Why are Christian parents afraid of Pagan influences?

[manitoba_mommy]

The spiritual movie thread made me curious about this, why does the idea of your child getting exposed to non Christian themes and influences bother you so much? I honestly want, no, need to understand this. I am not trying to start a war or anything here, just open the lines of communication, why are other beliefs so dangerous to you?

I tried putting myself in your shoes, but I couldn't. For instance, my kids have watched "Joseph king of dreams", "veggie tales" and "Prince of Egypt" and I was fine with it. All I did was tell them about the beliefs of others and how different points of view make the world far more interesting.

Do you honestly think Pagans are so wrong that the very ideas they have are inherently harmful to your child? What about other belief systems, do you feel the same way about them?

Help me understand this please because I am very hurt and confused right now.

MM

(ps; above I am using the generic you)

[KermitMissesJim]

Depends on the influence. Mother goddess stuff? Fine. True Satan-worship? No way. (By true I certainly do not mean Harry Potter, those books and movies are fun and harmless. I actually cannot think of one devil-worship kids movie, so I think we're ok for a while anyway.) Guess I should read that movie thread; I might understand better.

[manitoba_mommy]

The comments were made about the movie Brother Bear, not Satan worship or anything like that. Just your average, run of the mill, shamanistic beliefs.

For the record I would not let my child watch anything that glorified hatred or violence either (ala hollywood satanic images).

MM

[KermitMissesJim]

Brother Bear is with me. I've only managed to catch 5 minutes of it, but man, the moose are funny!

Off to read that thread...

[Arduinna]

What does Satan worship have to do with pagan influence? There is no Satan in the various pagan pantheons. And really I'd suggest some education of what Satanism is, it isn't worshipping evil. here is a link for those wishing to clear up the common misconceptions http://www.churchofsatan.org/faq.html

and no I am not a satanist, I'm a hellenic (read greek) polytheist

[KermitMissesJim]

I forgot to mention that I don't believe Satan-worship is Pagan. I think it all gets lumped together.

[DaednuSO]

Depends on how you define "Christian"

You have to understand that there are some people who consider Christianity in a very very literal sense. I'm sorry if this post comes across as judgmental and scoffing, it isn't. But there really are people who literally believe this.

According to them, you're a vile, evil, cretinous worthless wretch that God hates and wishes to entirely burn, forever, which is a sod of a long time, just for having been born, never mind that little white lie you told in grade school which'll condemn you never mind anything else.

However, God being a good and gracious and loving God, nailed himself in human form to a tree after several hours of scourging, whipping, flogging, beating, etc. for further reference see St. Mel Gibson's excellent depiction of the whole thing in ultragory sadomasochistic detail. And if you believe he did this to spare your worthless soul, you will inherit heaven, where you can Lord it over the damned.

If you don't, in fact if you have ANY DOUBT on the subject, Satan can get his little claws into you and tear you from this sanctified existence. And Satan loves nothing more than to rip people bodily from salvation - so he creates things like Ellen Degeneres, the doctrine of Evolution, dinosaur bones, Disney movies, hippies and the like to engender doubt in people as to whether or not the King James Bible is the literal truth dictated directly to its transcribers in English.

According to these doctrines, you could have been Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS all your life, with a collection of eyeballs in a jar you pulled out of the skulls of screaming babies for fun - but on your deathbed, cry out "I'm sorry, and I believe you are are Lord" and everything's forgiven. Or you could be the Dalai Lama, it don't matter, ain't about good or evil but saved or lost.

So yes, these people care about Disney movies, Native beliefs being taught in schools, secular humanism, evolution, this newfangled science stuff or the Ecumenical movement. These people literally do believe that your kids can become drug-addicted sex fiends if you make the mistake of bringing playing cards (which were occult talismans from Ancient Egypt, where they burned babies in the fire, see Pheloponecians 3:14 and Derek 5:9 for details) into your house. DEMONS CANNOT COME IN UNINVITED. DON'T INVITE THEM.

They couldn't give a flying rat's backside if the content of the Disney movie is love your neighbour and don't hurt any of your fellow creatures. If it doesn't have as its prime motive convincing you to accept Christ as your Lord and Saviour it is a conduit for demons, because the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS ACCEPTING CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

[manitoba_mommy]

I should have mentioned the whole "no Satan in Pagan" idea above where I mentioned the whole Hollywood image thing, but I did not have any links handy and felt too lazy to go out and find them. Thank you for the clarification that I should have made Arduinna.
Anyhow, you are right, Satanic influences have no place in this thread, unless of course people are from the school that "if it isn't Christian it IS Satanic".

MM

[Free Thinker]

Satanists don't believe in Satan either :LOL I remember when I first found this out. I think alot of people are misinformed about other religions. I'll give my personal experience. My parents never allowed us to go to any other denomination/church EVER when we were growing up. We were told by my parents what each den. believed. When I was actually old enough to talk to others about it, I found my parents where extremely biased, and incorrect on alot of what they said/taught. Sadly, they still believe this way, and will not dare to any research, or ask another den. what they believe. This has really swayed my views today. I plan to teach my daughter to listen to ALL beliefs, and evaluate them all. To be honest, though, I don't plan to actually teach my DD about religion until she is older, so no Veggie Tales here, but I'm open to anything that doesn't actually preach at kids. Things such as the King of Egypt, Brother Bear, ect. will not bother me.

[manitoba_mommy]

Hmmmm, hey DaednuSO, did I just push the blinky red button? :LOL

In all honesty, what you wrote is exactly what I am afraid of, but I realy, realy, REALY did not expect to see it here of all places! Kinda bummed me out that it is so all pervasive.

MM

[manitoba_mommy]

Hey Free Thinker, I just wanted to clarify, I did not exactly encourage my kids to watch Veggie Tales! They saw it at a friends house, I am not even sure about the exact content, but I do know it was not a huge deal for us. We just explained about different belief systems around the world and a little bit about Christianity specificaly.

MM

[Quillen]

Personally, I am Christian (LDS, in specific) and I don't have a problem with the kids (dd now 8 months) learning about a variety of religions someday. IMO, I can't see how Brother Bear wouldn't be harmless, unless Disney put something randomly unappropiate in it,. There are a few disney movies I see as questionable.

Personally, I had a hard time imagining this being an issue. The whole "As I have loved you, love one another" covers a great deal on how a Christian is ideally going to behave. There have been many times I've had to remind myself that while I think the idea is perfect, people tend not to be.

I think there may be some Christians who are more into finger pointing in comparison. I know a few people of a demonination who believe Harry Potter teaches witchcraft, irregardless of what I say and they refuse to read the book. There are some things I would avoid strongly, like pornography and anti-LDS material, but otherwise I feel that one of my goals on this earth is to learn and better myself. Of course, putting others down in the progress does not make me better.

[indie]

I don't think the problem for most people is having their children exposed to other beliefs. It is having their children indoctrinated. The problem is there is really a fine line between the two. When does one go from sharing one's faith to proselytizing? I've never seen the Brother Bear movie so I can't weigh in. I have seen Veggie Tales (in fact my toddler is obsessed with them). I don't think I would let her watch them if we weren't Christians. They are pretty out in the open about what they are trying to teach so I think it would be easy to have a talk about them. So movies try to teach in a more underhanded way. These are the movies I worry about because children haven't developed the skills to understand the intent behind the message.

I will say that DaednuSO's reaction is a little extreme. Most Christians aren't like that. Just because someone makes the decision that they don't think a movie is appropriate for their child doesn't mean that they are a wacko.

[manitoba_mommy]

I guess one of my biggest problems is the casual way people talk about "pagan influences". I mean, on the other thread (yeah, I am coming close to moderation, but it has to be said to explain what I mean I think) people were actualy warning each other about how "Pagan" the movie was! I mean, can you imagine reading a thread about spiritual movies and coming to a reference about a Jewish film (can't think of one for kids right now) and having the next poster say "Warning! There is STRONG Jewish content! You might want to watch it before you decide to let your kids be exposed to it!" and the other person coming back with "Oh thank you! I never would have thought to make sure it was not too Jewish!" (not a direct quote btw). In that hypothetical exchange I think it sounds like the person is implying that Jewish beliefs and values are definetly not something that someone would want their kids exposed to. If I were Jewish I would be very offended and sad that someone thought my beliefs were not child friendly and as anyone else I would object because it sounds biggoted.

So, please, could one of the Christians who were issueing warnings about how "Pagan" Brother Bear is please reassure me that that was not what you were implying? If you can't do that could you at least explain to me please why my beliefs are such a threat?

MM

[EFmom]

Christians come in a variety of flavors. I'm a Christian and I have no problem whatsoever with my kids being exposed to other religions. I've talked to them myself about how off the mark the popular media representations of "witches" are whenever the chance presents itself.

Actually, I'm much more concerned about my children being exposed to fundamentalist Christian stuff than I am about pagan faiths. I think there's way more opportunity for confusion, since my personal belief is that most fundamentalism is un-Christian in nature.

[mocha09]

I just read that entire thread, and the only references to it begin pagan were about how they *liked* that it had pagan overtones, not warnings....maybe that's why you'r enot getting a response, because there were not any warnings (that I could find?)

The only person who thought it was not good for her kids did not want her child(ren) to think that animals had spirits or were in any other way on the same spiritual level as humans.

[Faith]

I don't have any idea about the other thread- I never saw it, but I thought I would give my two cents here...

I am a Christian, and we do limit our children's exposure to pagan things, like Brother Bear. I don't see them as a "threat" and I am not "afraid" of them in any way.

The way I look at it is really like a lot of moms here look at everything else. Many moms here do not allow certain things in their homes, such as junk food, Disney movies, 'corporate logos' like cartoon characters or some brands of clothing, dolls with bottles, free samples of formula, books they consider 'twaddle,' anything bought at Walmart, a television set, etc, not because they are "afraid" of them, but because they have what they consider to be a better way for themselves.

I don't see this as any different than moms with strong beliefs following them, and not allowing certain influences (in the form of movies or whatever) until their children are older and can understand things better. I see it as my job to ground my children in the Bible, before exposing them to many opposing view points. I will expose them to other religions, but not now at three and five, yk?

There are moms who won't let their DC be exposed to Christanity, and it does not offend me. Some are Jewish, some are pagan, some might be something else, and they do not want their children to hear about Christainity until they are older. I don't assume they "fear" Jesus or something, I just think they are doing what they feel is right.

There are verses in the Bible that tell us to teach our children the way they should go, to not be like the pagans, etc, etc, and all these Christians are doing is trying follow their religion as best they can. There isn't anything wrong with that.

I am sorry you are offended. It is easy to be offended about religion. I have been offended by many of the references to my religion here, but I just try to forget about it, because this is one area where everyone is simply not going to agree.

As for what DaednuSO said, I don't know any Christains like that! I am a Christian, and we are not like that at all! I guess there could be some people like that out there somewhere, but all religions have some 'different' people in them.

[karen ann]

manitoba_mommy:

I grew up in a pagan household; both of my parents are Wiccan. The "Christian fear of pagan influences" goes wayabove and beyond the odd Disney flick. When I was in high school(!!!) I had classmates who were forbidden by their parents to socialize with me. I also had acquaintances who sought me out wanting to play at Wicca to wig out their fundamentalist parents simply because I was the first non-monotheist they met.

DaednuSO's example was exreme and by no means universal, but I have experienced this attitude first hand, to varying degrees, directed at me and my family since my early childhood. As a young'un I had playmates tell me I'd "burn down where the devil lives" because my "mommy and dady worship evil and hate goodness". At a Halloween party one year, a classmate dressed as a storybook-style witch (green makeup, warts, etc.) and told her friends she was dressed as "KarenAnn's mommy", because her parents told her my mom was a witch (when they forbade her from playing with me). *This* is the type of thing I think constitutes "Christian fear of pagan influences", not "this children's movie has pagan over(or under-)tones".

I have no problem with people not wanting young children to watch whatever film or show for whatever reason. I don't let DS watch VeggieTales in part because of the prevasive Christian content (yes, I have seen some myself, and I was told in advance that they were Christian videos)(and partly because talking produce gives me the willies)... he's 3½, and I think it's my responsibility to steer him towards the values I hold until he's old enough to consider and evaluate these things critically. When he's older, my DS will be allowed to choose for himself whether or not to see books, movies, TV, etc. with Christian content. I don't know what age yet exactly; it will depend a great deal on his maturity level. And I don't have a problem with Christians (or any other believer of any other faith) taking the same stance with their youngsters.

[moon_goddess]

SATAN does NOT = PAGAN

here is a great thread that you all should check out: http://p082.ezboard.com/fforum42xianity
specifically:
http://p082.ezboard.com/fforum42xian...picID=29.topic

where do people get the idea that pagans worship the devil??

[Faith]

I think the Bible talks about anyone who does not worship God is under the control of the evil one...

Just trying to be informative!
I know there is a difference between pagans and devil worshipers.