Local Parents Arrested - Page 2

[mamawanabe]

I was hoping this conversation would go more in the direction of "what would you do" rather than debating the validity of the situation or mental health of the parents.

So, you are asking, "if you practiced TCS in its purest form (though we all know that it is very rare for any parenting philosophy to be practiced in a pure form, including AP), and your child refused to go to th dentist despite a serious pain/mouth problem and despite DFS threats to put the child in foster care and arrest you for neglect, what woudl you do?"

Well, as I and several posters said above, I'd deal with the underlying reasons (most likely mental) behind the child's resistance to going to the dentist or I'd break with the philosophy in this instance.

[Greaseball]

To me, TCS is believing that children have valid reasons for their decisions and actions. Did anyone ask the boy WHY he did not want to go to the dentist? Maybe the treatment would have been painful - use plenty of drugs. (People often believe children don't feel pain, or that pain builds character, so they do not use enough pain meds on children. Maybe the dentist is a jerk like that.) Maybe the dentist molested the boy and now he is afraid of dentists. Maybe the office has a stupid policy that parents cannot accompany their child, and this boy wants his mother there. Maybe it's boring at the dentist, and they could provide movies or headphones.

But I doubt they will try to find out about any of this.

[iris0110]

Hmm... this one really is rough. I am not TCS although I do try to make things as agreeable for Ds as possible. Honestly in a position where I knew my child was in real danger from not getting medical treatment that they needed I would have to say that I would break with my parenting phylosophy to ensure his safety. In this case I would probably try to find the underlying source of the problem, but when it made it to this extreme (I would have intervened at the first noticeable cavities) I would force my child to go to the dentist. Some things in life just can't be negotiated.

Now I do draw the line at CPS stepping in. In medical cases this makes me really uncomfortable because I am always worried about what comes next. I am waiting for CPS to knock on my door and say they are taking custody of my child because I refuse to vax, and to them that is medical neglect. However in this case it is obvious that this boy needs help that the parents are refusing for whatever reason to provide. I will always defend a parent's right to make decisions for their child, but at this extreme it does become down right neglectful. I don't like the idea of supporting CPS's actions, but in this case it does seem like the lesser of two evils. I dont' care what parenting phylosophy you follow, it is your responsibility as a parent to ensure that your child is taken care of. In this case the parents simply weren't acting in their childs best interest. I am afraid that I have to say that forcing him to go to the dentist early would be alot less scarring than the pain he is now experiencing, and which I am afraid he will be experiencing for quite some time. And I hate to say it, but if his parents refuse to change their ways, then in this case I think the child, and maybe all of his siblings are better off in CPS custody. (OH my God I can't believe I just typed that. : )

[eilonwy]

I do lean towards TCS fairly heavily, and I have to say that if this was my child I'd have explained the benefits of dental health long before it got that severe. He's eleven years old, for crying out loud! My seven year old niece can list a dozen reasons why taking good care of your teeth makes sense. If, after being made fully aware of the benefits of timely dental care and the drawbacks of not recieving said care they still refused to see the dentist, I'd try to find out why. If there was no logical reason behind it, and no sign of a change of heart in sight, then I'd ask them to come up with their own plan for dental well-being. Taking care of one's own body is something that everyone in the family must do, for the well being not only of the self but of the family. An eleven year old is more than old enough to be expected to make reasonable, responsible choices regarding their health care (IMHO).

[Greaseball]

My basic feeling is that if there is some reason a child does not want to go to the dentist, there are things a parent can do to sweeten the deal for him. Find out why he doesn't want to go and deal with that issue. I used to hate going to the dentist until I found one who was willing to practice MY WAY - meaning, lots of drugs! Of course this means I have to pay out of pocket but it's worth it to me and now I no longer fear the dentist - I go twice a year like you're supposed to!

But if someone was trying to force me to have dental care THEIR WAY, I would not go.

[PM]

I agree that if you have spent a good deal of time talking about the benefits of dental care there wouldn't be much resistence on behalf of the child. My daughter cried when I had told her we would go to the dentist because there was a black mark on one of her molars and then we didn't go. I was finally able to brush it off. She wanted to go and take care of it because she knows it's important. And she had confidence that I would be there with her - and that if I tell her the dentist is gentle then I mean it. Trust is a major issue here, IMO.

Just because a parent says he/she does TCS doesn't mean they aren't parenting on auto-pilot (no introspection, no questioning) like many other parents.

[PM]

I should explain better what I would do.

"Dd, we are going to go to the dentist because you have a problem with one of your teeth. The dentist is going to look at it and tell me if she thinks there is a problem. If there is, she will do xyz." (note: I don't ask, "Honey, do you want to go the dentist for that?")

In the case of this boy I would add, "...and it may hurt, but I will be there to comfort you."

In my dd's case, there would probably not be a lot of resistence because a) we have discussed things like this b) she has been allowed to participate in my world, so she has been to my doctors and talked to them and seen what goes on.

If there were resistence, I would try to understand why. By delving a bit I could probably understand the underlying fear. I would find a solution that was OK for both of us (common preference). She would still go, but she would go willingly, I'm sure. If she just would not agree to go, I would take her and try to make it as pleasant an experience possible. But I would never trick her into going or trick her into doing anything ("We'll just go and she'll look" doesn't turn into "Well, we're here we might as well...") or trick her into thinking dentists are all great and nothing hurts.

I think there is a big problem if a family is spending a significant amount of time negotiating. I don't ask, "Hey, you want to go grocery shopping?" I say, "Hey, we're going grocery shopping!" Then, if there is major resistence I try to understand why, examine my priorities, etc. A bit of "I don wanna" or feet-dragging does not stop me if she is still moving towards the car, KWIM? Like this morning with my dd. She kind of grumbled about going shopping. But then she asked if she could bring along her toy eagle, and ended up playing happily on the way and never complained again.

[boysrus]

Ok, I havent read all the responses yet, but I want to comment on something. Quite a few people have said that the boy would be in quite a it of pain, threfore would want to seek medical help. I hink that is a huge assumption. I know so many adults who are absolutely terrified of the dentist. I know an older man who has cancer and REFUSES to seek medical treatment. when the pain gets reall really severe, he will go to the clinic and get some pain meds, or a shot. Then leaves. He has had cancer since 1996, cannot see well, cannot walk. The cancer is in many places in his body, yet he continues to live. I would thin the noncoercive response to a person like that would be to let him not go to the doc except for pain meds, right? So, wouldnt that be the ncp method as well?

[eilonwy]

Originally Posted by boysrus

I would thin the noncoercive response to a person like that would be to let him not go to the doc except for pain meds, right? So, wouldnt that be the ncp method as well?

The problem with this argument is that it would assume that the child was coerced in the past, as the man you bring up most likely was. People don't just randomly decide not to get treatment for severe illness, there's a *reason* behind it. As a parent, it's your responsibility to help your child work through these reasons so that they can get help when they need it. Adhering to TCS philosophy doesn't make you exempt from parental responsibilities. That's why it didn't sound to me like this family was actually doing TCS in the first place. (Does this make any sense? I'm kinda hungry...)

[Piglet68]

very well said, eilonwy. that is what I was trying to say in my last post.

it's the parents job to help the child work through any fears that are causing him to live in pain...it's not enough to just say "okay, honey, if that's what you want". That's enabling, not parenting.