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Where are all these supposed unsupportive pro-lifers? - Page 3

post #41 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by grisandole
Oh yes, there are so many homes just waiting to adopt special needs kids

Go to www.adoptuskids.org


Kristi
Just out of curiousity, don't a lot of parents choose to do overseas adoption because of the cost and red-tape of adopting here? I admit I don't know much about it... paying a $1250 midwife's fee was a lot of money for us, I can't imagine coming up with thousands of dollars to adopt. I those who are able to do so and do it!
post #42 of 118
That's another thing I wish would change - that those wanting to adopt children would be able to, even if they were not married or heterosexual or high-income.

So not only do we have all these kids no one wants, we have a lot of people who want to adopt kids but who will never be "approved."
post #43 of 118
I am sure there are organizations on both sides that care only about an agenda, and not about people. I have seen as many hateful, terrible pro-choicers as I have pro-lifers (and I've seen a lot of both).
FTR, I am adamantly pro-life and I support welfare and any other form of help a mother needs, no matter what her decisions are or whether she has all the premarital sex in the world. I do not support decisions I don't agree with, morally (like, I wouldn't escort a mother into an abortion clinic) but I certainly wouldn't try to hurt her ocne the deed was done, nor would I try to punish her. If a woman had an abortion but needed help, I would help her. If she needed counselling or money or housing, I would do my best.
post #44 of 118
What I especially don't get are the pro-lifers who want to deny Medicaid to BABIES! (Oh, and to pregnant women.) So now that you've done your duty and gotten the mom to give birth, the baby should not get its medical care funded?!

I'd say that such pro-lifers, as well as those who are against welfare and housing assistance, should come here and explain their positions, but I know I would not be able to refrain from judging them and it would just turn into a huge attack.
post #45 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greaseball
They leaned heavily toward adoption/foster care for unmarried pregnant teens. They also encouraged marriage. Sorry, but I think getting married as a teen is more harmful than being a single parent. (Not to say it can't work, but most of the time, I don't hear good stuff about it.) They even gave me a booklet that said people who co-habitate are likely to experience domestic abuse, but that the risk level drops if they get married! (No, actually it gets worse.)

I had a really good job when I got the surprise news I was pg with dd and ended up having a lot of complications and a lot of bed rest which caused serious financial issues. I ended up going to my local CPC and talk about a shock! I had to listen to over an hour of preaching about how sinful I had been and they were seriously trying to talk me into giving dd up for adoption and even offered me a place to live that was several hours away with a family but I would have to attend church and bible studies daily and give the baby up yada yada yada if I wasn't going to marry the father who had violence and drinking problems. They weren't to happy when I declined, I was 24 years old for crying out loud! I had a good job and would be fine financially as soon as I was off bed rest. Anyway they never have indicated they were religious based or else I doubt I would have ever gone in there for maternity or baby clothes. I donated a bunch of stuff about a year later and mentioned I would like to have another baby one day they about hit the roof and started in about how I need to get married first and what not. I no longer donate anything to them instead I give to a local org that will give to any mother in need without harassing them

I think some of this abortion stuff just goes to far, like last month I thought I was having a heart attack and had to park on the other side of the hospital which is right next to an abortion clinic and there were protesters out there and they were trying to stop me from going to the hospital so they could tell me about all the things that go on in the clinic. I had no idea is was an abortion clinic (I don't live in that city, it was just the nearest hospital) and at that point my only goal was to save my own life but yet these people were more interested in showing me pictures and yelling at me then getting me a friggin wheel chair and helping me into the hospital. I have no sympathy for either side at this point.
post #46 of 118
Quote:
It's like we are speaking different languages. I trust women. I think women should completely own their bodies and reproductive choices. Therefore, I cannot "push" women in any direction when it comes to those choices.
ITA.
post #47 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by busybusymomma
Does not the same thing apply to abortion? The same applies for Planned Parenthood... some strongly suggest abortion from the word go and others offer it as a choice and mention adoption etc. Again, it depends on management.
Pro-choice means exactly that. Planned Parenthood does not push abortion "from the word go". It offers abortion as a choice, just as it offers continuing a pregnancy and adoption as choices. If a Planned Parenthood clinic is pushing abortion, they are not doing their job and they are going against the mission statement and intentions of Planned Parenthood.

I'd love to see links to nationally recognized anti-abortion organziations that provide links and information to safe, legal abortion. I seriously doubt such a thing exists but I'd love to pleasantly suprised.

From the Planned Parenthood website:

Pregnancy and Parenting: Planned Parenthood is dedicated to the principles that every individual has a fundamental right to decide when or whether to have a child, and that every child should be wanted and loved.

Scroll down on this page to see non-coercive information about adoption.
post #48 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugmadmama
Pro-choice means exactly that. Planned Parenthood does not push abortion "from the word go". It offers abortion as a choice, just as it offers continuing a pregnancy and adoption as choices. If a Planned Parenthood clinic is pushing abortion, they are not doing their job and they are going against the mission statement and intentions of Planned Parenthood.
There are moms here at MDC who have had this experience. But then again, since these moms are what you call anti-choice (love the name calling- not) you can choose to believe them or not.
post #49 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by busybusymomma
There are moms here at MDC who have had this experience. But then again, since these moms are what you call anti-choice (love the name calling- not) you can choose to believe them or not.
Forgive me, but what's wrong with the phrase anti-choice? Are pro-lifers in favor of a woman's right to chose or not?

And no, pro-abortion would not be a fair word for someone who is pro-choice, most of us are not so much interested in seeing more abortions occur as we are with the belief that women should be free to make the choice.

Please, if pro-life does not involve the absence of choice, tell me what it does involve. Not trying to be snarky, just curious if I've missed part of the equation.
post #50 of 118
I think there is also a mindset that SOME (not by any means all or most) pro-choicers have that I have experienced, where they think that because a woman did not have an abortion, she deserves no help.

I chose not to abort my DD and to continue to go to college. My DH does the same, but because of it, we rely heavily on federal loans to go to college, and my DD has Medicaid. We consider it a good choice, because as soon as we graduate, we'll be in good jobs and be able to pay them back and we'll ( I hope!) be members of the community who give back. But we have encountered flak from many of our pro-choice acquaintances, who think that because we chose to keep our DD, we should be totally self-reliant and not use any federal loans to help with school costs, and should not use Medicaid (silly, as we barely ever see the Dr, anyway). They think we had our choice to get out for free, with an abortion, and since we made this choice, too bad for us if we need help.

Again, I don't think there are generalizations to be made. We all need to do whateveer we can to help women and children.
post #51 of 118
I got a lot of flak for TTC as a college student who relies on food stamps and Medicaid. These people would have called themselves pro-choice, but really they were pro-abortion for those who they considered unworthy of reproduction.

Others have told me they got the same attitude from Planned Parenthood - they were discouraged when they wanted to parent or TTC because they weren't "ready" in someone else's eyes.
post #52 of 118
Those acquaintances need a good talking to. It's like the whole WAHM or WOHM issue... feminism is about choice, so I can be a feminist and stay at home with my kids OR go to work. Some people get all worked up about the extreme side of an issue and fail to see the root issue. I'm sorry these people took this stance with you. It's really quite deplorable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissinNYC
I think there is also a mindset that SOME (not by any means all or most) pro-choicers have that I have experienced, where they think that because a woman did not have an abortion, she deserves no help.

I chose not to abort my DD and to continue to go to college. My DH does the same, but because of it, we rely heavily on federal loans to go to college, and my DD has Medicaid. We consider it a good choice, because as soon as we graduate, we'll be in good jobs and be able to pay them back and we'll ( I hope!) be members of the community who give back. But we have encountered flak from many of our pro-choice acquaintances, who think that because we chose to keep our DD, we should be totally self-reliant and not use any federal loans to help with school costs, and should not use Medicaid (silly, as we barely ever see the Dr, anyway). They think we had our choice to get out for free, with an abortion, and since we made this choice, too bad for us if we need help.

Again, I don't think there are generalizations to be made. We all need to do whateveer we can to help women and children.
post #53 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissinNYC
I think there is also a mindset that SOME (not by any means all or most) pro-choicers have that I have experienced, where they think that because a woman did not have an abortion, she deserves no help.
I think that attidude just sucks (for the lack of a better word). I am pro-choice and in no way feel that way. I think all women should be helped if they are in need no matter what choice they make. Medicaid is for people like you (and me too) who can't afford medical insurance for their children, I mean who do your friends think should get it or do they think it (medicaid) shouldn't exist at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissinNYC
Again, I don't think there are generalizations to be made. We all need to do whateveer we can to help women and children.
I completely agree!!!
post #54 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by busybusymomma
There are moms here at MDC who have had this experience. But then again, since these moms are what you call anti-choice (love the name calling- not) you can choose to believe them or not.
What name calling???

If a Planned Parenthood counselor pushed a woman towards abortion, that person is not doing their job correctly. If an anti-choice clinic worker pushed a woman into not having an abortion, they are doing their job correctly. See the difference?
post #55 of 118
A pro-life thread was recently crashed by pro-choice moms who in turn called us anti-choice. That would be like me calling a pro-choice mom anti-life, and from what I understand that's not allowed.
post #56 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by pugmadmama
What name calling???

If a Planned Parenthood counselor pushed a woman towards abortion, that person is not doing their job correctly. If an anti-choice clinic worker pushed a woman into not having an abortion, they are doing their job correctly. See the difference?
But isn't that what you expect from a crisis pregnancy center? That tends to be their philosophy!
post #57 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by busybusymomma
A pro-life thread was recently crashed by pro-choice moms who in turn called us anti-choice. That would be like me calling a pro-choice mom anti-life, and from what I understand that's not allowed.
I see your point, but I still don't understand why "anti-choice" is wrong. "Anti-life" implies that pro-choicers are actively trying to PUSH people into abortion, not simply fighting for their right to CHOOSE an abortion. I have to ask, what is inherently wrong with the phrase "anti-choice"? Pro-lifers fight so that women do not have the CHOICE to abort. Is it one of those phrases that means one thing in bare bones semantics but has a social stigma attached? Again, not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand the politics behind these phrases.
post #58 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by phathui5
I did a home visit with a mom from WIC today whose "pro-choice" friends all pressured her to have an abortion as soon as they found out she was pregnant. None of them offered her any practical help. They told her that since she wasn't having an abortion, then she got what she deserved. So she's taking care of her newborn twins with hardly any help. The only help she's getting is from her (pro-life) church, medical assistance, and WIC. Where are the helpful pro-choice women there? The way they saw it, if she didn't want an abortion, she wasn't making the right decision and they weren't going to help her.
Here's a pro-choice mom with a helpful hint from afar--please help this mom find a local chapter of MOTC (mother of twins clubs). Almost all of them have benevolent funds/programs, and they will be able to support her in the gaps--and offer her special fellowship as well.
post #59 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by busybusymomma
A pro-life thread was recently crashed by pro-choice moms who in turn called us anti-choice. That would be like me calling a pro-choice mom anti-life, and from what I understand that's not allowed.
Why the eye-roll after "anti choice"? "Anti-life" is obviously inaccurate. In fact, it's just silly.

Pro-choice means just that, you support a woman to make her own choice once she is pregnant. Anti-choice means you think women shouldn't have that choice in the first place or you think the government is in a better position to make the choice of who should be allowed to have an abortion than individual women. Isn't that your position? Why is that name calling?

The term "pro life" is like the term "partial birth abortion". Both are misnomers, both are propaganda. I refuse to be bullied into using made up terms that make no sense.
post #60 of 118
Just like we don't have the "choice" to kill a baby after it's born, I don't think we can call it just a "choice" when a woman is pregnant with a baby (call it generic names like fetus or embryo if it makes you feel better). I'm not anti-choice unless it means ending another life when that life is not threatening yours. So while I respectfully call you "pro-choice" because that's what you want to be called- pro-lifers are continually called "anti-choice". I just don't get the thing about respecting choices and not name calling and why it doesn't happen for certain people.

But I don't want to argue about it, you're not going to change my mind about it and I doubt I'll change your mind.



PS- pathui5- sorry to have gone T!
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