where as liberals may say that we need to be all inclusive in our beliefs but ignore the place where it says "I am the way the truth and the life..." (please note the use of conservative and liberal is loose).

Anyway, round about way of saying... Do you think that fasting should be a part of everyday Christian life?

Can someone help me out or am I jsut confusing?? or confused??

[~Megan~]

No, I think fasting should be used at special times for reflection.
I fast every month before communion. I use the time I would have used to eat for prayer and reflection.
I think fasting should be used before conventions and retreats for focus and increased prayer.
This is hard to do as a mommy though! As I only get in extra time when she is sleeping

[lilyka]

I consider fasting a tool of prayer. Of course we do not have to., We do not have to do anything we do not want to. We can sin up the hoo haa and still be completely sure of our salvation. Any time we keep the laws we do it to our pleaseure and benifit and to draw closer to God. Same with fasting. We do it to draw closer. Good enough for Jesus, good enough for me. I ast when my prayer life needs a boost. Hey, you aren't busy eating might as well pray :LOL also those hunger pains are great reminders to prayer. Also it is a way to offer up sacrifices.

As for all the talk of the bridegroom it is pretty clear to me that through out the Bible when ever they talk about the bridegroom they are refering to Christ. be it in the gospel or revelation. And we are the bride.

>>"They were saying that once Christ ascended that he was "with them" "<<
Uh, no he wasn't. he was assending. And even then the Holy Spirit didn't come until later so that isn't what they were talking about. Christ said several times stuff to the effect of "i am with you now but there will be a time that I am not with you . . " etc. . (sure I could look these up for you but my Bible is down stairs )I am pretty sure that the time he will be with us again is the second coming when he reigns over heaven and earth. That just seems really clear to me. and of course since we will live in his pressence and reign with him we will have no reason to fast or even pray then. we can approach him as sons and daughters, co-heirs and all that.

so that is my take on it.

[merpk]

Since today *is* a (Jewish) fast day, may I ask a question ...

What do you all mean by "fast"?

[its_our_family]

according to this part of scripture they were referring to a fast from food and drink. Fasting can be from anything... food, drink, tv, computer, MDC , vehicles... I guess anything that you have that serves purpose.. I think...

I thought my SS class was off on their basis to WHY in that particular scripture we don't have to fast. I'm not sure I was really happy with their explination but I couldn't get any of them to say anything more than...because.

[merpk]

Okay, next question (now that aforementioned Jewish fast day is over): In the story referenced in the OP, what was the particular fast that Jesus' disciples were apparently not participating in?

[its_our_family]

The question that was asked was... "John's disciples often fast and pray and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours go on eating and drinking."

There isn't a specific fast mentioned.

[PurpleBasil]

1. How do you know Jesus was hinting at the crucifixion?

2. Jesus said not to worry about when or what one eats. Or wears. Or anything. Why should one concern oneself with fasting if we are not to concern ourselves with when or what we eat?

[its_our_family]

Typically when referring to the bridegroom he was talking about crucifixion and second coming. he is the groom the church is the bride type stuff.

Can you give me scripture reference to what you said in point 2? That is what I'm looking for and can't seem to find it!

[DaryLLL]

Originally Posted by merpk

Okay, next question (now that aforementioned Jewish fast day is over): In the story referenced in the OP, what was the particular fast that Jesus' disciples were apparently not participating in?

Yes, Amy, a few verses would help, wouldn't they? Here it is in Mark 2:18-22. The other synoptics have similar verses:

Now John's disciples and the Pharisees were fasting; and people came and said to him, "Why do John's disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?"
And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast.
The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day.
No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; if he does, the patch tears away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear is made.
And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; if he does, the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost, and so are the skins; but new wine is for fresh skins."

As you can see, the reasons the "Pharisees and John's disciples" (rival Jewish reformers) were fasting is not specified. It is implied in Luke and Matt that they fast "often," we can assume on traditional holy days.

Oddly Jesus, the "ultimate sacrifice," speaks against sacrifice (ie: fasting, or any other sacrifice), as do some Jewish prophets previously, here:

Mat 9:13- Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.' For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners."

The other synoptics leave out this embarrassing tradition.

[PurpleBasil]

Originally Posted by its_our_family

Can you give me scripture reference to what you said in point 2? That is what I'm looking for and can't seem to find it!

Matthew 6:25-34 NKJV) {25} "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? {26} "Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? {27} "Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature? {28} "So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; {29} "and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. {30} "Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? {31} "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' {32} "For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. {33} "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. {34} "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

[its_our_family]

Originally Posted by DaryLLL

The other synoptics leave out this embarrassing tradition.

What embarassing tradition?

Sorry, I just gave the reference and not the actual verses.

[DaryLLL]

Originally Posted by its_our_family

What embarassing tradition?

Somehow the evangelist thought it neccessary to include the traditional saying of Jesus when he spoke against sacrifice, despite the later tradition that he was a sacrifice. Whoopsy!

As far as your quote "do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink," etc., I do not see this has anything to do with the neccessity of fasting or not.

[its_our_family]

Originally Posted by DaryLLL

Somehow the evangelist thought it neccessary to include the traditional saying of Jesus when he spoke against sacrifice, despite the later tradition that he was a sacrifice. Whoopsy!

As far as your quote "do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink," etc., I do not see this has anything to do with the neccessity of fasting or not.

I don't think the scripture is referrig to the same either. I like that section though

I'm thinking that the sacrifice/mercy thing he is referring to is also not the same as the sacrifice that he is. I'll have to look though but not enough time...

[merpk]

Not knowing how interested anyone is, but it is relevant. These are the fasts that your scripture might be referring to:

About the fast days: the "minor" fast days, Tisha b'Av, and Yom Kippur.

The minor fasts are sun-up to after-sundown. The fasts on Yom Kippur and Tisha b'Av are from before sundown and through the next day until after-sundown.

There is also a custom some observe of fasting on Mondays and Thursdays, which is along the lines of a minor fast ... meaning that it is from approximately sun-up to after sundown.


Yom Kippur is Biblically commanded, the others are described/explained in the Talmud. So any of these could be the referred-to unobserved fasts.

Just an interjection from one of the local Jewish folks ...

[JessicaS]

I really feel that is up to your personal relationship with God and what you get from it.

Some find great solace in fasting and feel it really helps them in their personal relationship in that they are giving something up in their time of reflection.

I don't fast because well..I am not certain I would get much from it spiritually I wasn't brought up in a church that fasted and it was never a part of my spirituality. When I am feeling more reflective I tend to spend more time studying the scripture and that is pretty much what works for me.

In my opinion if it works for you, then that is great.