WWYD? FIL & DD issues- porn & possible abuse of DN - Page 2

[girlzmommy00]

I agree to go with your gut on this one. I don't think this is a time for compromises. I think that you are better off avoiding FIL completely. Even though you could intend to be with the children the entire time you were around FIL, you never know what could come up that could take you away from the children. I wouldn't be willing to take that chance.

I don't want to come across as being harsh, but I think that this is one time that the needs of your children need to come before the needs of your DH. Personally, I'd rather have DH mad at me than something happen to one of my children.

[wombat]

Originally Posted by Faith

So, DH now is like-- Why did I give my parents chances over and over, even when they hurt DS and lied to us, and I am willing to only give his dad one chance? DH wanted to stop it right away, and it is my fault he didin't.

I guess that's fair enough if dh brings that up - all you can tell him is you've learnt since then. Just because you made mistakes with your parents doesn't mean you have to repeat them with dh's parents. It's not a matter of being "fair" to dh's parents, it's a matter of protecting dh's son.

Originally Posted by Faith

I mean, tell me if these are not warning signs when they all happen together-
1) uncontrollable porn habit (even in front of kids)
2) *weird* porn (violence/rape, animals, lactation, young girls, etc.)
3) sleeps in same bed alone with 3 year old girl who is being molested by someone, as confirmed by DCFS
4) general 'creepy old man' vibe since the day I met him
5) known liar
He is not exactly the type of Grandpa who buys ice cream and takes the DC to the park. He is rather absent or withdrawn, or going off alone to smoke.

ITA. I don't think you're overreacting because of your past or anything. You sound like you've assessed this situation very well. I'd be especially concerned by your points 1) and 3). And also the fact that he doesn't have a normal family attachment to the grandchildren - it'd make it easier to abuse the grandchildren if he sees them as objects rather than as people.

Re point 3) - is DN still seeing a therapist? DCFS? I'd be mentioning your concerns about FIL sleeping with DN. It's not beyond reason that both her bio father and your FIL abused her. In fact it's more likely cause she's already been 'groomed' probably. Even if FIL didn't abuse her, it's not appropriate for him to sleep with her.

Your opinions of FIL must be well known in the family so why not just make it clear that you'll have nothing to do with him and ask MIL and SIL not to put you or your family in a position where you'll run into him. Surely that can't be too hard - given he's not especially concerned with his grandchildren anyhow.

[Faith]

Thanks for helping me with this, everyone.

I have read both Gavin De Beker books by the way, just in the past few weeks.

Well, I have a little more time to think about this now because SIL, MIL, and DN are coming out here ahead of FIL now and he is staying back in IL for a bit longer to settle things up with the house, etc. So that is one good thing. Maybe he won't come at all! (I can hope!)

I really don't know the situation with DN and FIL now since we haven't been around them in almost a year, since we moved here. Soon I will know a lot more, and be able to see DN on a regular basis.

Two things that keep sticking in my head since reading this are that-
It could have been *both* FIL and bio-dad that abused DN. I never thought of that before, but it makes sense all around.
Also, that everyone knows what FIL did and how I feel about it... So it's not like me enforcing boundaries there is going to come as a huge shock or something- maybe it will be easier than I think.

Right now, DH and I really need to talk about it more. It is just hard with him working sooo much, but I will pin him down before FIL arrives. I know whenever I make a big decision that DH doesn't like, in the end I am usually sorry. (I hate that, but it's true.) I kind of think, even if DH is wrong, and FIL is a molester, FIL would never come near my DC with a 20-foot pole, because he knows I am watching him like a hawk, and I think he is a bit intimidated by me since the night I let him have it and printed out the porn for MIL to see, etc. He knows I mean bussiness, am not afraid to publicly call him out, and to do anything to bring attention to the situation. It's not a nice thing to say, but the guy has a lot easier targets than *my* DC at this point. *Anyone* would be a better target, and I think he would realize that.

As for whether it was kiddie-porn, I don't think so. I have seen his porn since the time I was in high school, and the 'young' is just the gross barely-legal girls that look really young. The only good thing about the internet is now his porn is online and 'hidden' and not laying around, yk? Still, that is one reason why we really just have always invited them to our house, and don't go to theirs much at all. I am sure that will stay the same here, and FIL won't want to come to my house of all places...

Anyway, right now I am just considering compromising with DH and letting FIL be around on big occasions in more public places (I'm thinking like 1 or 2x a year in a park or restuarant or something), and flat out telling DC to stay away from him, and having DH pick up the slack by being attached to his dad's hip, while I do the mommy-thing. Or, maybe I will get lucky and FIL will be more than happy to aviod us and just stay home.

[wende]

Has anyone asked DN? I know that's difficult since she is so young and easilly persuaded to believe what others tell her happened, but I'm curious if she's pointed the finger at anyone?

I'm with everyone else. Go with your gut, stick to your guns as much as you can. It must be hard for dh to see his own dad in this light. I mean, I think (and I'm one who may or may not be denying my past, but I honestly can't remember) my father molested me and, while I don't let my children spend time alone with him and we only see him maybe once a year, I still have a hard time believing that he could do something like that, yk?

[moondiapers]

Am I the only one here wondering "where in the hell was grandma while this guy was watching loud deviant porn with his grandkids in the room?" Sounds like she's just as much at fault for that incident.


-Heather

[Faith]

Where was grandma? Good question!
Our house had an open floor plan, with all the rooms coming off the living room. She was in the toy room (she says) with the three DC, while FIL was in the office with the comp. The office has no door, and anyone can see the comp screen the instant they walk in or by. I know she knew because she assured me before she left that day that she had 'kept an eye on him.' (Why would she need to do that?! Unless of course he was doing something and she knew it.)

I don't believe for a second she could have been in the same (SMALL) house with him and not known. I always wonder why she just didn't just take DC outside, on such a beautiful day in our awesome yard. Now I never know what my DC saw. I know they had to have seen some, because when I was on the comp in that house, they constantly ran in and out and wanted to sit on my lap and help me.

I feel so bad for MIL though. Can you imagine being married to a guy like that?! First an abusive alcoholic, now a porn watching, TV 23 hours a day, smoking constantly creep. I know she is in denial about him. I just feel bad for her. After it happened, she came over to help us pack and said to me out of the blue, "You know I'm not going to leave him." and I was suprised she just brought it up and said it like that. (Maybe I am in denial about her! )


About asking DN, only my SIL and MIL have asked her who it was, and she (I guess) told them it was bio-dad. DN was susposed to talk to a detective about it recently, and she refused to open her mouth at all (poor girl!), so bio-dad got his visits back- which is one of the reasons why she is moving out here.

[Aura_Kitten]

studies have shown that people who regularly expose themselves to violent porn are more likely to commit acts of sexual violence and/or to have been victims of such violence themselves.

i was going to bring that up myself. maybe TMI, but i like porn ~ BUT there is a HUGE difference between vanilla porn and really deviant, violent badness. that was the first thing that really stood out to me in the OP ~ that this guy has no problems with watching AND LISTENING TO violent, deviant yuck WITH KIDS AROUND. and where was his wife?? why didn't she stop it? oh yeah, denial. sorry, but in my book that is NO excuse.

i back up that you should go with your gut... and also that you shouldn't let this guy anywhere near your kids. if it were me, i wouldn't even be allowing any communication or contact. this guy is not only creepy but sounds like he has serious issues.

i too seem to remember the other post that was made about this, but i may be just be remembering a similar thread by a different poster.

bottom line: if you feel like the kids aren't safe, assume you're right. it is far better to make that assumption than the opposite and wind up with them violated.

(IMO just the fact that they were exposed to any porn is a violation ~ of trust, and of their innocence and childhood.)

[Piglet68]

Yes, eilonwy and klothos, I agree. I guess I wasn't reading the OP clearly, as I assumed it was just regular type porn, and I personally have no issue with it so I wanted to "defend" it.

However, there are different types of porn. And of course the huge red flags are there - why would anybody watch it in that sort of situation (ie. not at your house, while visiting with the grandkids? yuck!). Plus then he tells his son to delete the internet history file (so obviously he knew what he did was wrong, but ballsy of him to let his son in on it, since it was his son's house!).

Faith, I think you are right about your MIL. Very sad. It seems obvious to me based on her comments that she knows and wants to be in denial about it. I hope you and DH can get together: set a "date" - that's what DH and I do when we have something important to discuss, and we have busy lives, too. Then you'll both be mentally prepared. I hope your DH is willing to honestly help you out - you said something about making sure DH sticks by his Dad's side during family occasions, but honestly unless you believe in your heart that your DH really, truly understands your concerns and shares them....nothing is as good as your own two eyes.

[Bearsmama]

Listen to your GUT. It may be a hard road, but you will be protecting your children. It is tremendously sad to not have "normal" family for your kids, but their well-being superscedes (sp?) this. My heart goes out to you...