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Are young children sexual?  

post #1 of 21
7/14/04 at 6:28pm
Thread Starter 
TIO…


DC does some things that are NOT sexual but if and adult was doing the same thing, it could definitely be interpreted as sexual.

DD is very interested in penises. I consider this to be a non-sexual curiosity. She also likes to be naked and loves to cuddle.

I don’t think she is sexual but I’ve read lots of posts that seem to relate sexuality (adult) with children’s behavior. I find this odd.

Does anyone have any idea what I’m talking about?
post #2 of 21
7/14/04 at 6:44pm
My daughter touches herself the instant her pants come off, and won't stop until they go back on. She also has curiousity about nude bodies and she asks to look when I'm undressing for the shower. It may be 'sexual' insomuch as it involves sexual organs, but it's purely innocent as far as I'm concerned.
post #3 of 21
7/14/04 at 6:53pm
Thread Starter 
Yea, that’s what I’m talking about. It makes me somewhat uncomfortable if I feel that we can’t look upon children w/o attributing our adult sexuality.
post #4 of 21
7/14/04 at 7:22pm
That depends on how you define "sexual", but I will give you a qualified yes, they most assuredly are, though in a very different way from adults.
post #5 of 21
7/14/04 at 8:18pm
I believe they definitely are but as others have said not in the way we think of it as adults. My daughter went through a phase around 2 (I think is when it started) and lasted until about 5 (I think is when it didn't seem to be happening anymore) where I would sometimes find her quietly laying across something (i.e., the corner of the dining room table!) so that it was pressing on her vulva, with her legs quivering! We usually let it go because it wasn't too overt or too often -- and only at home that I'm aware of-- but sometimes I did tell her calmly to get down. I wondered if I should try talking to her about it more but never did. At night when we read she strokes her genitals sometimes. I think she's fascinated by the sensation. I don't want to interfere and mess with this in the wrong way. I've just told her not to touch her genitals in front of people. Natalie Angier's book "Woman" talks about female hormone surges as early as 2 (maybe earlier) and that they wax and wane as the child grows, and then hit a whole 'nother pitch at puberty. Now she's six and I can't remember the last time I saw her 'mounted' on something!
post #6 of 21
7/14/04 at 9:47pm
Yes, definately. Not sexual as in two people coming together for pleasure, but self stimulation is very natural for human beings of all ages.

My dd started rubbing herself against my hip, the strap of her stroller and high chair, etc. at 10 months old. Later she would do it on the corners of things like the coffee table and chairs. I took her to the ped a couple times to rule out yeast infections and so on. At 3.5 she still likes to rub herself. When she's having a stressful day she'll do it ALL day long and I have to work hard to distract her and to direct her to do it in her room.

She's being evaluated by a child psych right now, who assures me that it's very normal, nothing to be concerned about at this point. Some kids are more sensitive to physical feelings than others and once it's learned, you should just try to get them to understand that it's private and should be done in a private place.

As far as the other things you describe, my dd loves me to spoon her still, loves to be naked, is very curious about daddy because he's different than she is (dh tries to be discreet but sometimes she'll come in during a shower or whatever). Dd kisses me on the lips and I'm trying to direct her to my cheek. It's all very innocent.

BTW I had a talk with my dd about her rubbing habit once. I asked if it hurt or itched. She said, "No, it feels good. It tickles." Thus removing all doubt as to what exactly she's doing. lol!

Darshani
post #7 of 21
7/14/04 at 11:24pm
I think children are sexual beings, but it is different from adult sexuality and is very innocent and abstract. They have a "sexual life" but it is more based on their sensual experience of the world.I guess it would be similar to the way I view birth and breastfeeding as having sexual components (you may want to read Sheila Kitzinger's books before you flame me), while being generally separate from adult sexuality.
post #8 of 21
7/15/04 at 7:55am
I'm glad I saw this thread. Here lately dd has been touching herself all the time, even removing her diaper to do so. I haven't reacted, but I have wondered. I figured it was normal since I believe her upbringing so far is pretty normal and I knew also that she didn't have any yeast infections or the like. But it's interesting to hear the 2-5 year thing.
post #9 of 21
7/15/04 at 10:31am
Great answers from everybody. ITA with eilonwy, farmer mama, etc...
post #10 of 21
7/15/04 at 11:26am
Thread Starter 
Thanks everyone. You addressed one of the issues I was thinking about but I would really like to hear how you feel about adults projecting “adult sexuality” onto children.

For instance, DC dances like and wild adult - it's SO cute! IMO, her dancing is not sexual but if she were and adult it would be. Do you know what I mean?

So, if someone saw her dancing, they might think it is terrible how a young child is acting sexy. I actually think this is their issue – that they can not remove their own sexuality from my child.

I’m having a hard time articulating this. Does anyone know what I mean? I feel like I’ve heard or seen this done quite a few times.

I don’t know if this relates but I saw a young girl out recently in lipstick. My first thought was that it seemed “wrong” somehow. Then I started thinking about it more. I allow DC to pretend play (obviously). She is mostly interested in acting our real life, cooking, cleaning, taking care of her babies and etc. Now, I don’t wear make-up but if I did, DC wanting to try it would be absolutely no different than her wanting to take her baby out for a walk.
When I saw that little girl with the lipstick, *I* was applying what lipstick means to me onto that child.
post #11 of 21
7/15/04 at 12:04pm
IME, yes. Not in the adult sense though. Children have feelings in their genitals, and they know that it feels good to touch them. We as adults have to teach them what is appropriate in our society. When it is ok to touch yourself, and to let them know it is up to them to decide who touches their bodies.

I remember having orgasmic feelings as a child when masturbating. I did alot of sexual experimentation with neighbor boys. I have no idea where i got it from, but the ideas were there in our heads. I was definately no molested in any way.

my .02!
post #12 of 21
7/15/04 at 1:55pm
I will give a little info here about myself. I distinctly recall touching myself when I was taking naps - I don't know when it started, but recall it through naptime at daycare so probably from the 3-7 year range. The main reason I remember it (I've never shared this before) is that one boy said - "Your hand smells funny" and I knew why and that was the first time I was a little embarassed that I did this. However, I never did this in a "sexual" way. I just remember that, that is how I went to sleep and I wasn't aroused, but I suppose it was somehow relaxing - or maybe out of habit - who knows. Anyway, I don't remember when I stopped, but I did and don't remember doing that again.

I read "The Emotional Life of the Toddler" recently after seeing it mentioned on this board (pro-AP) and it talks about toddlers discovering the their bodies and discovering the differences in the sexes and that this is fascinating (and can be scarey when boys think a girls penis has fallen off).

Janna
post #13 of 21
7/15/04 at 2:11pm
ICM, I think you are right, and I think it is a serious issue we deal with in our society, which is already pretty repressive sexually. I think adults can't help but project their own mature sexuality onto situations they observe. After all, it's easiest to evaluate situations based on our own filters/prejudices/cultural views etc..it's harder to "see through the eyes of others" especially children.

I think adults might look at, say, a child sticking their hands in their vagina (or someone else's) and think "wow, very sexual, where did they get that?" but then kids stick their hands in their noses and mouths all the time, and probably in some cases this is just further exploration of the body.
post #14 of 21
7/15/04 at 2:24pm
I remember have a sexual dream very early on. I was younger than 4, because of the house I was living in at the time. I think I was around two. I remember touching myself when I was younger, and I was taught immediately that it was wrong, because I would hide to do it, and my mom would hunt me down and make me stop. I never saw and adult male nude til I was 9, and that was a picture in a book about the birds and the bees. Not a real person til I was 17, and with my first boyfriend. I saw my baby brother, but never thought about him in a sexual way (ew!), however the differences fascinated me (he was born when I was 7). So, yes, I totally believe children are sexual. I want to teach my kids that it's ok to be sexual. I don't want to stifle their impulses, but teach them the appropriate time and place to do things. I'm a lil worried about any girls we have seeing their father nude though, as I've never dealt with that. Though I want nudity to continue around the house, as it's very comfy. But that's really off topic here.
post #15 of 21
7/15/04 at 4:12pm
I think because we are rather uncomfortable with adult sexually we want our children to be sexually "innocent." We want this fantasy of pre-sexuality. But in truth children are sexual beings. Their sexuality isn't at all like adult sexuality, but touching themselves and thier friends is more than "just" "exploring" or "curiosity." Just we don't have words for it. I like "sensuality" because it is a divorced from adult sexuality.

According to most phychanalytic theories, babies through 5 year olds are "polymorphously sexual" meaning that they don't have a love "object" re gender and that their erongenous zones are less developed than adults. Then there is a latent period from 5-8 when they are quite asexual and then sexuality re-emerges in pre-adolecence, and, at that time, it more resembles adult sexuality (though, of course, it isn't) in terms of pleasure being concentrated in genital areas and in terms of there being definite love objects re opposite or same sex gender.

I never went through a latent phases and remember having quite weird sexual fantasies when I was going to sleep as young as 6 years old (I'd imagine a beautiful nude adult women with a snake crawling over her and definately got off on it though I don't remember touching myself, it was all in my head). Now I am heterosexual and consider this just my childhood poly-sexuality. I was never abused and my parents were very free with sexuality (when I'd touch myself as a toddler they'd just tell me it was "private" and I could go to my room). I think I remember so well because I was told there was nothing wrong with my childhood sexuality, so I didn't supress when I got a little older. Though interestingly, I still had shame connected to these fantacies and thought of them as "bad dreams" (they did tend toward the sadomasochistic)

So I think adults err in both ways. Both by projecting adult sexuality on kids ("if she touches herself or touches her same-age friend, then she is feeling what I feel when I touch myself/DH, and she is too young for that so she needs to stop") or she is a child and so not sexual at all ("her touching herself is like me rubbing my feet - it feels good but it isn't sexual").

It is more complicated. Amazing what complicated, emotional, intelligent, sexual creatures even babies are . . .
post #16 of 21
7/17/04 at 4:04pm
Interesting thread.

Two questions:

Someone mentioned the fact that we as adults project our sexuality onto what children do, but do you think they should just 'express themselves' -or copy adult sexual behaviour - freely.
I know a mom whose 5yo daughter has been dressed like Britney Spears (to give you the picture) since she was 3. And I think it is so sad. Am I too judgemental?

Next question: If you discovered that your 6yo has been 'explored' by a 9 yo, would you just say it is their sexuality. I agree that children get pleasures of touching themselves and they are curious, but don't you want to protect your children? Or is that impossible? I had this experience a couple of years ago with my oldest, and I felt he was exploited, I was really sad, and tried to talk to him about not obeying others blindly and not breaking the physical borders of others either. Maybe I am too inhibited? How would you react in such a situation?
post #17 of 21
7/17/04 at 4:47pm
I really think there's something to the concept of a latent period. I distinctly remember sexual feelings as young as two, but then I don't have any memories of sexual feelings until the age of 9. I do remember when my mom had a conversation with me about certain parts of my body that were private, at about the age of 4, and I do remember having sexual feelings around that age, but they stopped when I went into first grade, I think.

As far as children exploring their sexuality with one another, I don't think it should be encouraged, but I know that it will prolly happen at one point or another. I do think children should be encouraged to explore their bodies and sexuality alone. And I would be available for any questions, no matter how out there they were. As for the 5 year old girl, I think that's a case of projecting adult sexuality, and I do think it's sad. But I bet the mom just wants her daughter to be fashionable. I know moms like that.
post #18 of 21
7/17/04 at 6:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopingtobe
Someone mentioned the fact that we as adults project our sexuality onto what children do, but do you think they should just 'express themselves' -or copy adult sexual behaviour - freely.
I don’t think I understand this question. Could you elaborate?

As far as the young girl goes, yes, I would probably be bothered if I saw a young girl dressed to look sexy. This is different, IMO, than a child dressing herself in a way that *adults* projected sexuality on to. I could give an example if necessary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hopingtobe
Next question: If you discovered that your 6yo has been 'explored' by a 9 yo, would you just say it is their sexuality. I agree that children get pleasures of touching themselves and they are curious, but don't you want to protect your children? Or is that impossible? I had this experience a couple of years ago with my oldest, and I felt he was exploited, I was really sad, and tried to talk to him about not obeying others blindly and not breaking the physical borders of others either. Maybe I am too inhibited? How would you react in such a situation?
Yes, obviously, I want to protect children. I’m reading Protecting the Gift right now and do quite a bit of research on my own about how to best protect my child. And, I believe it is possible to protect them.

I do think that it is entirely likely that a child’s peer can abuse them sexually. I also think it’s possible for there to be some harmless exploration between children.

Are you saying that your child was exploited by another older child? I’m very sorry. I don’t have any idea how I would have reacted. It sounds like what you said was good – That they have boundaries and they are free to protect them.

There are many people at MDC much more qualified to give advice on recovering from and preventing future abuse and the book I’m reading is excellent so far. Hugs and take care.
post #19 of 21
7/17/04 at 9:17pm
Identitycrisismama, that book sounds interesting. The situation with my son was very shocking, but I was sooo proud of how he handled it and that he was able to come and tell me about it.

The girl and the 'express themselves'.
I totally agree with you about the makeup and dress up, etc. My boys sometimes dress up in my clothes and makeup, although they prefer to dress up as warriors or knights.
But this mom I know with the dressed-up daughter uses this as a reasoning, that her girl isn't dressed sexy, it is just other people's projection. But the girl is wearing miniskirts in winter, knee-lenght boots and mini-tops. I totally agree with you that we should allow children to develop and explore, but I also think it is sad that our culture is so focused on sex that we even dress very young girls as 'pretty women'.

I think there is a fine line between accepting and allowing our children's natural development and protecting them from being exploited or getting lost in the middle of this development.

love and respect
post #20 of 21
7/18/04 at 11:51am
Since my last post I have been thinking about my attitude to how girls are dressed. Maybe I need to change my attitude. Maybe I am just out of tune with girls fashion (all boys mama ).
I guess I am a modest type, but it is of course non of my business how other people dress, or how they dress their children.

love and respect
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