What do you think about mothers who DO NOT want to nurse, but want to EP?

[buttercup]

Since I had very little response from my previous post, maybe you can help me w/ this one.

With this issue, I am talking about mothers who choose from the beginning that they want to EP w/o actually nursing? I do want to exclude women who have been sexually abused from that category...it speaks for itself.

As BF advocates, we have said over and over providing MM to baby is still breastfeeding. Do you look upon a woman who EPs w/o trying to nurse differently that a woman who struggled to get her baby to nurse for several months and decided to continue to EP?

Many women may choose to EP because they are 'just uncomfortable' with nursing. They are choosing to go through the trouble of providing the baby w/ MM despite their own personal discomforts about nursing. So technically, we 'won' over formula.

If you encounter a mother who is automatically choosing formula - Would you offer the possibility of EPing? There is always the possibility that she would love to provide MM, but wants the 'freedom' to leave the baby (don't attack me on that issue because I was just using it as an example). EPing could be a good suggestion.

[carrietorgc]

I think more women "fall into" eping than we think. My neighbor had a baby that was a slow nurser and had to fight wiht him to get a good latch. since she was returning to work part time at 12 wks, by about a month she was moving towards eping. She never had a problem pumping enough and fell into an easy routine.

That said, she did wean at 6 mo to formula. I think just b/c she didn't see anything wrong with it and when she asked the ped the minimum amt of time she should nurse/pump they told her 3-6 mo.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

Yes, EPing is a great suggestion for some people's circumstances.

I've even known people who found child care where the child could nurse from another mother, another good suggestion depending on the needs of the family. I also think pumping is a potential solution for women who are just really finding it challenging to BF in certain public situations.

The only think I would say about suggesting EPing is that it is a challenge, like many things, but I think suggesting it also shows support for the women who do it! Suggesting it bumps EPing up to a valid and admirable choice over ABM rather than leaving it in some sort of "radical" or martyr category. Not that I don't think EPers are radical, I do, it's just that if it remains in that category, fewer women will consider it and also the EPers will get less support from the mainstream.

So, yea, suggest it just like you would suggest other options like HB, CLW, CS...

[Wildcrafter]

I think it can be a great alternative to formula feeding and in special circumstances. But to me, bf'g is so much about the bonding and nurturing. Mother's might miss out on all this and babes too.

Mary

[polka hop]

*

[Rainbow]

My SIL intends to keep working and do this whenever she has kids, I think though that she'll be suprised at the level of attachment she'll have to her child and nurse. but if not- if she does EP and nothing else I might feel sad that she'll only experience a machine and not the child at her breast- but I will feel happy and proud that she is working so hard to give her child nature's best.

[mirlee]

I think that whatever way the child gets his or her mamma's milk is great. I know someone who did that for all three of her girls. She did try to nurse, but wasn't able to get good latches. I think she also had a lot of stress provided by her spouse, so that didn't make things very easy.

I think as mother's who have successfully nursed, we should be as supportive as we can of mother's who choose this route or need to do this for any other reason. They aren't jumping on the formula bandwagon, and for that, they deserve our respect and admiration. As someone who pumped at work and nursed, pumping isn't easy sometimes. I dreaded pumping because I felt it was so much more difficult than just nursing.

[loving-my-babies]

I think EPing is wonderful, but the mamas are missing out on the wonderful ACT of nursing. babies are too. but ofcourse, if the mama can't nurse, EPing is the next best thing! I congratulate all pumping mamas because it's not easy!

[SaraJ]

I think its great on one hand, in that they will get at least some BM instead of formula. On the other hand EP is a lot more work than straigh BF or FF, so they are in general probably going to wean earlier.

[ShadowMom]

I think EP is something I would only encourage a mama to do if she had exhausted the possibility of nursing normally. The reason is because pumping is very grueling work (especially exclusively pumping!). It is really hard to stick to it, and it separates you from your family and baby. It can be a lonely thing to do. I have the UTMOST respect for women who EP because it is so hard to stick with it!

So, in my opinion, it is best to encourage women to nurse as much as possible, and only use EP as an option if they are pretty determined to give mamma's milk to their baby and nursing isn't working out at all.

I think that, unless a woman had serious body issues, most moms who would choose formula over the "weirdness" of bf'ing would not stick with exclusively pumping. It is just too much of a committment (if you won't suck up and bf even though it seems kinda weird, you probably won't devote endless hours to pumping). I'm sure there are exceptions to that, though.

I also agree with a previous poster that women who exclusively pump are going to tend to wean much sooner. If you're nursing a 12 month old and they really don't want to stop, you probably will continue nursing them because it's not a big bother usually and you have that nursing relationship you enjoy. But if a 12 month old wanted to continue having bottles at night, that's less of a connection with you and more just a dependency on a bottle, so I think a mom would be far less likely to continue pumping just for that reason.

And, since it is so extremely grueling, I think very few moms probably pump for a full 12 months. I imagine if they did a study on weaning age moms who EP probably wean quite a bit sooner. And who can blame them!!!

Just some thoughts.

[wednesday]

I think it's a shame for mama and baby when the choice is made to EP in advance of any attempts at nursing...when I have heard of expectant moms wanting to do this, it has always been framed as a compromise with a husband who doesn't want the mom to nurse. Honestly I see it as the equivalent of choosing elective C-section to keep the vagina "unchanged" for the husband's benefit...it really offends me from a feminist perspective. Women's bodies were designed to grow, birth, feed, and nurture our babies and I think it's illustrative of how messed up our society is that some women would want to physically remove themseves from part of that relationship. There is also the matter that it is difficult to maintain supply while EP-ing, and difficult to keep up with all the work while still tending to the baby's other needs. So I think the baby ends up being short-changed in several important ways--the bonding aspect of direct breastfeeding, the length of the breastfeeding relationship, and having to wait for other needs to be met while mama is pumping.

That said, I have nothing but ENORMOUS ADMIRATION for women who choose to EP after experiencing breastfeeding difficulties, and boy did I ever come close to being one of them myself.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

I’ve never heard of a father preferring pumping over nursing? Has anyone had first hand knowledge of why this would be? I mean, if they’re pumping ,the breasts are still “functional” , “altered” and “occupied” right? I don’t get it – not that I’d support it anyway. I’m just perplexed.

Oh, I guess, the father might want free time with the mother to date and stuff or, ideally, the father wants to participate with feeding and nurturing the child.

[Mrs Dimples]

Ha, I ALWAYS have to chime in on these threads, lol. There's a few of us, and I feel like we have to make our voices heard on these issues since we have a unique perspective. I actually had a friend choose to EP. She did nurse her son for a couple of weeks, but she had a lot of pain, probably from an imperfect latch, plus her son was born with a sucking reflex like a Hoover. When I went to visit them in the hospital after his birth, he had a paci in his mouth and I literally could not have pulled it out, lol. What I would have given for that! Anyway...basically, she does have some "modesty"/body issues, and so in the face of very normal difficulties she decided it would be easier just to pump, since she was never comfortable with the idea of nursing anyway, ESP. in public. I think she would have done a LOT of pumping even if she had kept up nursing too. She did it because she wanted her baby to have some breastmilk, and also to save money. Her baby is seven months old now and she has just returned her pump. She has been weaning off it for the last month and a half. She figured that he's had enough BM, and since he's eating more solids now he isn't taking in as much BM/formula so she figured it would be less expensive to FF vs. renting the pump. This was truly her reasoning. I am not knocking her for stopping after 6 months, I am frankly surprised that she kept it up that long and I am very proud of her. I did not expect her to be able to do it as long as she did. As for encouraging mothers to EP without trying nursing first, in most cases I do not think that is a good idea. Some women really do not have any problems nursing - I find that hard to believe given my experience, but I know it is true. Some women just hook up and go, and if it's that easy then I can't fathom not even trying it at least once. If a mama is ADAMANT about not nursing, then I would absolutely offer EPing as it is 1000% better than FF. It's alot of work, but you would be surprised how receptive some people are to the idea. It is appealing to be able to feed your baby for (nearly) free. Plus you get a yummy-smelling breastfed baby, no staining spit-up, less chance of "colic" or "gas" (moms who would otherwise FF, IME, find these to be swaying arguments). Plus, if you are lactating, the door is open. Basically, I guess my stand is that if there is any openness at all to nursing, I would encourage a mama in that direction, then offer EP only if she were ready to quit. If she were not willing to even try nursing at all, then I would absolutely try to persuade her to EP. BM is ALWAYS better than formula, providing normal medical circumstances of course. Even a little BM is better than none. I think it is absolutely tragic and it breaks my heart that a woman could have been shaped in such a way that she could give birth to a baby and then refuse to put it to her breast. I wish to God that no woman would ever feel that way. But if some do, then I would hope they could at least be persuaded to give their babies breastmilk, some way, some how.

[wednesday]

Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama

I’ve never heard of a father preferring pumping over nursing? Has anyone had first hand knowledge of why this would be?

In the cases I am aware of (more than one), it was not that the father was insisting on pumping--it was more that the father was insisting on bottle-feeding and the mom was trying to compromise by offering to pump instead of nursing. It sounded controlling and awful to me, quite frankly, but how do you express that constructively to a woman 7 months pregnant with that man's baby?

And yes, the breasts would still be "occupied" but the moms were offering to do it out of sight of the husbands and there's also the fact that until you're doing it you really have no notion of how time-consuming it is.

[IdentityCrisisMama]

No doubt that people can be strange. Always makes me wonder what thinkgs cause it, YK?

[stafl]

Exclusive pumping is so hard! I had to do it when my first DD was unable to nurse. Any woman strong enough to do it and stick with it has my support and admiration 100%
I felt so relieved when DD started nursing and I could finally return my rental pump!

I try not to start conversations about infant feeding. But if someone brings the subject up, I will usually tell them about how hard I worked to nurse my first and that it was worth all the effort. Then I tell them how easy it was with my second DD. If they ask for my advice, I give it to them straight, based on my own experiences.

[buttercup]

Originally Posted by KristiMetz

I think that, unless a woman had serious body issues, most moms who would choose formula over the "weirdness" of bf'ing would not stick with exclusively pumping. It is just too much of a committment (if you won't suck up and bf even though it seems kinda weird, you probably won't devote endless hours to pumping). I'm sure there are exceptions to that, though.

I also agree with a previous poster that women who exclusively pump are going to tend to wean much sooner. If you're nursing a 12 month old and they really don't want to stop, you probably will continue nursing them because it's not a big bother usually and you have that nursing relationship you enjoy. But if a 12 month old wanted to continue having bottles at night, that's less of a connection with you and more just a dependency on a bottle, so I think a mom would be far less likely to continue pumping just for that reason.

And, since it is so extremely grueling, I think very few moms probably pump for a full 12 months. I imagine if they did a study on weaning age moms who EP probably wean quite a bit sooner. And who can blame them!!!

Just some thoughts.

Those are some good thoughts.

You did bring up a good point about the bottles and how long the mother would continue to EP, however, I have found that mothers that do successfully EP past a couple of months will continue to EP. But there is a distinction in the types of EPers - those who were unsuccessful at nursing and are providing MM so their babies don't loose out on the benefits and those who know they do not want to nurse and EP so their babies can receive BM. The first set of EPers have a strong emotional commitment to EPing because most inf not all feel like FAILURES (we know they are not) because they could not get their babies to latch so they are doing everything in their power to give their babies the best...it is almost like they simulate nursing...they hold their babies very close when they nurse them via bottle. The second set of EPers are still providing their babies the best nutrition, but their views of bf are different.

I agree that a mother should do everything in her power to nurse first before choosing to EP, however, what if you were to convince a mother to try EP out after yuou informed her about all the benefits of MM? What if you opened her up to a new group of friends and support system that comes w/ providing MM to her baby? Even if she only does it for 4 weeks, at least that is 4 weeks of MM her baby received that the baby probably would not have recieved had the mother just chose FF since day 1.

Granted EP is very tough, but like most things it does become easier over time, depending on the mother's situation and her dedication. W/ all my struggles trying to get my dd to latch, I found EPing so much better because our attempted nursing sessions were so terrible.

Thanks.

Jenni
EPing for Helon 2 yrs and Phillip 6 mos

[Laurel]

I only know of one person who falls into this category and that is my sil. Actually, her first choice is to ff, but she can't afford it. She has told me several times that she would be much happier just to pump so she wouldn't have to nurse. She has big struggles with low supply and can't get much with the pump. Actually, she told me last weekend that she has gone to ff because she couldn't keep up her milk supply. In most cases I would give the benefit of the doubt, but I know her well enough and I really think she wanted an excuse to not have to nurse. She does things that are bound to ruin her supply.

Anyway, I know that she hates nursing because she is not a touchy-feely person and just hates the physical contact and the feeling of being tied down. It does make me sad because her parenting style is very opposite of AP and I would love to see her children get the benefits of at least the warmth and contact that nursing would provide them since they are pushed to early independence in so many other ways.

I am also envious because I spent five months trying (unsuccessfully) to induce lactation to feed my son, and I just wonder sometimes why the ability to nurse was given to someone who didn't want it when I would give anything to nurse and can't.

I do have to say that I think in general she is a good mother. It took me a long time to see this, and it wasn't until we were moving and lived with them for a month that I saw that she does love her children and has other ways in which she shows it. We will never see eye to eye on parenting issues, but I was able to see her in a more well-rounded way.

[Icequeen_in_ak]

I think very highly of any mother that gets her baby breastmilk... no matter how it gets to them.

[Meiri]

I don't understand why a woman would Choose to do this if she didn't need to.

It's a great way to get humanmilk into your baby when there are problems (including past abuse or other emotional issues) preventing direct nursing, and yes those moms are still breastfeeding IMO, but why would someone CHOOSE to breastfeed in two steps when they are capable of doing so in one?